Men in power are also the ones for which there will be some motivation for false claims.

And as far as I know, the McCarthy witch hunt was not one-sided with one party paying the price and the other not.

in their collective feet.

Why aren't they holding hearings outside of Congress where Trump's accusers can put their stories on the records with any evidence? Dems may not me in control of Congress but they sure as heck can use some creative tactics to take the Republicans on. I have yet to see Gillibrand and the other Dems go hard core to do whatever they can to get Trump out of office or speak about Moore. I guess it is far easier to kill their own then to go after Trump.

They shoot themselves in the gut.

And when the damage is really beginning to register, they add a couple more shots.

Repugs don't even have to administer the coup de grâce, Dems willingly do it for them.

Yes, and it's so frustrating.

It should not have been that easy.

in order of priority for pushing Franken out.

They need to own this. The information was available about the charges being questionable.

So why did they go ahead?

And where is the evidence that they apply the same to the other side in terms of clear statements demanding the ouster of Trump and soon Moore.

Hit jobs, witch hunts, we don't want this to be anywhere near our party going forward.

Like she was so quick to do with Franken

will have very limited appeal to national democrats who are completely fed up with conservatives. Remember, she was elected to congress in a more northern district with plenty of conservatives, and her past record is too well documented to just be erased by voting more left now.

As for a continuation of male witch burning, the backlash is already occurring. Hopefully the attention to the problems of women continues, but Gilibrand will have to position herself as for women, and very carefully avoid attacking men, because anything else would be career suicide.

The only re-positioning I’m interested in is admitting her abominable jump to lynching, profuse apologies, and a person escort to Al Franken back to his Senate seat.

him to resign, joined by 19 male. They'll be cover for her.

Remember, most people have no idea of the "details" people imagine they know here, and that's not all bad by any means. News cable is mostly trash entertainment coverage, sensationalizing, deleting, and twisting to pump their ratings. They are very bad information sources. Everyone who watches without balancing with thoughtful written coverage is in grave danger of misunderstanding and/or missing entirely the important parts of what's really happening. And that goes for too many on-line sources also.

Sadly considering what cable should be, but fortunately considering what it is, out of 200 million registered voters, less than 5 million are cable viewers. Notably, it's not likely that more than that outside NY could connect Gillibrand with Franken by name, and next week 3/4 of those who can will have forgotten.

he has been my hero for years because he had the nerve to count the votes in his first election among other things

kg i only knew as a very conservative dem (another phrase that means repub) until now

Also one of many who's had to fight corruption to take office.

I've always liked and respected Franken, and I doubt he did anything he should have needed to resign for (though I don't KNOW), but I'm disgusted with his sudden deification by badly behaved people in the past few days. He was never so adored before he could be used as a catapult for firebombs against the Democratic Party.

And don't for a moment think he likes these people for it. The Franken I know is a committed Democrat, and he has to be appalled and disgusted.

taking place?

i have forgotten i guess


i am not badly behaved so i know you can't mean me but i can only speak of what i know from personal interaction with my mills and bernie,warren and franken are there heros or were until this all happened

poor democrats put themselves up as a target and are surprised something gets thrown

Qs. Why not forward all your posts to him, or better yet twitter them one by one, and see if you can get a response from him, of any kind.

He's a smart, disciplined, decent, and knowledgeable man, not in the least silly or stupid, Qs.

i actually think he will find a way to stay or go on to something bigger

i just never thought it would be the collective dem senators we had to fight

use his name to support attitudes I really think he would not approve.

What ever in Sen. Franken's past behavior makes you think he'd support attacking dozens of his fellow Democratic senators? Can you point to anything at all? And let's not forget, unlike people behaving like you here, he knows these people and he knows their RECORDS of all these people. He know all the issues they support and what these Democrats have accomplished during their careers.

So I ask you, knowing the answer, can you name even ONE stupidly destructive thing he's done to hurt even one of his Democratic colleagues? With or without the hypocrisy of actually claiming it's all about virtue?

Because if it was about virtue and morality, the list would be of 55 Republican senators.

A number of posts this weekend have stated that Franken really isn't that accomplished, that he is only one of 48 Dems, etc. Even if you buy this line of thought, that doesn't justify pressuring him to resign. What's the deal with this day-after calling out of Franken for being a middling senator, as if that justifies the rush to judgement that led to his resignation?

