I’m saying that no presidential candidate will publicly oppose her on this matter

I don't. And the accused deserve due process.

we tried in 14 to run on this basically.. You remember 2014?

Automatic spelling correction can produce some interesting results.

Gillibrand for one.

“The fact my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed”

If my colleagues wouldn’t afford me the decency of due process I’d feel ashamed too.
Ashamed about how warped the rush to judgement and grandstanding behavior of some.
HE welcomed an investigation and they wouldn’t even grant him that.
That’s not right. You’d think the “worlds most deliberative body “ could have a hearing to sort things out. No one listened to the dozens of women who worked with and for Franken in support of him.
Are they not credible? Their voices don’t count?
Frankly this whole farce and rush to be pious and condemn the man without a hearing is unAmerican.

If you are going to override the will of the voters, at least give the guy a hearing. That's the due process, and he was denied that.

As noted before, Al being the decent person that he is, refused to call these women liars. He padded his words and people twist them against him.

I, as noted before, am not nearly so decent.

They are liars.

Seriously? He explained it all.

It was an AP article


Sen. Al Franken says he will resign over sexual harassment charges, but denies misconduct

He’s ashamed of something that didn’t happen? He actually said this:

“The fact my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed”

Did he say something else that makes you think he’s not taking responsibility?

He explained it all, but you want to play games with his initial response.

It's not honest and I'm not suffering bullshit.

Bye.

He could have been referring solely to the picture that was taken where he was pretending to grope Leanne Tweeden. He didn't deny or excuse that, and he apologized and was forgiven. The problem is that because of the picture, people were more than willing to believe that he was capable of doing more. He has never admitted to doing anything more than that.

ONLY hers, and SPECIFICALLY in reference to the gag photo of his pretending to grope her. Because he SPECIFICALLY disputed her other claim of being forcibly kissed. It is disingenuous of you to take that one line out of the context of the rest of his statement.


Here is Franken's statement in full:

“The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women. There's more I want to say, but the first and most important thing—and if it's the only thing you care to hear, that's fine—is: I'm sorry.

“I respect women. I don't respect men who don't. And the fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed.

“But I want to say something else, too. Over the last few months, all of us—including and especially men who respect women—have been forced to take a good, hard look at our own actions and think (perhaps, shamefully, for the first time) about how those actions have affected women.

“For instance, that picture. I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me.

“Coming from the world of comedy, I've told and written a lot of jokes that I once thought were funny but later came to realize were just plain offensive. But the intentions behind my actions aren't the point at all. It's the impact these jokes had on others that matters. And I'm sorry it's taken me so long to come to terms with that.

“While I don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women’s experiences.

“I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate.

“And the truth is, what people think of me in light of this is far less important than what people think of women who continue to come forward to tell their stories. They deserve to be heard, and believed. And they deserve to know that I am their ally and supporter. I have let them down and am committed to making it up to them.”

... and who made his apology not about himself but about the seriousness of the issue at hand, is being forced out.

I'm still so absolutely pissed that the straw that broke the camel's back was his putting his hand on a histrionic person's fat roll. It's too absurd to be believable... which is life these days.

because of a lynch mob mentality led by Gillibrand and 30 others.

Her aspirations for higher office are over. I can't wait to see her dumped by New York voters. In fact, I would love to see Hillary run against her in a primary.

G has trashed democracy with a McCarthy like action which eliminated due process. She should resign.

He didn’t have to.

We will never know because of the Lynch mob she led.

Maybe he didn't want to put his wife and family through fighting his own party?

There is no excuse for what Gilibrand did and I you think being the leader if Lynch mobs is a winning issue I think you are fooling yourself.

Frankens guilt or innocence is really irrelevant in this .it is the precedent that people should not be allowed to defend themselves when they asked for an investigation that is criminal.

Some will vote for that sort of Justice but judging by the response of the internet most won't.

I'm calling bullshit on "he didn't have to".

I actually am hoping he pulls a "Larry Craig"...

No, not a "wide stance"... rather that he changes mind on plans to resign and shows up for work till 2020....

Has nothing to do with her actions being fascist

What a fucking joke of a thread. Three years from now they won't be talking about Al Franken in a debate.

Dear lord the stupidity.

Gillibrand's positions have been all over the place. Perhaps you should check that out.

The tire tracks leave scars

in the past?

......that those of us angry with her are soft on sexual harassment?

...then it wouldn't be as big an issue as it has been.

I do agree that it's unfair that she's getting the biggest brunt of the anger, but it's also not as though she's got a spotless progressive record or even has a record of consistency on this particular issue.

As I said in another thread it's how she handled this issue, AND that she was a prominent blue dog in the house, AND called out Bill Clinton when previously she had no issues with using his clout and reputation to get Hillary's old Senate seat, AND the fact that as someone who clearly has designs on 2020 had a personal vested interested in tearing down Franken.

And by the same token I think Corey Booker should be getting just as much blowback on here as Gilllibrand is. He has just as many negatives against him in the same way that Gillibrand does.

And saying that no other Democrat will stand on a debate stage and defend Franken's right to due process is less of a net positive for Gillibrand than it is a net negative for the party as a whole and people's concerns that they stand only for the media fueled political expediency of the moment rather than a core set of values.

