Like compensating Greece for access or services it provides to its neighboring countries. Giving aid to help Greece out. Western Europe needs the access to the Mediterranean that Greece provides. Western Europe needs a secure Mediterranean. The shipping channels need to be kept open. Compromises will have to be made.

They forgive the debt....banks lose money and contract, then start contracting the economy which is already starting to do due to the sanctions with Russia...flip side, they remain hard nosed....Greece will probably exit the EU...which will lead to a a lot of tit for tat (i.e. EU seizing Greece assets, import taxes on Greek goods, etc.)...which may eventually result Greece leaving NATO.

American banks really left a cluster fuck here....

Xolodno

As long as Turkey Greece have bone to pick - I doubt Greece will leave NATO anytime soon to be hones - and I do know Turkey are also member of NATO, even it was more because of the border with Russia than anything else - who was in the "soft underbelly" of the then Soviet Union (the border was rather porous, and was going from Turkey true Iran all the way to China more or less, and was one of the reasons the russians build one of the lagerst underground military bases across the border - (Georgia learned that to its peril in 2008) where tonnes of weapons, equipment and fuel was stored, and still are stored in the event of a general war with NATO...

Diclotican

You are assuming too much...which is how things fall apart. Everyone assumes that Greece won't drop out of NATO...which is the EU's trump card....its only a trump card if you can cash in on it. Economics always trumps political loyalties.

First, the Soviet Union is dead. The sooner people realize that the sooner people realize the rules have changed.

Second, Russia is only concerned with their immediate sphere of influence in terms of territory (and economic influence beyond that)...propping up satellite governments has proven too costly and unreliable....so why in the hell would they do that again? Instead, they appeal as a benefactor....if the price is right.

Third, Russia could have been done with this Ukraine issue already...they are the ones stringing this along. Have to ask why. Many on DU who would call me a Putinista will argue how Russia wants to totally regain eastern Europe and its former republics. I call bull shit. Putin only gives a shit about territory when Russia can profit from it, end of story. His other main interest.....eliminate or weaken NATO.

Many here on DU looked at the statements from Russia at the former republics of Lithuania, Estonia, etc. as "imminent invasion"...I call them blithering idiots. Russia was purposely poking them with a stick to get NATO to react. Just to see how "strong" NATO was.....it was weak. That was the point they were trying to make.

Russia has proven or scammed since the collapse of the SU that they only care about its own well being...they don't want military supremacy over the rest of the world (which has become a black eye in the USA). But they will take notice on their borders...and NO nation can fault them for that. Which is why in Europe, more and more of the populace are coming out against the sanctions.

Russia would love a nation to leave NATO...austerity could give Greece a reason to..and everyone assumes they wont...well assuming makes an ASS out U and ME. And as you stated....Turkey is the soft underbelly. Given that Turkey has been a problem child for a long time with NATO....if Greece left NATO...and shit went down between Greece and Turkey...I can pretty much guarantee you NATO will come out as "considering this as issues between two sovereign nations"...and walk away. If the opposite happened...that being Turkey leaving...they would probably come to the aid of Greece given the heartburn Turkey has given them....

...and lets drop the other shoe. The ONLY reason Greece and Turkey became NATO members was due to their strategic position on the Mediterranean. Since Russia isn't interested in subjugating Europe anymore militarily...and is more interested in making them consumers...circumstances change significantly.

Xolodno

I might assume to much - But I doesn't think EU would demand Greece drop out of NATO even if they drop out of EURO zone.... If they do then everyone who have trouble following the strict guidelines when it come to Euro, also have to drop out of NATO - and I doubt we will se any of that anytime soon to be honest... But if Greece was to be punished so hard, even let go out of NATO because they wanted to go out of the Euro-zone - then the whole alliance can be destroyed by the seems - and all 20 member states have to fend for them self after a while.. And that would make Europe a whole more volatile place to be than it already is...

I know the Soviet Union is dead - most of Europe know it is dead - but I doubt Putin know the Soviet Union is dead, as he have stated quite a few times of the years since he was front and center - that the end of the Soviet Union was one of the worst things happening in the 20th century - a century who in many cases had many chatastropnes going all the way from the early 1900s - to the late 1990s... It started with revolutions in the early 1900s - and ended up with revolutions in the late 1990s - and in between it was more tragic things happening on this old Continent than ever before... And in the end the eastern block was no more - that ended in 1989, when the people in each of the countries who was part of the eastern block kind of got tired about how things was run, and deiced to look west to new ideas - and the end proses was clear when even GDR or DDR decided to leave the fold - november 8-9 1989, is one of this days I will never forget - even if I just saw it on TV - when people from east and west Berlin was on the same wall - and literary was tearing it down by their own hands... Thats history in the making right there..