This unprecedented action of pressuring our own senator to resign, as opposed to hearings, censure, or some other alternative was unwise and extremely divisive at a moment when the party can least afford a food fight like this. I hope that everyone involved in this decision takes note of its immediate consequences. I have not posted much on DU lately, but I am personally so appalled by this that I feel very compelled to speak out. This is a widely shared sentiment, and it will probably continue for a while. Some additional public statements and forums by our senators are probably needed, so I hope they don't wait on that. Cause there's still a President Trump to oppose and elections to win.

Circular firing squads are no good for anyone, but it's hard to stop once it starts.

I would never vote for her in a Primary now...and I would have before.

Giant red flag.

I’m not feeling real great about the Dems who joined her PurityTest, either. #BelieveWomen doesn’t mean throw #DueProcess down the drain.

And running roughshod over our justice system.

Kristen Gillibrand is one of my senators and I've been seriously thinking she'd be a wonderful candidate for president someday. After her comments about Clinton and now jumping on the bandwagon with Franken though my enthusiasm for her has waned a bit. Actually I'm not all that happy with either of my Democratic senators ATM.

in the military, on college campuses, and in the workplace. She's oppossed every single disgusting cabinet choice. I never saw her as a power grabber, but now that's changed.
She must walk this back. I think (hope) she made a mistake, but so did 32 others.
Whether I can support her again after this, I honestly don't know, but her calling for a hearing for Franken instead of resignation would go a long way. We have an idiot in the WH who admits NOTHING and a party in power that is flat out dangerous.
She can and should admit she was wrong and heal Democrats.

Disgusted so many Democrats fell over each other in a race to take out Senator Franken.

She jumped the shark here.

Not only did Franken not get a fair hearing/investigation,
but on the face of it -- the two women who openly accused
him with photos as evidence were very fishy.

And then there were testimonials from many women who
knew Al and worked with him, who came out and said
he was a great guy and respected them completely.

I know who I believe.

What's she done is so dangerous for our collective well-being.

Franken was a kind of bulwark.

she went after Franken, I might still have a shred of respect for her, but she has blown it.

...posted in defense of gillibrand calling out Trump, just be sure to notice the December 10th date.

Gillibrand said Trump should be “ held accountable “. She did not say resign. She’s hedging and parsing her words. WHICH she did not do with Farenthold or Franken. Call for Trump ‘s resignation or lose all credibility.

.... because she and her like-minded group decided they could be judge and jury when it came to Al Franken without the benefit of a fair hearing, yet they strategically dance around even bringing up charges against der trumpenfuhrer.....till now.

Now we can understand why Pence protects himself to avoid a hit-job like what happened to Al Franken.

So do all of the other Senators who jumped on the bandwagon with her.

I wondered why they didn't just answer every question with "What about Trump? What about Moore?" It works for Republicans. Plus, when we do it, it's actually honest. There is no comparison.

WEAK!!!!

casually pat a butt during a photo op. Does that mean butt patting or grabbing or waist hugging or anything else without prior consent is OK? No. Politicians and anyone else who does it should be called out and shamed. Franken was.

But that wasn’t enough for the purists and we have now lost an extremely effective Senator who was very strong on women’s issues. Over an issue that quite literally is making the GOP and their voters burst out laughing at our eagerness to shoot ourselves in the foot over what they consider to be nothing.

The things that Trump has done and that Moore is credibly accused of are much worse in the degree and type of offense committed, but their constituents Do. Not. Care. about them. Check out the interviews of Alabama Republicans. They do not care.

When Moore is seated and nothing happens, Democrats will be outraged. Republicans and Republican voters will shake their heads and ignore them and get down to the business of dismantling the country.

The idea of zero tolerenace with no due process, no right to a defense or a denial, no evaluation, nothing but immediate ejection from the party, is not going to make Democrats stronger. Quite the opposite.

No excuse for them, they were still asses and totally wrong and immoral to do this and have killed any Democrats chances going forward. Now Repugs can feel free to make up lies about 'dems knowing they are too spineless to actually investigate.

....likened defending Franken with serving republican interests. That is McCarthyite and no accident it's on her website.

