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bemildred

(90,061 posts)
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 07:11 AM Feb 2015

Ukraine separatists say they are withdrawing heavy weapons

Source: DPA

Paris (dpa) - The pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine said Tuesday that they are starting a full-scale unilateral withdrawal of their heavy weapons from the front line, while fresh talks on implementing a ceasefire began in Paris.

The self-declared Donetsk People's Republic plans to withdraw 96 artillery howitzers, militia leader Eduard Basurin said according to the rebel-run Donetsk News Agency.

He added that the rebels already withdrew 20 units over the past days.

Ukraine said Monday that it won't withdraw its heavy weapons, citing continued ceasefire violations by the separatists. On Tuesday, the military operations centre said that separatists opened fire 12 times on Ukrainian positions.



Read more: http://www.dpa-international.com/news/international/ukraine-separatists-say-they-are-withdrawing-heavy-weapons-a-44300463.html

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Ukraine separatists say they are withdrawing heavy weapons (Original Post) bemildred Feb 2015 OP
Paris talks aim to save Ukraine peace deal bemildred Feb 2015 #1
The "conflict that raged in Debaltsevo" was truly the Ukranian army surrounded. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #9
... uhnope Feb 2015 #17
There's a time discrepancy. Igel Feb 2015 #18
The encirclement was inevitable - hence the sudden Western powers rush for a ceasefire and a way out. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #20
Over 100 MPs support dismissing NBU head, NGO protest begins on Feb 23 bemildred Feb 2015 #2
Ukraine Rebels Announce Pullback of Heavy Weapons From Frontline bemildred Feb 2015 #3
That's the words. Igel Feb 2015 #19
They are all lying their asses off, if that's what you mean. bemildred Feb 2015 #21
Russian diplomat in Warsaw for bilateral talks bemildred Feb 2015 #4
Serious risks for the transit of Russian gas to Europe bemildred Feb 2015 #5
. nt bemildred Feb 2015 #6
Ukraine's Naftogaz cannot make pre-payments without Gazprom guarantees bemildred Feb 2015 #10
Poland's Sikorski says Putin has 'lost Ukraine' bemildred Feb 2015 #7
E. Ukraine artillery withdrawal focus of Normandy quartet FMs meeting bemildred Feb 2015 #8
Former Governor Rick Perry Issues Statement on Ukraine and Russia bemildred Feb 2015 #11
Ukraine - Declaration of French Foreign Minister about the Normandie format ministerial meeting bemildred Feb 2015 #12
Leading powers seek stepped-up monitoring in Ukraine bemildred Feb 2015 #14
Kerry: Russia has lied about its activities in Ukraine bemildred Feb 2015 #13
Ukraine rebels show withdrawal of weapons; Kiev doubtful bemildred Feb 2015 #15
Britain to help train Ukrainian army to counter Russian threat bemildred Feb 2015 #16

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
1. Paris talks aim to save Ukraine peace deal
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 07:12 AM
Feb 2015

French foreign minister Laurent Fabius will meet with his counterparts from Russia, Ukraine and Germany in Paris on Tuesday for the latest round of talks aimed at saving the fractured ceasefire deal.

The Minsk II agreement, was agreed upon by the leaders and signed by Ukraine and Russia after marathon talks involving French president François Hollande and Germany's Angela Merkel.

But almost immediately after the deal was signed, the conflict raged at the strategic railway hub of Debaltseve.

After another meeting with Merkel in Paris, Hollande told reporters last week that the ceasefire had "been violated several times" and that it must be "fully respected along the entire front line".

http://www.thelocal.fr/20150224/german-ukrainian-and-russian-heads-meet-in-paris

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
9. The "conflict that raged in Debaltsevo" was truly the Ukranian army surrounded.
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 08:28 AM
Feb 2015

It was that strategic loss turning into a slaughter that triggered the rush towards the Minsk Accords.

Which Accords made no mention of the desperate situation at Debaltseve. On purpose, obviously.

Which is the main reason those in the West, especially in media controlled
America, heard and still hear so little of it. The truth of the matter was not fitting in well with the propaganda demonizing the Novoroyssia forces and depicting Ukrainian army forces as Angels.

