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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPeople are furious with the New York Times over their normalised profile of a Nazi
The piece titled A Voice of Hate in America's Heartland focused on 29-year-old Tony Hovater from Ohio, who is described in the piece as a Donald Trump supporter, a "far-right extremist" and a "Nazi sympathizer next door."
Although the article doesn't condone his lifestyle choices, the article has been lambasted for potentially making Hovater's views appear more normal and everyday.
Hovater is a founding member of the Traditionalist Worker Party, one of the groups that were involved in the violent clashes in Charlottesville in August and has also taken part in a "White Lives Matter" rally.
Given the uneasy political climate of 2017 and the rise of racism in America, people have taken exception to the New York Times piece.
[link:https://www.indy100.com/article/new-york-times-people-furious-twitter-nazi-white-nationalist-tony-hovater-ohio-racism-america-8076411|
Buns_of_Fire
(17,181 posts)no_hypocrisy
(46,119 posts)their "values", their priorities. It doesn't mean you endorse or agree with them.
Does anyone remember a Debra Winger/Tom Berrenger movie in the late 80s called Betrayed? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betrayed_(1988_film) It was about an undercover FBI agent going into the American heartland to collect evidence against a RW, white-supremacy group that is suspected of murdering a Jewish radio talkshow host (reminiscent of Alan Berg). http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/talked-to-death-19850131 In the movie, it blends the white supremacist culture with small town frustrations and Christian values. Even Debra Winger got confused and wanted to be released from her assignment.
The Times wasn't "normalizing" Hovater or anyone like him. It was just reporting.
tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)no_hypocrisy
(46,119 posts)Being from a Jewish background, I've spent a lot of time researching the Weimar Republic in Germany (pre-Hitler), the German Depression, the rise of the Third Reich, and the Nazi Years. Some of the most enlightening information came from dissertations that highlighted the ordinary, common Germans who supported Hitler. If you haven't read it yet, I recommend They Thought They Were Free by Milton Mayer. Here's an excerpt: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html
You will see parallels between Germany then and Ohio today.
In order to minimize any spread of influence by people like Tony Hovater, you need to understand what makes them tick and to offer better options to them.
Getting information is not equitable with "normalizing".
Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #5)
tenderfoot This message was self-deleted by its author.
tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)still_one
(92,217 posts)when Obama was President, going out of their way to give a voice to those who said President Obama wasn't a citizen. Is it any wonder why 25% of the populous still believes that President Obama isn't an American?
All through 2016 one needs to ask why the media in general lowered the bar for trump
CNN and others were regularly giving a voice to the extremist views of racists and bigots, which is "legitimizing" those view points. Perhaps the worst example was when CNN had as part of an actual discussion if "Jews were really people":
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a50906/are-jews-people-was-a-real/
It is interesting that CNN and other outlets are now exercising more critique toward trump and his administration that was mostly missing throughout 2016. No doubt some of that is due to trump's characterization of CNN as "fake news", but I think much of it is because they realized they dropped the ball.
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)It's been a number of years since I researched the subject. What reading would you recommend? I'd really appreciate your recommendation.
Hedda
no_hypocrisy
(46,119 posts)to go to my library. It's got a variety of books that helped me better understand what happened.
To get you started, I read 1924: The Year That Made Hitler.
https://www.amazon.com/1924-Year-That-Made-Hitler/dp/0316384038
It came out this year or last year. Well worth the read. (If you wait til 1933 to start the story, it's too late.)
See you later!
