General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUFOs
What's with all the UFO talk all of a sudden?
I believe they exist. To believe we are the only intelligent life form in the universe is pure ignorant arrogance.
But again, why all the UFO talk now?
MineralMan
(146,336 posts)That's why.
Irish_Dem
(47,495 posts)to prepare us for a hard disclosure?
Or merely distraction from a very messy scene in Washington DC?
dhill926
(16,370 posts)JDC
(10,135 posts)The earth and other species, it would wipe us out like the virus that we are.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)And sent a broadband distress call?
MGKrebs
(8,138 posts)They won't hurt us if we give them cookies.
dchill
(38,556 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)The Twilight Zone is forever relevant. Imagine what Rod Serling's mind might have done with today's technology and social ills! The "He's Alive" episode is creepy to watch now. But, I recommend it because it was a very clear warning of possibilities. Young Dennis Hopper resembles early pics of Trump.
bluestarone
(17,062 posts)i've always been interested in this. It is nice to talk about something else for a change
stopbush
(24,397 posts)UFOs piloted by aliens? The challenge of being able to travel millions of light years in short order would need to have been solved. Kinda doubt it.
triron
(22,025 posts)Lots of planets within 1000 ly. Theoretically there is a way to traverse many ly within a relatively short period of time by warping spacetime around the vehicle.
We just don't have the technical capacity.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,906 posts)does not seem feasible, according to my physicist son. He does acknowledge that extremely advanced technologies my be different.
But chances are travelling faster than light speed is probably not ever going to happen, which means actual interstellar travel in any meaningful way is highly unlikely.
My take on things is this: it's highly possible that intelligent life has evolved more than once, but how many of those intelligent life forms have actually gone on to a technological civilization like ours? What if an intelligent species evolves on a planet with a permanent cloud cover, like Venus? Or well within the atmosphere of Jupiter? Or under the ice covering a planet wide ocean like Europa? What if such intelligent life never sees the stars above? Or if they simply develop in a direction that never leads them off their planet?
Another essential problem is that any species lasts at best a million years. There's no reason to think that developing an advanced technological civilization can change that. So a civilization can flower, possibly attain space travel, and then die off long before it can make any meaningful foray into the rest of the galaxy.
I read science fiction and love speculation as much as anyone. Among my favorite s-f first contact movies is "The Arrival" which came out in 1996. If you haven't seen it yet, do so. It's great.
Oh, and here's a way to think about the vastness of interstellar distances. Our galaxy, Milky Way, contains about 300 billion stars, and is on a collision course with Andromeda, which as about a trillion stars. This will happen in about 4 or 5 billion years, so brace yourself. A while back I asked my physicist son how many stars would actually collide. He said that of course they don't know for sure, but the current best guess is no more than ten. Think about that. Ten out of 1.3 trillion stars. Of course, he added, many more will be gravitationally affected. But actual collisions? Deep space is deep indeed.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)A race advanced enough to travel thousands of light years comes to earth?
We're amoebae compared to them!
triron
(22,025 posts)How far away are we from this technical accomplishment?
You have no idea. Maybe we are less than a couple or so hundred years away.
Do we think of our founding fathers as amoeba? I think not.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)And, yes I actually do know the answers to those questions. And this technical achievement of which you speak means you watch too much TV.
Finally, I was joking! Lighten up!
triron
(22,025 posts)I think it is highly likely earth has been visited by extraterrestrial intelligence
and for quite some time already. You may find this interesting: http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/07/11/top-u-s-astronomers-tell-congress-that-extraterrestrial-life-exists-without-question/
triron
(22,025 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)I saw that back when it came out. Seems like the "controlled fusion is just around the corner" stuff we've been hearing since the late 70's.
Let that sink in: For forty years, controlled fusion is just around the corner.
Whiskeytide
(4,463 posts)Vogon_Glory
(9,132 posts)Id think that studying a not-so-intelligent species and its effects on a planetary ecosystem would be fascinating.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)Go to a puddle! Done! Not quite the same!
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)Archae
(46,356 posts)No matter how discredited the entire concept.