Of course all wars require a black hat/white hate division or there would be none.

What did the Novoroyssia forces do with the surrounded and demoralized Ukranian force of up to 5000 soldiers?

They offered to let them go home. With their weapons. They left an outlet free.


“When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Igel

(35,362 posts)
18. There's a time discrepancy.
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 08:23 PM
Feb 2015

Noticeable only if you don't focus exclusively on Russocentric news sites.

When the ceasefire was to go into effect, the encirclement wasn't complete. The rebels claimed it was, establishing facts in the narrative (which is to say, virtual facts), but materiel, wounded, etc., were still being removed for hours after the ceasefire was to start. That let them claim that what was going on was just conquering already-held territory--a strange claim, but one that has stopped raising eyebrows when said in Russian or with a Russian accent. ("The gay Jewish fascist" is also something that just prompts heavy-lidded nods from Russian-savvy media watchers, while the "swastika-wielding nationalist Russian democrats" attacking protesters just gets enthusiastic nods on the advance of freedom of speech in Red Square.)

The encirclement was completed after the ceasefire started. Just as the assault on Debaltseve started, really, after the ceasefire. And the assaults on Shirokino were stepped up. And Avdeevka hit by volleys of Grad fire. And the peaceful volleys of artillery fire killed medics evacuating the wounded, as at Ilovaisk, to the sounds of applause of true humanitarians of all orange and black stripes.

Nice that, being Halloween colors. Sort of a shoe-cabbage in color.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
20. The encirclement was inevitable - hence the sudden Western powers rush for a ceasefire and a way out.
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 08:59 PM
Feb 2015

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
2. Over 100 MPs support dismissing NBU head, NGO protest begins on Feb 23
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 07:12 AM
Feb 2015

Over 100 lawmakers from several coalition factions have collected signatures in support of a draft resolution to dismiss Governor of the National Bank of Ukraine (NBU) Valeriya Gontareva.

"Today over 100 signatures of lawmakers from all factions of the coalition has been collected. Members of the MP Control inter-faction MP Union sent four lawmaker addresses to the SBU head regarding the opening of criminal proceedings against NBU top managers for high treason and service negligence," Chairman of the Secretariat of the MP Control Union Vadym Rudenko said at a press conference on Monday.

He also said that from February 23 the collection of signatures to support the dismissal of the NBU head will start across Ukraine.

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/252183.html

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
3. Ukraine Rebels Announce Pullback of Heavy Weapons From Frontline
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 07:13 AM
Feb 2015

DONETSK — Pro-Russia separatists said Tuesday that they had begun withdrawing heavy weapons from the frontline in east Ukraine under a cease-fire deal, but the Ukrainian military, which says it won't pull back until fighting stops, reported further shelling.

Fighting has eased in eastern Ukraine in recent days after the rebels initially ignored a cease-fire that was due to start on Feb. 15 and stormed a government-held town.

After taking the town, the Moscow-backed rebels have consistently indicated they want the truce to take effect. Kiev says the rebels are still shooting, which the rebels deny.

Western countries have not given up on the cease-fire deal to end fighting that has killed more than 5,600 people, but have warned of new economic sanctions against Moscow if the rebels advance deeper into territory the Kremlin calls "New Russia."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/ukraine-rebels-announce-pullback-of-heavy-weapons-from-frontline/516395.html

Igel

(35,362 posts)
19. That's the words.
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 08:30 PM
Feb 2015

OSCE can't confirm either side's pull-back.

http://informator.lg.ua/?p=72007
(Headline: "OSCE doesn't confirm pull-back of heavy weapons in the Donbas." That from an interview with the Ukrainian talk show "Vesti" [which is, of course, pro-Ukrainian, but still in Russian. Something often lost in the other side's narrative.])

Notice what I also pointed out: The Russian side is pretty much in lock-step with the Kremlin, even some "mainstream" media sites have been pretty much brought to heel even if they are still described as "independent" or "opposition." The Ukrainian media, however, is all over the place: Some openly loathe Poroshenko because they support the rebels and others being Poroshenko's a ragdoll. Either way, there's a hefty grassroots and a hefty opposition media in Ukraine, which, for being uberfascist and all that, is a lot more free than the "freedom-loving" Russian state.)

