Whatever works was my reply.

They're going to charge their customers a metered fee for bandwidth use and the porn users will pay through the nose.

and have resented that the so called "left" has the unmitigated gaul to defend it. Endlessly and with great energy.

The overt demeaning and objectifying of women, for someones so called "pleasure" should not even be allowed, let alone free.

Let people pay a fortune for it- tax it to the hilt - to pay for all of us who have been damaged by it our entire lives to get help.

In case you have not noticed, I hate porn and anyone who defends it.

Last edited Fri Dec 15, 2017, 01:43 AM - Edit history (1)

I just know that regular porn has been a force against the progress of women standing any sort of chance of being taken seriously. Unless of course one wants to go the path of the women T likes.

Seriously, a tad over half of the population being humiliated, degraded, tortured, etc for the "enjoyment" of the already priveledged class is unconscionable.

That any liberal - and here on DU it overwhelmingly is so- defends them - is so tone deaf, one is left reeling.

I know women who enjoy it. I have known a few women in the industry.

I accept that you feel the way that you do, but your opinion is not paramount and IMO shouldn't override anyone else's.

Also, gay porn is "regular" porn, too.

entitled 'enjoyment" one bit.

It has amplified the objectification of women and girls worldwide. #Me too really is #who hasn't and #grateful it was less than 10X etc.

Look, what do we have 10 years to turn around the climate disaster coming our way? It's an all hands on deck time for us as humans.

All adults- whatever our particular sex at this time and place is - need to be working full speed ahead on solving this. I really don't care about anyone's pleasures at this time. Especially those that contribute to the marginalization and silencing and continual harassment of half the population that could and should be doing something about it.

The idea that one person's individual pleasure is more important than the good of the whole is why we have republican's in charge of everything and the atmosphere filled with carbon and over half the adult population continually marginalized and degraded and left thinking that their only worth is in their appearance and sex appeal.

Last edited Fri Dec 15, 2017, 06:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Well, aren't you noble! How can we all learn to be superior like you? What a grand world that would be!

What about porn that doesn't harm anyone? Do you believe that it exists, or are you foolishly lumping it all together because you lack the capacity (and you imagine others to lack the capacity) to distinguish?

You seem eager to pretend that erotic nudes of a man consensually photographed by a woman are the same as exploitative video of women coerced into violent or degrading acts for a dozen screaming men. Your failure to understand reality makes you ill-qualified to comment upon it.

You don't like porn. Good for you. I don't like censorship, no matter how you try to dress it up.

Since you've decided that we're all basically doomed in ten years regardless, why bother with anything in the meantime? Why listen to women who were sexually harassed in 2005? Why administer vaccines to babies who'll be killed by global warming before they're old enough to drive? Hell, we'll all starve or whatever anyway, so fuck the whole damn thing!

The answer, of course, is that your objection is silly and off-target.

See, I thought that we were having a serious discussion, but then you drop this goofy nonsense on me, and I can see that I'm wasting my time.

Enjoy wasting time on things that hurt instead of heal, diminish instead of expand consciousness.

The rest of us have work to do. And are doing it. There is no time to be fooling around.

Several in this thread have correctly articulated the silliness of your argument, yet it's clear that you have no intention of reconsidering your stance.

As long as it lets you feel like you're a noble warrior campaigning for justice, or whatever, I guess it's all good.

is some crucial element in the " freedom of speech" stable, just go right ahead deluding yourself that women are going to put up with it anymore.

It is primarily the right wing women who champion it, and they are the ones who voted for T and his ilk. So keep standing tall with the likes of Sarah Palin and the rest of them.

Keep wasting your time and dither away these crucial years where climate action is critical. But stop pretending that you are doing anything other than digging yourself deeper and deeper into a view that smacks of your privilege.

You've created this fantasy in which all porn is evil subjugation of women either direct or indirect, and you see everything through that weirdly skewed lens.

By your own admission, you know nothing of gay porn, yet you declare it separate from "regular porn." Do you believe that gay people are not regular people, too?

That is simply a stupid and fucked-up accusation. Unsurprising, yes, but stupid and fucked-up all the same.

I mean, how do you even respond to that? You can't. It's not based in any form of reality.

And whether they actively engage or follow those that work in this industry. And not just the top tier stuff but the amateur ones that are building their own businesses around it in some creative and engaging ways.

Glad you took one for the team in stepping in here; I usually love delving into these arguments as DU has some strong porn-hate and not a lot of understanding of what it actually is in the here and now, but I just didn't have the energy for this one.

And how they invariably paint themselves as moral authorities.

It's like they're all reading from the same Ed Meese playbook or something.

And they can't believe that a lot of those involved actually have their own agency. I don't follow much in the way of professional porn outside of a few performers that I like but there are a lot of really great things going on with the amateur/semi-pro level, particularly through social media that lets you get a real idea of who they are. That the one poster here basically views it all as evil and that they're right wing shills cracks me up.

Particularly that no liberal women are into porn. Good gravy things have changed. The last twenty years has seen a marked increase in the number of women interested in porn and that HAS changed it for the better with more variety, better handling, and just a sense of maturing like any industry.

But some just seem to think it's still the peep shows in a dirty late 70's NYC.