Just a few years ago I was on my bicycle heading home, when I saw a shape-changing UFO.
Had I turned to go down another street or stopped, that's what my memory would have been.
As I got closer, I saw it was a bunch of balloons tethered to a spot on a car dealer's lot near me.
UFO's come from three sources:
1. Mistakes.
"Look! A flying saucer!"
"That's an airliner..."
2. Crazies seeing things the rest of us can't.
3. People who make shit up for money.
get the red out
(13,468 posts)because so many of us wish one would stop and pick Trump and Pence up?
I agree with you though, I believe there is some weird shit that goes on that we don't know the origin of.
Moostache
(9,897 posts)Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)We live in a time where everyone literally carries a camera around in their pocket, as well as the means to distribute those images worldwide, instantly. And, yet... nothing. Imagine that.
misanthrope
(7,432 posts)Not to mention, the advent and proliferation of photo and video editing software has made people a little more skeptical about visual evidence. It's easier to fake something now but now that we're used to seeing CGI, it's made folks harder to fool.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)doodsaq
(120 posts)...at the first sign of someone about to snap a photo of them.
ProfessorGAC
(65,228 posts)They vaporize anyone who tries to take a picture.
They're REALLY camera shy.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)People have watched to many star trek movies. Call me when they find a flying saucer. Then I will believe it. Maybe the aliens have paid tours you take to come see the planet earth, like a safari, Lol.
MineralMan
(146,336 posts)Yeah...that's the ticket...
PJMcK
(22,056 posts)Delphinus
(11,842 posts)That was fun to listen to - thank you!
PJMcK
(22,056 posts)I enjoy Dr. Tyson's sense of humor and perspective.
I'm also a fan of Lawrence Krauss. His books and lectures are captivating.
Enoki33
(1,588 posts)civilized planet. As a species what we have achieved was done within the last 50b years. Imagine what another species conceivably could have achieved in 500b years - things like harvesting the power of the stars or dark matter. Fascinating stuff to think about. As a species we could use some humility in our mad rush to destroy the only home we now have.
MGKrebs
(8,138 posts)One can believe in other intelligent life without buying into UFO's here.
We have to ask- why would they come here? And why would they come here but then hide from us? That's almost worse than being the only intelligent life in the universe: We're a very special experiment being monitored for god knows how long.
Also, they have the technology to traverse interstellar space and hang around here, but they can't quite perfectly conceal themselves?
Nevertheless, as someone else said, there is some weird shit out there. So who knows.
If they come from the nearest known other habitable plant, that is 12 years away if you can fly at the speed of light. Even if you could harness the energy required for that, and find a way to survive the journey, it's still 12 years! Are we worth all that? And what do they do when they get here?
It takes us years to get around in our own solar system.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)It makes sense to believe there's other intelligent life in the universe, although we lack evidence right now, common sense tells us that it's unlikely we're the only intelligent life in a universe with many millions of planets.
As for UFO's, personally I need hard evidence; it's not a matter of "belief" because that's something that's observable.
misanthrope
(7,432 posts)Thanks
Enoki33
(1,588 posts)to other possible civilizations, especially in a universe where physics is constantly evolving.
MGKrebs
(8,138 posts)we can discuss anything we can imagine and we can discuss anything we currently know as possible. Either can be interesting.
Enoki33
(1,588 posts)have realistically though possible. And that was only 500 years. And so it goes.
Willie Pep
(841 posts)People are interested in the mysterious and unknown so whenever UFOs come up in the news it excites people.
Some info on paranormal belief in the United States:
https://blogs.chapman.edu/wilkinson/2017/10/11/paranormal-america-2017/
misanthrope
(7,432 posts)"Currently the most common paranormal belief in the United States is the belief that ancient, advanced civilizations, such as Atlantis once exited with more than half of respondents (55%) agreeing or strongly agreeing with this statement."
No, the most common paranormal belief in the United States are mainstream religions like Christianity.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"No, the most common paranormal belief in the United States..." is that imaginary borders are real and more important than people.