I watched the Jimmy Dore show about the Franken situation. I just expected a conventional beatdown, but ended up being surprised. They thought Franken was being railroaded and saw it has a ham-handed way to win an unobtainable Alabama seat. Myself I don't think there was any strategy, I think Gillibrand just barked and everybody fell in line regardless of Alabama. On the show they talked about donors selecting candidates not the party. Gillibrand sure looks like a donor selected politician to me.

Oh, really? Says who? I say that that's EXACTLY the kind of discussion we should be having. Otherwise, anyone and everyone accused of doing anything at all stands guilty and at risk of losing his career, and the people at risk of losing someone who champions causes for them.

Not to differentiate is to railroad someone. Equating putting one's hands on someone's waist when coming in close for a requested selfie is far different from taking off the clothes of a 14 year old and fondling her.

Pretending to grope a fellow entertainer, for the sake of a gag picture, is far different from actually groping behind a locked door, where her job is dependent on the groper.

To remind us all, here is Tweedledee doing her own form of harassment, and by her definition, being harassed back (by someone other than Franken; who, she did not claim harassment by). Notice that she ALSO pats his butt, after she twerks up against him in a sexual way.

But an arm around a waist is no go? I guess Al should of known the woman had quit smoking and was self conscious about her muffin top.

by his own choice. We should be concerned about people who attack Gillibrand for not agreeing with their opinion.

Last edited Sun Dec 10, 2017, 08:08 PM - Edit history (1)

He is quitting because his colleagues made it impossible for him to work on his constituents behalf. The fact that you believe that no one has the right to question the Gillibrand attack on Franken is disturbing to say the least. There is nothing wrong with expecting our politicians up uphold the US Constitution including the right of due process. Gillibrand and her cohorts should have supported Franken's right to an ethics investigation instead of stabbing him in the back.

As I have said before, they have spent far more energy attacking Franken who is charged with questionable allegations then going after Trump and Moore. Talk about hypocrisy. They might not have control of Congress but there are other ways to deal with the Trump and Moore situation.

anyone. Gillibrand could not force Franken to resign and expressing her opinion is a right actually enshrined in the Constitution, unlike due process for office holders, which is not.

Franken is a member of the US Senate which administers its own hearings and punishments if deemed necessary.
He could have been cleared, censured or expelled. That is the due process for a Senator under an ethics investigation. None of which Gillibrand in her rush to judgment afforded Franken.
She's not calling on Trump to resign. Note her tweets today. She said Trump should be “ held accountable “ she did not say not resign. She’s hedging and parsing her words. WHICH she did not do with Farenthold or Franken. She’s an opportunist. Call for Trump ‘s resignation or lose all credibility.

and now some are blaming other Democrats for his choosing to resign.

You'd want to stay in a job where people don't believe you based on a rush to judgment?
Why isn't Gillibrand calling on Trump to resign then?
If Franken's case is so clear-cut with her perfect moral clarity should be an easy call on Trump then.

he chose to resign. No one "railroaded" Franken. His colleagues are allowed to express their opinions and apparently Franken agrees with them, since he's doing as they asked.
From Gillibrand on twitter---
"When it comes to sexual assault, harassment, and the general mistreatment of women, we must be able to call out anyone, Democrat or Republican."

Her tweets from today said she said Trump should be “ held accountable “ not resign . She’s hedging and parsing her words. WHICH she did not do with Farenthold or Franken. Call for Trump ‘s resignation or lose all credibility.
Wasn’t hard for her to say resign for Franken.
Should not be that hard to say for Trump.
She’s being inconsistent.

...

innocent. A Senator can not function effectively for his/her constituents if his/her colleagues won't work with him/her. That is exactly what Gillibrand and her cohorts did. Do unto others as you would want done undo you. What do you think will happen the next time (and there will be a next time) when Roger Stone (or another Rethug) pulls a Lee Atwater level dirty trick? As the Rethugs pick off the Dems there will be fewer and fewer to defend teh Dems. Who will defend the progressives when there is no one left to take on the Rethugs?

when faced with a majority that is against them. That's the way to win.

Gillibrand statement excerpt "We are in a moment of reckoning—and the silence from Republicans is deafening. It is long past time for them to join Democrats in holding members of their own party accountable," Gillibrand tweeted, as a part of a longer thread that mentioned Republican Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore, President Trump and Rep. Blake Farenthold (R-Texas).

form of evidence, not just circumstantial, or witnesses.