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
21. They are all lying their asses off, if that's what you mean.
Wed Feb 25, 2015, 05:05 AM
Feb 2015

Some are better at it than others. But if they are in politicians, that's what they do. Some do it because they like to, some do it because they are ordered to, but they all lie their asses off at the drop of a hat. Politicians have a strong tendency to view people who are not pretty much like cattle, and to treat them accordingly. Not unlike CEOs.

Winners are always unified/Losers are always divided. It's not a rule, but it's a good heuristic.

The basic problem is they tried to suppress resistance in the East by force and failed. I would personally like to slap the person who decided to try to do that around for a while, just to get their attention. They ought not be anywhere near the levers of power. They have been betting from the beginning on the West coming to the rescue, which shows a deep lack of understanding of the West, which is not in the business of rescuing people and nations, but likes to pretend at times.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
4. Russian diplomat in Warsaw for bilateral talks
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 07:14 AM
Feb 2015

“The talks focused on issues of bilateral cooperation, including issues related to the Smolensk catastrophe, legal and treaty issues, matters relating to diplomatic real-estate and historical policy. The topic of the conflict in Ukraine, and Russia's role in the fulfillment of Minsk agreement was also discussed,” Poland's Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

The 2010 crash of the Polish diplomatic plane in the Russian region of Smolensk saw the death of all 96 people aboard – including then-President Lech Kaczyński and several other top dignitaries.

While both Poland and Russia have concluded their own reports into the accident, the issue is still a bone of contention between the two countries over the cause of the crash.

The situation in Ukraine was also a top priority at the meeting. Poland has been active in humanitarian aid to the combat-afflicted regions of eastern Ukraine.

http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/198088,Russian-diplomat-in-Warsaw-for-bilateral-talks

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
5. Serious risks for the transit of Russian gas to Europe
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 07:15 AM
Feb 2015


Russian news agency RT reported that Ukraine didn’t make timely the advanced payments for gas to Gazprom and the Russian company thinks to terminate the gas supply. The prepaid gas volumes stand at 219 million cubic meters.

On Monday, Ukrainian state energy company Naftogaz accused Gazprom of failing to deliver gas that Kiev had paid for in advance. Naftogaz says Russia has broken an agreement to deliver 114 million of cubic meters of natural gas to Ukraine by delivering only 47 million cubic meters.

The Russia energy company is ready to completely cut Ukraine off gas supplies in two days which will create transit risks for Europe, Gazprom has said. Gazprom's CEO Alexey Miller told journalists today: “Ukraine has not made its gas prepayment on time. As of today, there is only 219 million cubic meters of gas paid for. It takes about two days for [Ukraine’s] Naftogaz to transfer funds to [Russia’s] Gazprom…Therefore, the delivery of gas to Ukraine in the volume of 114 million cubic meters of gas in the next two days already would bring the delivery of Russian gas to Ukraine to a full stop, which will create serious risks for transit gas to Europe.”

The world's biggest gas exporter would be badly hurt by any decision to cut off its main customers in Europe. Twice in the past decade, Moscow responded to natural gas disputes with Ukraine by cutting off supplies, affecting its European clients. Europe is the biggest client of Gazprom as sales to EU countries is the source of 40 percent of company’s revenue.

http://www.neurope.eu/article/serious-risks-transit-russian-gas-europe

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
10. Ukraine's Naftogaz cannot make pre-payments without Gazprom guarantees
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 09:54 AM
Feb 2015

KIEV, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Ukrainian state energy firm Naftogaz said on Tuesday it could not make further pre-payments for Russian natural gas without guarantees from Gazprom that it would stick to an agreement for winter supplies reached last October in Brussels.

"Naftogaz does not consider it possible to make an additional advance payment for the supply of Russian gas until it receives sufficient assurance of strict compliance with the

http://www.trust.org/item/20150224125943-rq1u0/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
7. Poland's Sikorski says Putin has 'lost Ukraine'
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 07:17 AM
Feb 2015

WARSAW, Poland (AP) -- Poland's Parliament speaker says that Russian President Vladimir Putin's support of separatists in eastern Ukraine has backfired on him by stoking greater Ukrainian nationalism elsewhere in the country.