So yeah, I do think it's unfair that Gillibrand is bearing the lion's share of the rage for something that is a much bigger Democratic party problem.

She led the charge. I think it's eminently fair that she feel the brunt of the criticism.

..honestly I just saw the final list of all the people that were using this to get themselves some of those sweet, sweet "bipartisan" bonafides. But if she was the first.....then yeah.

It sucks to lose Franken, but people are kidding themselves to think that she was the reason he resigned.

She is a conservative democrat, trying to re-cast herself as a progressive. Look at her record.

The whole "recasting" thing has been going on for almost nine years. At some point people may want to start considering the possibility that who she is as a Senator is who she actually is.

gotcha and I agree.

I for one am tired of poll tested opportunists.

It's interesting, though, how it's always strong Democratic women who seem to take the brunt of this board.

Women make bad calls too.

The idea they can't be called on them because they are women is as much nonsense as pretending she has principals because she follows a changing constituency.

That is the thing about principals people tend to stick to them regardless of who they are around.

A leader brings their constituency to them not follows them wherever they go.


That is what leading is the other is opportunistic.

are out doing damage control.

Won't work.

Also, show us actual evidence that Franken ever "harassed or violated" a woman? There is none, and that's going to haunt G forever after.

You forgot the "un".

Are you familiar with the term "Pyrrhic victory"?

I think that's what news people will write of her.

We can use a powerful voice in the Democratic movement

That will really inspire confidence! Every primary voter will think Wow, you can really count on her! (to destroy people's careers based on flimsy allegations if it advances her own career). So principled! (depending on whatever the principle of the moment is).

Yeah, she's on her way to building quite a reputation for herself.

This is moral. This is cultural.

I don't know what Senator Gillibrand will do in the future, but she is standing on the right side of history.

That's where I want to be.

.....

She is a nut and should resign.

EVER. Under ANY circumstances.

that is was a BAD decision that I suspect had very little to do with "harassment"

NO!

Perhaps she will look more acceptable in time, but right now her candidacy would be very harmful to any party unity. And this is not the time to float the idea.

the endorsement from the Clinton's and then stab them in the back proves she is out for herself only. Run her in 2020 at our own peril.

she's tireless in fighting other Dems (like Clinton and Franken) and throwing them under the bus.

Sometimes that is an unpopular position.

That seems to be a generally unpopular position, but it looks like some people support it.

and will prove to be so for our party. Plus it's intellectually lazy.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/12/08/zero-tolerance-is-never-the-answer/


I think zero tolerance policies come about for a couple of reasons. 1) the media and 2) it's easy and definitive for politicians to implement and for constituents to understand.

When there is an ongoing problem in society and the solutions to fix it have been mixed or negligible, suddenly becomes white hot politically, the Media (in whatever form) amplifies the problem, particularly the mixed or negligible solutions, and demand that politicians do something. Anything. Now. Politicians panic, look for the easiest, simplest thing to. Zero Tolerance becomes their go to.

Zero tolerance subverts any discussion of what is really going on and how do we address it. It doesn't benefit us, it doesn't requires to think like adults and participate like adults. It just shuts the whole thing down. Do we want justice or just revenge. Do we want to build policies, practices and guidelines that make the workplace and the world better and safer for women or just create fear, shame, confusion and alienation between men and women.

I think the Democrats are missing a real opportunity for a teaching, transformative moment. When the Democrats were asked why they wanted Franken to resign, they struggled or gave vague reasons such as "this is too much" or "enough is enough" etc. But what is too much? What is the criteria? What is the appropriate response. Who is redeemable and who should be locked away or permanently shunned? These are things we should be talking about. But instead, they forced him to resign, any nothing is really addressed.


Personally, I don't think Gillibrand will survive the primary.

Going after members of your own family for nothing when the real problem is the frat house next door is not moral high ground.

Nothing like getting a head start on Franken's back. Let's see who gets the money.

She went to private school. What is her stance on public schools and charters?

Gillibrand is not a "regular person" from what I can tell. She grew up in great privilege compared with the average American. Maybe that sells in New York State, but we need a candidate who can definitely identify with the guy in the Middle West who can't get a job because the local factories were closed and the jobs moved to China or Mexico or somewhere else.

We need a candidate who genuinely knows what it is like to be left out in America whether it is due to race, religion, the economy or location.

So far, I don't think Gillibrand is that candidate. It will take some doing to convince me that she is.

… we will have someone who is opposed to a man accused of sexual misconduct being given any opportunity to defend himself and clear his name. We will have someone who believes that accusations alone, in and of themselves, are sufficient reason to call for a man’s resignation without any further discussion.

If Goody Gillibrand is counting on no one remembering this fiasco by the time the 2020 election comes around, she is sadly mistaken – because her challengers for the nomination will undoubtedly bring it up as evidence of her rushing to judgment without allowing for due process, and her disloyalty to her own colleague in not giving him an opportunity to defend himself.

Of course, there’s always the possibility that a group of men will accuse Goody of having groped them during photo sessions – in which case, she will immediately withdraw her bid for the nomination, having made it clear that allegations alone are proof of guilt – right?