Not sure that hurdle is always met in every instance

I put a discussion up supporting Frankin for President. I removed it when these claims started coming out. Look, Gillibrand is a women; and women in general have been preyed upon for too long. Whether it's full on sexual assault or unwanted touching, it has to be dealt with. Would I have resigned if I was Franken? Probably not unless there was something else out there that was there but had little chance of coming out. Lastly, I would potentially support Gillebrand in a run for president. I would of course want to know more of her positions, but there it is. Look, it's a done deal for the most part. Let the dust settle and move on. In other words, stop eating your own!

It's beginning to look like a railroad to get her the next presidential nomination, a lot like what the party did with the railroad for Hillary.

didnt she describe herself as a blue-dog when she was in the house?

Hillary was railroaded in?
HILLARY CLINTON WON BY THREE MILLION VOTES OVER TRUMP

HILLARY WON

I've deleted all her emails, if fact I've never signed up for them . I've been getting hit several times a day for the pass week + with fundraising calls from DCC - etc. I'm still trying to figure out how they get through with 000-000-0000 phone numbers.

from all the laws recently passed regarding junk phone calls. No surprise.

so much for Verizon.

Listen to yourselves. Instead of facing that even our heroes are flawed people, we're preventing women from making progress in society yet again. I'm incredibly disappointed how much this board is letting the Republican Party of Donald Trump and Roy Moore determine how we address sexism in our own ranks! This country's women deserve better!

does not represent progress for women in our society. The way we are letting these thugs run rampant, women are about five years away from losing their right to vote, in my opinion.

someone in the back without granting the person the right of due process (and in the case of Al Franken, an ethics investigation). When we find that acceptable then we are no better then the Republicans, fascists, and authortarian countries. The fact that there are democrats who find the actions of Gillibrand and her cohorts acceptable does not bode well for the Democratic Party.

Democrats are supposed to be better then that. They are supposed to stand up for the US Constitution and civil liberties. If you want to blame the future failure of the Me Too movement you will have to look at those who rush to destroy reputations without the benefit of due process and investigation. Like it or not, not everybody accused of sexual harassment will actually be guilty of the alleged crime. Just like there are death row inmates who are later found out to be innocent of the crime that landed them on death row. Just read the book my Max Cook, "Chasing Justice My Story of Freeing Myself After Two Decades on Death Row."

Apparently some don’t anymore. But don’t dare criticize this abomination of democratic principles.

is not the same as sexual harassment, not to mention that the incidents in question were not supervisor-based situations, if they happened at all. The women that actually worked with Al Franken on SNL supported him publicly.

will become another McCarthy - she is one of a very small handful of Senators that voted against defunding ACORN when Democrats had a majority, and she has also voted against more Trump cabinet nominees than anybody, including Sanders, Warren, Franken, Merkley and others.

as much as concerned about this trend of politics by allegation and trial by media.

No person should have to deal with being touched against their will or having offensive stuff said to them.

earth policy where the innocent are destroyed along with the guilty acceptable.

Why haven't Gillibrand and her cohorts also gone after Tweeden over the video that clearly showed her sexually harrassing the musician on stage at the USO tour. The video clearly showed that her attentions were not warranted (she rubber her butt up against his butt before he finally reached around and pushed her away at which point she slapped in him the butt twice). Sexual harrassment is something that can be commited by a man or a woman. With this video evidence, where are their public commentary on Tweeden's behavior? If you want to fight the sexual harassment fight then you cannot only defend female victims, you have to also stand up for the rights of male victims. Where are Gillibrand and her cohorts on this story? All you hear is total silence. If Gillibrand only tends to side with women then she is a total hypocrite and is really not fighting the true fight against sexual harrassment.

in a fair and expeditious way.

"Franken-izing" our political leaders, without the benefit of due process, is most certainly NOT the way.

Why:

because there are men who have and will be making claims of sexual harassment and there will be women against whom claims will be made. We are all people first. Human Being is the one tribe to which we all belong. Avoid adding to a male/female divide. (I believe the senate's action has added to that divide).

I would like to see "sexual harassment" as a term confined to the workplace since there is a legal definition. (there is still a problem here in some people arguing for a narrow definition of sex (gender). It must include everyone.