Warren usually does the honors. My only issue with porn is how the performers are treated. As long as they are treated fairly, with respect, and according to all laws, I'm good. If a woman freely chooses to be in the industry, and it is truly a free choice, what's the problem ? Feminism is about choice.

and the reputable companies. There are always scammers out there, like any industry. But the main industry side is pretty well handled these days. and we're seeing the amateur side being treated very well by companies like PornHub as well where men and women are becoming entrepreneurs through it with their own sites.

either by law -- the right to vote, for example, or labor laws that "protected" women. Or by custom -- certain jobs were just "for women".

While we're still a long way from complete equality, there are more women elected officials and corporate officers than at any time in our history. There also is more porn easily available than at any time in our history. Do I think there is causal relationship? Of course not. But I also don't think the availability of porn is the force preventing "the progress of women being taken seriously." In fact, I'm guessing that there are a lot of anti-porn right wingers out there who don't take women seriously. A lot.

right wingers who want to see women "kept in their place". But here on DU ( and I'm quite sure other liberal boards as well) liberal men ( along with a few vociferous women) for over a decade have been dismissing what many more liberal women have to say about the effect on us this freely available porn has.

If you think that these things have no effect on us, you are wrong.

Woefully wrong.

to go far enough? Do you feel government should make all objectifying of women's bodies illegal, or are you just approving of boards of directors of commercial service providers deciding whether we can download Playboy or videos of beach volleyball?

If government or corporate COOs can decide what we get to look at, is it okay if they decide we can't say "Happy Holidays" on line instead of "Merry Christmas"? After all, many regard this behavior as an insult and even a secular attack on their religion, and some of those people are wealthy and powerful. Is it okay to protect the feelings of the dominant religionists in this country who are as offended by that as you are by pornography?

But my point is that all the same people get all worked up about how their porn is some sort of liberal right and part and parcel to free speech, etc.

On and on the decades go by, same refusal to consider what so many liberal women have been writing about all this time.

You won't listen to us, you disregard what is said about how it effects us. Why?

Our feelings do not seem to matter. Our safety concerns are summarily dismissed. Our opportunities to participate in the culture freely do not appear to matter to any of you who argue how porn is a protected constitutional right.

It sounds the same to me as the second amendment people arguing for their weapons to remain unregulated.

I see it as a similar sort of entitlement, the same bullying and diminishing of the more vulnerable, civilized and civil members of society.

Pretend it does not hurt us all you want.

Most everyone else on DU has given up. The most eloquent ones already gave it their all and walked away. What is the point? None of the pro porn people will ever be convinced.

I am only reminding you that you are wrong.

It's not that your hostility to it doesn't matter, only that the wishes of those who feel like you are not the only ones to be considered. But they are nevertheless to some degree, which is why in most states pornographic materials for sale must be hidden from the view of passersby.

You know, your desire to impose your feelings on the rest of society are not that different from those who want laws regulating female dress, and for much the same reasons. In conservative Muslim countries, it's believed that viewing women's bodies causes sinful thoughts, and thus harm to women and to society as a whole.

It's just a matter of degree of remedy.

Notably, they, very much like you, believe strongly that covering women's bodies is imperative to protect women. Neither they, nor you, believe that your personal ability to choose for yourself whether you will view or pose for pornography protects you, because others are still viewing.

They, like you, believe that the liberal principle of the right to pursuit of happiness is very wrong as applied to how women can display themselves, and can be hired and displayed for commercial purposes.

You're very right in recognizing that your views are not liberal. I'm not sure you realize just how much, though. Viewing women's bodies is only one of many, many thousands of behaviors we find personally enjoyable that are protected by our constitution, like your coming to chat on forums like this.

Many people feel women should not speak in public, any more than they should display their bodies. And for the same reasons, for the good of society and of women themselves.

into the next generation in a way that they do not notice or even understand.

That you think it is about sex reveals a sad commentary.

Your desire (and the rest of the porn champions on this board) to insist that porn is about your right to sexual enjoyment runs counter to what all the women who have for decades now have been writing and attempting to communicate with you (utterly unsuccessfully, I must add). Very liberal women at that. It is not for you to pass judgement on who is liberal. You have no right whatsoever to insist that porn is some sort of freedom for us. To dismiss our point of view entirely- why? And cloak all that attitude in some ridiculous "freedom of speech" argument that simply fails?

Women speaking out about how porn damages us is so opposite of men dictating how we dress that it does not even warrant my response.

Oh and yes, you's for sure get some right wing women to champion porn and the power it gives them. Good for them. Good for all the republican ideas of taking what you can and not caring about anyone else or the consequences. But don't pretend for one minute that ignoring the voices of the women impacted by the non stop pollution of our imagination and self image is anything other than ignoble.

rather surprisingly liberal and enlilghtened considering the source. But it may be best that context is missing.

it on Dems and still vote republicans. These idiots are always in denial when they get screwed over it's the same line every time "Its the democrats fault they did this are blah blah wasn't a real republican and is a democrat in disguise.

with a 1200baud modem as it would with 100MB broadband.

your post cracked me up. That shit hole Freerepublic looks like it's straight out of 1995 but it's not shocking since republicans like to always live in the past. They are middles schoolers out there that could design a better website than that POS.

I would think

If net neutrality hasn't returned by then, of course.

To wit:



'According to a nationwide study of anonymous online credit card transactions, Americans living in traditionally religious, conservative states consume more online porn than their godless liberal blue state fellow citizens, with Utah leading the way.'

The good old boys are going to shit when the internet bill comes in in a few months.

POC and women are suffering. The only thing that would motivate them more is the draft.

The Porn companies will buy the fast lane.

They aren't giving porn for free cause they are porn charities. It makes them big money.