(since we're both misusing the word to apply an irrelevant sentiment...)
misanthrope
(7,432 posts)paranormal
adjective para·nor·mal ˌper-ə-ˈnȯr-məl , ˌpa-rə- ; ˈper-ə-ˌnȯr- , ˈpa-rə-
Definition of paranormal
: not scientifically explainable : supernatural
supernatural
adjective su·per·nat·u·ral ˌsü-pər-ˈna-chə-rəl , -ˈnach-rəl
Definition of supernatural
1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature
b : attributed to an invisible agent (such as a ghost or spirit)
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You just delved into a level of faith normally required for religious fanatics.
Stinky The Clown
(67,824 posts)Science says there are at least a billion planets just in our Milky Way galaxy similar enough to Earth that could support life. There are billions of other galaxies.
That's science. Not faith.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You brought science to the level of faith.
You are calling your claim "science" when it is anything but. It is pure faith on your part. No different than the devoutly religious.
Stinky The Clown
(67,824 posts)Because what you've written thus far makes the claim but doesn't say why.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You start with science and then move into faith. That is fact. It is one of the more commonly flawed arguments in life. Stating one fact does not mean that which flows off of that fact, is fact.
You make a scientific claim and then move into something that can only be stated as faith. You claimed anyone disagreeing is ignorant even though you didn't make any form of solid case outside of faith itself.
Truly a model for religious fanaticism. So much is based on a cornerstone of fact and then bastardized with faith.
"To believe we are the only intelligent life form in the universe is pure ignorant arrogance." <- Individually faith based. Not fact based.
Stinky The Clown
(67,824 posts)Science: there are estimated to be a billion or more planets in just our galaxy similar enough to ours to support carbon based life.
Science: There are many billions of other galaxies, presumably with many billions of planets capable of supporting carbon based life forms.
Inference: How many non-carbon based life forms might be possible?
Logic: With billions upon billions of potential life supporting planets, logic dictates that one cane safely assume there is life elsewhere.
Respectfully, you will not see it differently. I will not see it differently.
Good day to you.
MLAA
(17,338 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)I agree with your statement. Simple logic isn't 'faith'. It's logic. And it IS pure arrogance to ignore the logic of mathematics. No faith needs to be involved, unless someone has faith that no other life exists except on Planet Earth.
Vogon_Glory
(9,132 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 19, 2017, 11:37 AM - Edit history (1)
We already share the planet with a number of intelligent species. Unfortunately for whales and dolphins, we humans are too lazy/stupid to recognize them as fellow sentiments and we havent succeeded in cracking their language(s).
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Beyond clearly, actually.
I do agree with you that life on earth, humanly or otherwise, is not appropriately recognized to the point we can fairly call ourselves brutal beings.
brooklynite
(94,762 posts)Glowing Auras and Black Money: The Pentagons Mysterious U.F.O. Program
WASHINGTON In the $600 billion annual Defense Department budgets, the $22 million spent on the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program was almost impossible to find.
Which was how the Pentagon wanted it.
For years, the program investigated reports of unidentified flying objects, according to Defense Department officials, interviews with program participants and records obtained by The New York Times. It was run by a military intelligence official, Luis Elizondo, on the fifth floor of the Pentagons C Ring, deep within the buildings maze.
The Defense Department has never before acknowledged the existence of the program, which it says it shut down in 2012. But its backers say that, while the Pentagon ended funding for the effort at that time, the program remains in existence. For the past five years, they say, officials with the program have continued to investigate episodes brought to them by service members, while also carrying out their other Defense Department duties.
The shadowy program parts of it remain classified began in 2007, and initially it was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time and who has long had an interest in space phenomena. Most of the money went to an aerospace research company run by a billionaire entrepreneur and longtime friend of Mr. Reids, Robert Bigelow, who is currently working with NASA to produce expandable craft for humans to use in space.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,372 posts)Like GOP/Russia collusion: it's a conspiracy theory.
So, if the UFO stories divert our attention from Russia inquiries, all's good, right?
Beaverhausen
(24,472 posts)that the government is hiding.