There needs to be a different term which describes the behaviors such as where hands are placed another person's body in group photos when power dynamics are not an issue.
While this behavior can range from accidental, to comportment issues, to cultural issues, to actual assault, conflating it with sexual harassment in the workplace or the creating of a hostile work environment is not helpful

Make norms of behavior and standards as explicit as possible. The new willingness of women and men to come forward provides the opportunity to do so and will allow people to speak out in real time. I think Perez is trying to do so-he needs help.

Don't expect leadership from members of Congress on cultural shifts. These big changes seem to arise mostly from the people, with senators taking their lead from the people.

Treat every individual who comes forward with utmost respect and take their statements seriously. It is possible to state ones concerns about what is said or even without trashing the individual.

Gillibrand has been responsive to the concerns of women in the military regarding sexual harassment for a long time. I think this fact alone is sufficient to explain her action. I believe however that due process is a democratic principle that generally needs to be observed. I also believe that overturning the votes of a duly elected senator is a serious issue, not to be done without careful consideration. (One exception I see is if there is a clear and present danger). I don't think clear and present danger existed regarding Franken).

Senate democrats have a minority leader and a majority whip. It is these two persons whom I would see as having gotten so many senators, including Sen Sanders, to publicly demand Franken's resignation.

This is not my great great grandmother's Democratic Party, which seemed, at least in cities, to be much more organized. The senate, the house and the DNC-each has its own leadership and priorities.

We don't really have a leader of all democrats. Even when we have a sitting president who is nominally the head of the party, there are problems of whether to focus on party-building or re-election of the president.

Many of us consider ourselves members of the Democratic Party-but are we really? Some of us are registrants, some donate money, some volunteer but in reality many of us are likely Democratic voters whose voices are being heard only through the polling of the moment.

What is our role?

Where is the information pipeline that goes from us to them. How frustrating is it to have people in position of power over us whose doors are figuratively shut to us because ,although they have important leadership positions, refuse to take our calls or emails because we are not constituents?

The Franken debacle is a self-inflected wound on the part of elected democrats in the senate and more specifically on the part the leadership.

No. She is already there.

she has lost a lot of support

she invoked 'zero tolerance.'

Whenever I hear those words, I think of the first grade girl who was expelled because she accidentally took her mother's lunch to school instead of her own, and there was a plastic butter knife in it.

Because, of course, in a 'zero tolerance' environment, you have zero discretion, zero common sense, and you end up with outcomes that are unjust, indecent and immoral.

Instead of 'zero' tolerance, maybe there should be some common sense criteria applied to these situations. I'm in my late fifties, a white male, and I began working back in the early 70s. In that decade, the 80s and the 90s, we had some pretty egregious harassment of women considered the norm. No one wants to go back to those days, but those of us who lived through them and worked in a variety of jobs in the context of that culture may have said or done some things that made female colleagues uncomfortable.

But are you going to crucify us all on a cross of 'zero tolerance?' Or will you ask, 1) how serious was the behavior? 2) how long ago did it happen? and 3) is that behavior continuing now, or has it happened during the last five years?

The bottom line is that everyone deserves a fair shake, and someone who did something creepy (but non-violent and non-coercive) twenty years ago needs to be able to own it, apologize and then move on in good standing, provided the behavior is not repeated.

In the context of Franken, I look to the groups of women from SNL and from his own Senate office who have spoken up in support of him. He clearly isn't doing those creepy things now, and if you look at his record in supporting constituents, and women while in office, it's pretty darned good.

So, Gillibrand led the charge, but these 38 Senators have hurt the Democratic party politically by removing one of its strongest voices.

They have hurt the party's image with independent and millennial voters.

They have, in a de-facto way, opened the gates for even more Karl Rove style mudslinging.

And worst of all, their actions may actually hurt the #metoo movement over the long haul.

This ill-advised railroading of Franken has shot our party in the foot when we need to be unified around fighting the tax scam as it goes through conference committee so its damage is hopefully minimized, get rid of Trump and the other criminals in his administration, and flip the House and Senate. Now, instead, you have this massive political blowback that is also weakening Gillibrand, Harris and the rest.

See? Implementing 'zero tolerance' policies brings about lots and lots of unintended and mostly negative consequences.

the Black Death and now another dem, Gillibrand is the greatest public threat since...

as one of the Senate's greatest asset in taking on the Trump crime family. This drew the wrath of the Trump crowd and a dirty tricks hit on Franken. The Dems, in a knee jerk reaction to "prove" how moral they are, hauled out their knives and politically killed Franken. Despite taking oaths to protect and defend the Constituation, they chose to deny on the their most effect colleagues and denied him the right of an ethics investigation that he called for.