Radek Sikorski, Poland's foreign minister from 2007 until 2014, has for years been a leading critical voice internationally on Russia. As foreign minister he supported efforts in Ukraine to move closer to the West, something that culminated in the Maidan protests last year that angered Moscow.

Sikorski said in an interview late Monday on Polish state television that Putin in a sense has "lost Ukraine because he has against him young Ukrainian nationalists and is met with ever greater resistance."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_POLAND_UKRAINE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-02-24-05-56-45

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
8. E. Ukraine artillery withdrawal focus of Normandy quartet FMs meeting
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 08:03 AM
Feb 2015

The foreign ministers of the so-called Normandy Quartet (France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine) are meeting in Paris to talk about eastern Ukraine. The focus is the withdrawal of heavy weapons by Kiev troops and the rebels.

The artillery pullout is part of the ceasefire deal struck in Minsk earlier in February.

The Donetsk militia has announced it is complying.

“Today at 9 am our units continued the pullback of heavy weaponry from the separation line," said Eduard Basurin, spokesman for the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, Tass news agency reported.

http://rt.com/news/235043-normandy-quartet-weapons-withdrawal/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
11. Former Governor Rick Perry Issues Statement on Ukraine and Russia
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 12:31 PM
Feb 2015

In response to Russia’s increasing military belligerence in Ukraine and threats to expand to other parts of Europe, former Texas Governor Rick Perry has released a video with his take on America’s foreign policy toward Ukraine and what actions the government should take.

---

Perry then listed the action American should take immediately:


Provide lethal aid to the Ukrainians so they can defend themselves.

Increase sanctions, including reconsidering Russia’s continued access to the SWIFT international banking system.

Fast track permits for LNG export facilities on the East Coast to flood the European market with American natural gas.

Lead the debate in NATO to allow a permanent deployment of U.S. and NATO allies to Poland and the Baltics to protect our allies and assets in the area, including U.S. bomber wings in the Baltic republics and permanent U.S. Army forces in Poland.

Conduct port visits by the U.S. Navy in the Baltics.


http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/02/24/former-governor-rick-perry-issues-statement-on-ukraine-and-russia/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
12. Ukraine - Declaration of French Foreign Minister about the Normandie format ministerial meeting
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 12:32 PM
Feb 2015

The Ministers of foreign affairs of France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine met this morning in Paris, in accordance with the decision made by the Heads of State and Government of the “Normandie” format a week earlier.

This meeting followed on from the signing of a “Package of Measures for the implementation of the Minsk agreements” in Minsk and from the Declaration of the Leaders of France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine adopted on 12 February 2015, providing for the establishment of an oversight mechanism in the “Normandie” format.

We exchanged our views on the implementation of the ceasefire. The situation in Debaltsevo has been discussed and particular attention has been given to the situation in the region of Mariupol.

We, the four Ministers call for the strict implementation of all provisions of the Minsk agreements starting from a comprehensive ceasefire and withdrawal of heavy weapons.

We call upon the earliest possible conclusion of the plans for withdrawal of heavy weapons and their full implementation. We ask for a reinforcement of the Special Monitoring Mission of the OSCE and for extending its mandate with the additional personnel, equipment and financing. For this purpose, we are ready to initiate action in Vienna to ensure that this mandate is extended rapidly.

We call upon all parties to ensure full access of OSCE monitors to all areas. We call on all parties to fully cooperate with the OSCE, with a view at fully implementing its mandate, especially regarding the monitoring and verification of the withdrawal of heavy weapons. We invite the OSCE and the JCCC to closely liaise in their respective functions, in order to support the OSCE to monitor and verify the ceasefire and the withdrawal of heavy weapons.

We also call upon the Trilateral Contact Group to establish without delay working groups, in order to achieve progress on a range of issues, including the political process, as agreed in “the Package of Measures”, with the participation of representatives of all signatories of the Minsk agreements.

We underline the importance of unhindered access for humanitarian assistance to all areas.