If Russia had the resources to get rid of Ukraine as a problem, they might have been that already - the problem is that if Russia was to get real -and put regular forces on the ground, the whole scam history about the people of eastern ukraine rise up in anger because of the fascists in Kiev would fall on it self - and I doubt Putin want to send regular russian troops and materiel to Ukraine A state Russia in the early 1990s, when Ukraine got its independence from the defaulting Soviet Union, also had Russia, USA, UK and Germany guaranteed for the sovereignty of Ukraine, and all its territory, as a means to let Ukraine get rid of its nuclear weapons who they have inherited from the soviet union.. A deal I suspect Russia under Putin doesn't want to accept as reality anymore.. Putin might get his will when it come to UKraine - most of the russian speaking population is in the eastern part of Ukraine - and most of the country's industry is also in the east - going all the back to the 1920-1930s when Ukraine was hit rather hard by the Stalinist policy of making sure Ukraine got industry - most of the people of russian decent who are in Ukraine today, is from the people who either with brute force - or by them self was traveling to Ukraine in the 1930 and forward - to be part of the "New human" who should replace the old human who once was there.. And we all know, or should know that Stalin was no kind to the Ukraine's - or russians in general - but specially not for the russians who was shuffled around as pleased over the whole union for more than 30 years..

Putin want a weakened NATO, no doubt about it - as his own position are in no way as strong as he wanted it to be, even with the new capabilities the military have shown the last couple of years - Russia is far from the same lion it once was, when it had 100.000 soldiers in East Germany - or had half of the continent under its own controll... Russia today is a weaker nation - who doesn't have the same reputation as it once had - and that really HATE Putin more than everything else in this world - many russians feel they was subjugated greatly in the 1990s - when Russia ended up almost broken up in geographical pieces as the result of the breakup of the Soviet Union.. It was a real fear among many in Europe that Russia could end up breaking up with all the consequences that could be for the nuclear stockpiles around Russia...And Sweden, Finland and Norway made some preparations for the possibility that some ten of thousands of russians was starting to flee the country in the event of a civil war - and had to send (More or less) emergency food rations to some of the biggest city's in Russia - because of the food shortage in the country... The early 1990s was rather devastating for Russia - and the rest of the decade was no party either as economical stagnation - and outright corruption from the top to the bottom was killing any hope of economical recovery... The ruble breakdown in 1994 doesn't helped to much either as most russians was looking at their life savings just going away in the defult.. It was chaos - catastrophically chaos to the end of the decade - something russians have not forgotten, specially as most of the former parts of the eastern block kind of disappeared into the fold of both EU and NATO in the two decades going from 1989 to 2007... At the new-years eve in 1999/2000, Yeltsin suddenly resigned -and a new face was in power - Putin, a younger Putin who few had known outside of Russia before he was catapulted into power more or less on Yeltsin wish late in 1999 - and then replaced Yeltsin, on health reasons as the russian federations president... And compared to Yeltsin - Putin looked rather calm, and clean - something I believed until a friend of me - who know things in Russia better than I do - stated rather clearly that Putin had stolen more than 700 million US dollars, when he was president - and even gave me some evidence for the statment... I was kind of shocked - as he looked to me at least, in his two first periods as President -as a rather clean shaved person, who just wanted to clean up the mess after Yeltsin.. And who also had make sure Russia had the possibility of a better future as the middle class was growing - and most russians looked more happy than before... But in the shadows - the real Putin was lurking - and he was no democrat - rather a autocrat - and also rather authoritarian in his views it looked like... And if half what have been told about him - by many sources - I suspect he regret the fact he was not able to be on the top - as a General of the KGB, rather than a colonel in 1991.. I he had been a general - with real power and some clout - he might believe he would have been able to keep the Union together - not as a weak person like Gorbatsjev (in his views) who gave up the Union when show come to force... But as a strict leader who kept it all together - for another decade or so... It is no sacred - from Putin's own statements over the years that he want a new UNION, between the different parts of the now in depended states.... To make a more solid union, who's command going from Kremlin - to what they could do - and not do... As been to independed...

Putin's - or for the record - not Putin, but some of his ministers, who stated rather clearly last year, when Ukraine was in the spotlight - about the possibility of great dangers for the former union republics, like Lithuania, Estonia - and the like - and something to take seriously -more seriously than you do supposedly - as this countries Do know about what the hammer of Russia is like... And would not accept to be member of a greater Russia anymore than they did when the name of the country was the Soviet Union... And to be just " poke in the chest of NATO" - it was a poke in the chest of NATO who really scared the hell out of the baltic states - and who also had some repercussions for the rest of the alliance.. NATO is not what it once was thats true - But NATO is still shown as a large enemy of Russia - who they fear more than everything else.. And who have made it possible for Putin to play the strong man, who stood up to US, and NATO - even if most of his show of strength is Potemkin games - made up for the most part.... But corned up as Russia is today - it is a dangerous nation, mostly because most russians who remember the 1990s - doesn't want back to that time - and would fight it if necessary with all the tools to their disposal..