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)I'll definitely read it!
no_hypocrisy
(46,119 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 28, 2017, 08:17 AM - Edit history (1)
Hitlerland: American Eyewitnesses to the Nazi Rise to Power
https://www.amazon.com/Hitlerland-American-Eyewitnesses-Nazi-Power/dp/1439191018
They Thought They Were Free
https://www.amazon.com/They-Thought-Were-Free-Germans/dp/0226511928/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511868978&sr=1-2&keywords=they+thought+they+were+free+the+germans+1933-45+milton+mayer
The Nazi Seizure of Power
https://www.amazon.com/Nazi-Seizure-Power-Experience-1922-1945/dp/1626548722/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511869074&sr=1-1&keywords=Nazi+Seizure+of+Power
The Rise and Fall of The Third Reich
https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-Third-Reich-History/dp/1451651686/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1511869143&sr=1-1&keywords=Rise+and+Fall+of+the+Third+Reich
A Brief History of the Birth of the Nazis: How the Freikorps Blazed a Trail for Hitler
https://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-Birth-Nazis-Freikorps/dp/0786713429
The Weimar Republic: The Crisis of Classical Modernity
https://www.amazon.com/Weimar-Republic-Crisis-Classical-Modernity/dp/0809015560
1924: The Year That Made Hitler
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_4?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=1924+the+year+that+made+hitler&sprefix=1924%2Cstripbooks%2C166&crid=2PL8DMR2T19P5
Hitler's Willing Executioners
https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Willing-Executioners-Ordinary-Holocaust/dp/0679772685
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)Great reading list you have there and there are a few books I was unaware of. Understanding what makes Nazis the way they are is becoming increasingly important nowadays. Thanks for the compilation.
no_hypocrisy
(46,119 posts)hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)maxrandb
(15,334 posts)Is look at the Retrumplican party.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)I recommend this article:
...
We need to have more families. We need to be able to just be normal, said Matthew Heimbach, the leader of the Traditionalist Worker Party, in a podcast conversation with Mr. Hovater.
Hey remember how the fucking Nazis are super normal? This is a recruiting technique. You are writing an article that serves a fucking Nazi recruiting goal. It is supremely difficult to write responsibly about fucking Nazis because you have to be aware that anything you write will add to their press clippings. Nazis are so normal is not a responsible storyline when you are quoting fucking Nazis talking about how being normal helps them.
...
The party, Mr. Hovater said, is now approaching 1,000 people. He said that it has held food and school-supply drives in Appalachia. These are people that the establishment doesnt care about, he said.
Here again we have an instance of why you should contextualize the fucking Nazi. Its nice enough that the fucking Nazis are doing charity work, but when you let a fucking Nazi have a national platform you do not then quote the Nazi telling the underprivileged that the fucking Nazis are the people who really care.
...
Sometimes a soul, and its shape, remain obscure to both writer and reader.
I beat myself up about all of this for a while, until I decided that the unfilled hole would have to serve as both feature and defect. What I had were quotidian details, though to be honest, Im not even sure what these add up to.
It added up to an article full of quotidian details. That was it. That was what you had to work with. You could have framed them in a dozen useful ways: Fucking Nazis are making earnest attempts to not look like fucking Nazis, making their recruiting more dangerous. Not all fucking Nazis have a hard-luck backstory and sometimes evil is inexplicable. Some fucking Nazis are cleaning up their language and heres how. Any number of ways you could have gone with that.
Read more at https://wonkette.com/626173/new-york-timess-nazi-profile-was-better-in-original-german#AiM9Bm3ydocp03dL.99
If that's not normalising, what is? The writer has literally compared fascism to a wish to look cool. And they managed to understand the Nazi so little that they call him a "foot-soldier" and the co-founder of a white supremacist party in the same paragraph. But the Nazis had a wedding list, just like normal people ...
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)with a capitalist system that initially relied on the commerce of humans. Racism is "normal" because white people are still in charge largely because we have benefitted from it since the inception of this country. Separating ourselves out and defining white supremacists as a separate group ignores the continuum and the pervasiveness. As well as the nature of white supremacy as a system where white people participate when we don't acknowledge the fact that if we are white we are automatically considered superior.
Your neighbor might read white supremacist literature and cheer nazis on, and still let a person of color cut in front of them in the checkout line. The aggressive white supremacists are not the norm, but they are part of a system of white supremacy that is organic because it has been with us from the start. Abolitionists knew where their cotton came from.