Lastly, we confirm that France, Germany, Russia and Ukraine remain determined to continue taking action in this format and to do their utmost to ensure that the commitments are upheld and the crisis is resolved.

We task our Political Directors/Deputy Foreign Ministers to oversee the implementation of the Minsk Package and to convene as appropriate. We shall revert to the issue whenever necessary.

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/country-files/ukraine/events-7684/article/ukraine-declaration-of-french

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
14. Leading powers seek stepped-up monitoring in Ukraine
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 12:35 PM
Feb 2015

PARIS, Feb 24 (Reuters) - The foreign ministers of Ukraine, Russia, France and Germany agreed on Tuesday to seek a reinforcement of the international monitoring mission in Ukraine and renewed their calls for an oft-breached ceasefire agreement to be respected.

The meeting of around three hours in Paris was called in a bid to rescue an agreement the four powers brokered this month in Belarus capital Minsk, setting out terms for a ceasefire and the withdrawal of arms in the conflict in east Ukraine between government forces and pro-Russian rebels.

"Against this backdrop we must be more ambitious in how we implement individual steps of the Minsk Agreement," Germany's Frank-Walter Steinmeier told reporters after the meeting, calling the lack of confidence between the two sides "total".

Steinmeier said the four had agreed to call for a one-year extension to the mandate of Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) ceasefire monitors in Ukraine and reinforce their personnel, equipment and funding.

http://www.trust.org/item/20150224144345-h9p05/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
13. Kerry: Russia has lied about its activities in Ukraine
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 12:34 PM
Feb 2015

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Secretary of State John Kerry says Russia has lied "to my face and the face of others on many different occasions" about its activities in Ukraine.

Kerry told a Senate Appropriations subcommittee on Tuesday that Russia is engaged in the biggest propaganda exercise that he's seen since the height of the Cold War. He says Russia has repeatedly furthered "misrepresentations - lies - whatever you want to call them" about its activities there.

Russian President Vladimir Putin denies arming rebels in the war in eastern Ukraine, which has killed more than 5,600 people and forced over a million to flee their homes. The fighting began in April, a month after Russia annexed the mostly Russian-speaking Crimean Peninsula.

Kerry wouldn't say whether he favors giving Ukraine lethal weapons.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_UNITED_STATES_RUSSIA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-02-24-10-59-19

For the record Russia is throwing accusations at the USA too. Not a pretty picture.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
15. Ukraine rebels show withdrawal of weapons; Kiev doubtful
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 01:07 PM
Feb 2015

MAKIYVKA, Ukraine, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Pro-Russia separatists brought reporters on Tuesday to witness the withdrawal of heavy weapons from the front line in east Ukraine under a ceasefire deal, but Ukraine said the rebels were using the cover of the truce to reinforce for another advance.

---

Near Amvrosiyvka, Reuters journalists saw a second convoy carrying 14 howitzers, also heading towards the Russian border.

Rebel commander Eduard Basurin said 90 pieces of artillery would be withdrawn on Tuesday, and different of weapons would be pulled out on different days until all artillery was deployed away from the front in line with the peace deal.

There were no plans for any further military advances, he added: "That's it. We are going no further."

http://www.trust.org/item/20150224161300-yqqpw/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
16. Britain to help train Ukrainian army to counter Russian threat
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 01:08 PM
Feb 2015

LONDON, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Prime Minister David Cameron said on Tuesday Britain would deploy military personnel to Ukraine in the next month to help train the Ukrainian army, warning that Moscow would move to destabilise other countries if left unchallenged.

Cameron made the announcement after pro-Russia separatists brought reporters to witness the withdrawal of heavy weapons from the front line in eastern Ukraine under a ceasefire deal. Ukraine said the rebels were using the cover of the truce to reinforce for another advance.

"Over the course of the next month we're going to be deploying British service personnel to provide advice and a range of training, to tactical intelligence to logistics, to medical care," Cameron told a committee of lawmakers in parliament.

"We'll also be developing an infantry training programme with Ukraine to improve the durability of their forces," he added, stressing British personnel would be a long way from any front line and not be involved in combat operations.

http://www.trust.org/item/20150224163730-y0rpl/

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