Russia have at least for the moment no ambition of world domination like in the old days - but they want to get back in time when Russia mattered in world affairs - and they have shown that time, and time again the last couple of years when they have overflown other nation borders, or at least airspace - and even trained to nuke Stockholm as they did last year - something that made the government worried - and some protesting true official canals.... I'm not sure if Russia noted to much about it, or if they cared at all.. But if Russia miscalculate both Sweden and Finland (who have a few bones to pick with Russia ) might end up in NATO itself - even if Russia would protest and even force the issue military - Finland still have a rather strong military presence because of the experience they had with Russia back in the days - and have continued to be skeptically about everything Russia does near its own borders... Their forreign minister stated it rather clearly back last year to the polish president - that the problem in Ukraine could solve itself easy enough - if Russia was given free hands in the rest of Ukraine - the western part of Ukraine - who once was part of Poland before 1945, when Poland was turned into former german territory - and the eastern part of what today is western part of Ukraine become part of the Soviet Union - and the pepole who had lived there for centuries was given the shoice - be part of the Soviet Union - or be sendt westward, to a un-secured future - in most cases they was not even given that shoice - they was just given a soviet union passport and told they now was russians... The polish Preisdent said No to this swap of land - as every polish should know their history better than give into some old border dispute...

I'm not sure if Greece, even with the austerity will end up exiting NATO - One of the few things that still keep the peace between Greece and Turkey - IS the alliance between them - without one of them being member of the alliance - the other would think they could do anything with the other - specially Turkey who do have a few ambitions in the meditarian sea - at the cost of Greece I would point out.... From the I know about the issue - neither of the two countries want to let go of NATO - even Turkey know if they was to leave the alliance - They would be on their own, as Turkey is given a LOT of resources from the NATO pool to protect its own borders against most other people in the region - and we know both that Turkey is situated in a rather dangerous parts of the World - with Syria and Iraq at it borders... And not to say Russia who do have a long and problematic history with Turkey over the last centuries... And a border who is long and porous and not easy to protect even if they wanted....

We both know why Greece and Turkey are both part of NATO - because of its strategic position in the Mediterranean ocean - even though Greece got in earlier than Turkey did - mostly because of its border with USSR at the time..

I'm not sure if Russia doesn't want to subdue parts of Europe anymore - they way they act in Ukraine - a nation who is absolutely European doesn't look to promising to the idea of Russia just look after itself - and doesn't want to influence others... By its own actions they have proven rather clearly they are back and want a piece of the action even if we doesn't want it...


Diclotican

...but on the other hand:

Germany Is (Almost) Japan: 10Y Bund Yield Plunges To Record 0.33%

30Y German Bund Yield Plunges Under 1% - Record Low

- Decisions, decision.....

K&R

the rest of the country can then secede and is reformed into a new nation though a brief ritual of rebellion with the debt belonging to the one house that yet retains the designation of the original country. Germany could go crazy getting their repayment from Greece while the rest of the country proceeds to escape the global corporatist trap.

spike91nz

Why should Greece be split in two - becouse of the debt? - As Greece historic speaking was far larger than the current state is - parts of what is today Turkey on the european side was until the 1920s part of Grecce - and most of the turkeys icelands in the meditarian was also greece by origin - in fact most of what today is turkey citys on the coast was until 1920s in fact more or less greece by all fashion....

I think Greece and Germany have to sit down, and really work this out - as some others have pointed out - Germany owe Grecce a lot of money form 70 years ago when Germany occupied Greece and randsaced the country for most valuables and was doing it best to wreack havoc to Greece until 1944, when german forces had to leave as the war was not going to well anymore - and Greece was after that war more or less devestated as germans was blowing up everything that could be blown ups - roads, railroad brigdes - homes - everything that could be blown up - was blown up - and thousands of not ten of thousands of pepole was killed either by german regular forces - or by Waffen SS, who dosen't look if the pepole was insurgens or just sivilians...

After the war - and the civil war who also was fougth in Greece from 1945-47 - Germany never paid any restistution to Greece - so this is still a open book for payment - and I suspect with the interst going on 70 years - Greece could have a good lump money to demand from Germany....

Diclotican

Greece for WW2 war reparations, that’ll be a good start. Time to pony up, Ms Merkel.

According to the 1990 treaty, Germany owes no further war reparations. HOWEVER, Germany did force an interest free loan during the war. If the loan is treated as a LOAN and not war looting, then Germany would owe the money for that

Next up, Spain.

And yeah, pay your debts to Greece, Germany. With interest.

perhaps Greece could be operated
more like a territory, but keeping the existing
local governments. I am sure that there are friendly gov'ts
that would chip in to operate the Greek coast guard
and air traffic control.

examples.
Antarctica.
Guam.
American Samoa.
UK channel islands.
there are numerous islands around the world
that are not countries

so they are.

when they can't pay for them

the first one that comes to mind.
are overseas embassies .

The banking and currency crisis that ensues will be your fault and no one else's.

I suggest you direct the ECB to use QE to monetize all Greek government debt. ALL of it.

from WWII that has not been paid.

Experts says the debt is now standing at 12 billion euros.

That is enough to run Greece for 5 years.

Did she manage to say that with a straight face? LOL.

The EU doesn't want Greece anymore. The EU overreached and admitted Greece for political reasons not economic ones. Greece has been and will be a headache (along with Spain) to the EU as long as they are members.

Merkel has to put up a good front, but behind closed doors, Western Europe would be happy to see Greece gone.

Greece's problem is getting new loans to cover a massive budget deficit. I suspect they will be looking to Russia (maybe in exchange for a military base).