I remember there was a lot of controversy over a professor who invited a white supremacist who would eventually commit a mass murder at a Jewish community center. From what I understand it is something you have to see to believe.
Another striking example is the Vice video that followed a white supremacist who was at Charlotte. I found it chilling to see his sincerity and unquestioning belief that he is doing something good. Meanwhile being able to see that he is probably just an average guy in his community.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)but Nazis and Nazi-lites have gotten more than enough soft coverage in 2017...
And never forget the Times gave more fawning coverage of a Nazi than they ever did for Hillary 2016...
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)Time but with their hiring of conservatives...no sure I will renew.
ismnotwasm
(41,989 posts)I dont give a shit if they grocery shop or have mothers or kids.
blogslut
(38,002 posts)Soph0571
(9,685 posts)paleotn
(17,931 posts)...ummm....the reemergence of racism in America is more apt. Racism never went away. It just feels confident enough now, in a trumpmerica, to come out of the shadows.
Wounded Bear
(58,666 posts)In the US, racism is certainly still extant. It exists almost everywhere, more obvious in some places and some people than others, but it is there. Repubs, with their Southern Strategy have been stoking those fires for many years and the result is now in the White House. If you look at the time line, it is pretty inexorable.
The parallel in Nazi Germany is anti-semitism. It had existed in Europe for centuries, usually supported actively by the Catholic Church. It had softened a bit by the 20th Century, but like American racism it was still bubbling just below the surface. Hitler exploited that to seize power and enact the Holocaust, which may have been the most important item in his agenda when you think about it.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)ban Nazis after fighting a world war to get rid of them.
Who will defend with their lives the right of Nazis to speak freely about their well known genocidal ideas under the tattered, unprotected banner of free speech?
Gothmog
(145,303 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 26, 2017, 06:27 PM - Edit history (1)
alarimer
(16,245 posts)And are, even today. And THAT is what people are missing in all this outrage. Maybe the article wasnt clear. Most people joined the party then because their jobs were at stake or they felt pressured to do so. Only a few were real monsters. Hence, the banality of evil.
90% of Americans THINK they would be part of the Resistance, but they are kidding themselves. They would go along to get along to save their own fucking necks. After all, conservative Republicans are very nearly fascists and their are millions of them.
It is dangerous to assume that every neo Nazi fits the stereotype, with swastika tattoos and shaved heads.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)You can't assume that fascism can't take route among "normal" people. It isn't "normalizing" the beliefs to describe this phenomenon. The most memorable experience for me on a recent trip to Europe was a video at the Documentation Center in Nuremberg. Several elderly people were interviewed about their teenage years in Nuremberg when Hitler was on the rise. It was clear they don't condone what happened. But when they remembered their youth there were smiles on their faces as they described how everyone felt so "together" (gemeinschaft). One woman talked about how wonderful the music was when the parades passed beneath her window, and how her mother flung open the door and offered lodging to out of towners.
It's insidious. It's scary. And we have to look at it clearly, as this article is trying to do.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Who hold toxic beliefs but havent otherwise done anything criminal. Obviously its up to everyone else to challenge those beliefs, but most people find it difficult even within their own families. People tend to self-select and hang out likeminded people.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 27, 2017, 12:01 PM - Edit history (1)
That's why it can never get anywhere near that point, where you have to make a choice between being a Good German and risking your life.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Not necessarily because they agreed, but because their bosses, coworkers or family members were in it. And they were scared (not that I blame them). A lot of other people, farther away from where this was taking place, just shook their heads, but did nothing. That is probably the closest parallel to Nazi Germany we have- the Jim Crow South. Vast majorities of white people benefited from the system or were too scared to do anything about it.
Protests are useful when these folks decide to demonstrate. And I think pushing back against their beliefs when they dare to voice them in private is important. Beyond that, I'm not sure.