There is no comparison between Franken and Gillibrand. Franken put his constituents first while Gillibrand put her political career first. If she could not be bothered to allow Franken his right to an Ethics Investigation she can't be trusted to stand up for the 99%.

A large and powerful fire is burning the nation, should we extinguish a small fire, that by all evidence, has the potential to back-burn the large fire?
.....The unfortunate result of a "Trial by Inquisition" is alienation. The Minnesota democrats just alienated every "Joe Biden" Voter in America. I'd say its a severe blow to the idea of a woman as president any time soon. Joe Biden, Garrison Keillor, Al Franken, They are men with strong public support and a historic demonstration of moral intelligence, yet their desire to connect emotionally to others, be it though their hands or personality, has been re-defined as "intent to rape". "Moral high ground" is ambiguous, just ask any Republican. The only thing the democratic party has achieved is the "Prudish High Ground"....

"Everyone gets a fair shot, Everyone does his or her fair share, and Everyone plays by the same rules."

So who do we "support no matter what" here? Franken? Gillibrand?

There was literally no downside for Democrats with bigger aspirations to pile on Franken or to do whatever the hell is in their own selfish interests. Because "Support DEMOCRATS!!!!"

Do whatever the fuck you want. Say whatever the fuck you want.

wanted to fight for and they have stuck to their guns. It took a long time but they know pretty much control the entire Federal Government. As much as I hate the Republicans I have to admit that they know how to play the long game.

Heck the Democrats can't even play a decent short game. It is time for the progressives to develop a long game. Draw the line on what we want and what we won't accept. Why should we be willing to settle for less then what we deserve? I have reached the point where I am no longer willing to settle.

I attempted to thread up a progressive solution to the Senator Franken issue on an alternative feed that was chock full of female claimants to the progressive ideology. The result was nothing but hard line conservative comments. I'm wondering if the road from the hypocrisy is for Senator Franken to become the voice of the "Roosevelt Progressive Party"...

think this is the last? Will the 33 want to take out that one as well? Is this not a precedent? Hard to walk back precedents.

The voters of NY may wish to send Ms. Gillibrand unfavourable greetings via email, twitter, facebook and social media. I prefer face to face or in your face.

By a sitting Liberal Senator. It is tweeted ahead of time by Roger Stone. The story breaks on Sean Hannity. They are all Facebook friends. Then 5 "anonymous" women say he improperly hugged them while posing for photos (done for being viewed by anyone and everyone and in public places).
This is good enough evidence for Gillibrand and Warren and Schumer in the days of approaching bankruptcy and racism?

I need a ticket to New Zealand or someplace.
Trump was right. America is dead.

and can't pretend this didn't happen.

Logic is out the window

in terms of McCarthyism, maybe because that happened before I was born, and I don't relate to it the same as a person who either lived through it, or studied it intensely.

But, bottom line is this, are we willing to put our money where our mouth is on this? There are about four months until the filing deadline for the New York Senate race, if a credible challenger enters that race, someone who's been a proven progressive their whole life, and not just when it became politically expedient to do so, will we support that person?

I still have a lot of friends in NY that I could persuade on one of my trips back there. I even have a few old drinking buddies that I could convince to switch their registrations to Democratic just for the purpose of unseating Gillibrand, who could not stand her before the Franken accusations.

is greatly overblown.

But time will tell, eh?

We need someone who really tells it like it is. Franken did that. Warren and Sanders do that. But most Democrats are, at various times, too unwilling to go "there". To lay the blame where it belongs for everything that is wrong here.

I do agree, though, that this false equivalency is setting up a backlash.

run for public office. She might be as a pure a candidate as you could find.

I assume that most lawyers who serve at the alter of big tabacco must have fluid principals at the very least.

and the current candidate of her district House seat.

Yell wolf too many times and people won't pay attention to the real sexual harassment cases.....

Employers will be more hesitant to hire women......

Sorry to say, Gillibrand....this is all about YOU and your political ambitions.

You are not helping your cause.

that band wagon

I think the problem with this is they jumped the gun, and instead of letting this play out until the ethics investigation was complete, for one reason or another, undermines the point they were trying to make, zero tolerance, because they cut off the investigation before it got started