The truth is out there.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)I am aware that some people will go out of their way to call me foolish. I don't care. I want to believe that there is more out there undiscovered. The idea of being alone in the galaxy saddens me. Look what we have done to ourselves and this planet. If we are truly alone as the only sentient life in the galaxy or worse, the universe, then we have squandered a precious gift. It doesn't matter our origin, we would be unique and destroying something truly statistically improbable to have come into existence.
I find the thought of living in a world with no mystery, with no new discovery to be completely and utterly boring.
That doesn't mean I believe UFO stories or believe in alien astronaut theories. No, I just hope we aren't alone so that when we do destroy ourselves, sentient life will carry on elsewhere. I must admit that the thought of discovery of life on other planets is exciting to me. Contact with another intelligent species... I cannot think of anything more interesting and exciting.
mnmoderatedem
(3,729 posts)I sure wish trump supporters would climb back aboard them and fly back to wherever the hell they came from.
AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)Eko
(7,369 posts)a unidentified flying object, why people make the jump to aliens is amusing.
Noodleboy13
(422 posts)In 2004 2 F-18's operating off the coast of San Diego were vectored in to an strange radar contact. The unidentified craft dropped from 80,000 to 20,000 ft extremely rapidly and then parked in the air for awhile. The F-18's were able to give pursuit for awhile (there is cockpit video available) before the craft accelerated away.
I'm not a naval aviation expert, but I believe the F/A- 18 is the Navy's air superiority fighter; not much can out fly it.
peace.
Noodleboy
bluestarone
(17,062 posts)Noodleboy13
(422 posts)Interesting video.
peace
Noodleboy
bluestarone
(17,062 posts)makes a person think for sure!!!!!!!
JHB
(37,163 posts)hunter
(38,334 posts)SHADO can build a base on the moon, but they're still using 300 baud modems and ALL CAPS?
JHB
(37,163 posts)...1980.
The computers were probably the tech (and fashion) where they came closest to reality.
roamer65
(36,747 posts)MatthewG.
(362 posts)Main reason why people are talking about this now was Saturdays revelation in the New York Times and elsewhere, already cited above, that the Pentagon spent 20 million looking at UFOs between 2007 and 2012. Senator Harry Reid - former Democratic Majority Leader - was apparently one of the movers behind this.
Other than that, UFOs, like all occult and esoteric phenomena, make great entertainment, whatever level of reality one ascribes to them. People love sci-fi and fantasy - always have, always will.
highplainsdem
(49,044 posts)betsuni
(25,678 posts)Dem buddies wasting 22 million ("Was it worth it?" ). That was ABC news' reporting I just saw. A poor attempt to take the heat off Republicans for their tax plan by painting Democrats as the real tax 'n' spenders?
I don't think anyone's going to get upset about it, though. UFO's are popular and fun.
orleans
(34,079 posts)they talked about harry reid and essentially what a jerk he was to piss off 22 MILLION DOLLARS for this stupid investigation.
it was either on local or nightly news on abc, cbs, nbc, or local fox.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)rockfordfile
(8,706 posts)At the end of the year.
Wounded Bear
(58,728 posts)Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)
bluestarone This message was self-deleted by its author.
bdamomma
(63,930 posts)let's take him to the LEADER!!! maybe they will abduct him!!
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)A UFO is an unidentified flying object. I believe there are flying objects people have been unable to identify. Ergo, I believe in UFO's.
But that's not what people mean when they say "I believe in UFO's". They mean they believe in aliens. Aliens that are visiting the United States under cover of dark for reasons unknown. But UFO's do not mean aliens. Because if a UFO is determined to be alien, it is no longer unidentified. It is just a flying object.
Because the US military has airplanes, and because pilots sometimes see things they can't identify, it stands to reason the US military has files on UFO's. This does not mean the US military has files on aliens. But that's what people tend to think.
misanthrope
(7,432 posts)**
ecstatic
(32,740 posts)compelling.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)in our atmosphere, or anywhere close. Could happen one day, or maybe it did explain Stonehenge, Pyramids, etc.
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)US military releases classified footage of UFO tracked by Navy pilots
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ufo-video-us-navy-tracking-pilots-footage-unidentified-object-a8116356.html