The finding that Venezuela constitutes a security threat to the United States is absolutely insane, and smacks of the long history of U.S.-backed coups in Latin America. Okay, you don't like Maduro, and Chavez. How can the U.S. move be remotely justified, or seen as anything other than a threat from a proven predator?

It's a meaningless from the US standpoint, but it allowed Maduro to rule by decree and talk about the US as the source of all their problems for the next 6 months.

Frankly, Christmas came early for Maduro.

could have made. Achieves absolutely nothing and it gives Comandante Gasbag an excuse to get the right to rule Venezuela by decree. And don't believe for a second that it will only be for 6 months. Dollars to donuts the captive National Assembly will gladly prolong DimSuccessor's decree powers indefinitely.

President Obama only makes stupid moves and decisions...because COLGATE4 says so - becz COLGATE4 has inside information to make that CLAIM - pray tell COLTATE4 - where you comin' from with your ASSumption? - RW I am Assuming -

Dollars to donuts - I will bet my Assuming is closer to the TRUTH than your Assuming is to your claim of stupid!

Welcome to my Ignore list. Enjoy your stay on DU.

If Venezuela is a threat to the US, I'm Captain Kangaroo. They can't even wipe their asses right now. No one is willing to do business with them. They are not going to invade, or send up terrorists. Maybe the influx of refugees from VN MIGHT be too much for immigration to handle? Could that be it?
But declaring Venezuela a threat is as dumb of a move as declaring the Axis of Evil. But you're right. Reindeer are flying over Caracas.

a 2014 piece of legislation.

obviously his choice. Seems counterproductive to me to have put it in place right now.

When the world's only Superpower declares you a threat. It sends a clear signal that anyone else attempting to help them or trade fairly with them will be aiding and abetting one of their sworn enemies.

What is the threat exactly? Maybe next we will hear on Fox News that they have WMDs? The only threat Venezuela is, or was, is that if they ever succeeded in establishing a working viable left-of-center government in South America, it gives hope to other SA people to shake off their own economically colonialist oligarchies. And they can't have that.

It's like waving a red flag - Maduro! Maduro! Pay no attention to your own government's warlike move, on no basis whatsoever.

Can't you guys find any commies closer to home to worry about? Like under your beds?

and their blind allegiance to anything and anyone anti-American. It makes for entertaining threads.

and their blind allegiance to anything concocted by these international capitalist interest mouth pieces to prop up the narrative of the evil socialists.

And then they roll out Ann Coulter's tired old favorite accusation of anyone displeased with the way the CIA, the IMF and the rest of the International Capitalist Libertarians, along with the old money of Venezuela have worked for over a decade now to destabilize the Venezuela economy......is.....wait for it........Anti-American.

It really does have to do with the naive defense of an obviously incompetent, corrupt, and stridently anti-US "socialist" government.

"anti-US" means the same as "socialist" ?

that's how the State Department, the MIC, the Corporate class view it, or at least project their "truthiness" about it. Any world government that even sniffs at nationalization, or redistributing wealth back from the top down, after decades siphoning dollars the other way, is a not only a thorn, but a domino threat. So these billionaires tell their MSM friends to scream about the eeeeeeeeeeevil socialists and how simply defending themselves against the economic warfare that is being waged openly as well as covertly is translated as "anti-US" and people like you fall for it. Unfortunate that you can't differentiate between the two yourself.

It has a "socialist" government, a label that generates reflexive support from the naive and ill-educated who ignore the utter chaos those "socialist" policies have created.

I'd be embarrassed to support a government that demonstrates such utter incompetence, but it's the "socialist" label that counts to the cult of Chavez and not the reality on the ground.

Which ones are those?


His reducing the poverty rate by astounding numbers?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/11/what-is-going-on-in-venezuela/

There has been a drop in poverty by over ½ and extreme poverty by 70% since the 1998 electoral victory of Chávez. The access to education and healthcare has been huge. This is also true in terms of access to food and food security. There has been a major increase in caloric intake, from 2000 to 3000 calories per capita per day, while both the quality and quantity of food has increased.


His recognition of indigenous population's rights?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/11/what-is-going-on-in-venezuela/

According to Professor Palmar, there have been positive changes for Indigenous peoples since Chavez came to power in 1999. For one, she explained that, for the first time ever, the rights of Indigenous peoples has been enshrined in the popularly-approved Constitution of 1999, a Constitution which also guarantees Indigenous representation at the national, state and local levels.

Professor Donna Lee Van Cott, in her article "Andean Indigenous Movements and Constitutional Transformation: Venezuela in Comparative Perspective," echoes this view. As Van Cott relates, under Chavez, Venezuela went from being one of the most backwards countries in terms of Indigneous rights to one of the most progressive ones. She explains that the changes brought on by the Chavez revolution

enabled Venezuelan Indians to obtain a constitution containing the region's most progressive indigenous rights regime. Venezuelan constitution-makers incorporated most of the symbolic and programmatic rights that neighboring constitutions recognize . . . , while making several interesting innovations - such as guaranteeing political representation at all levels of government (Art. 125) and prohibiting the registration of patents related to indigenous genetic resources or intellectual property associated with indigenous knowledge (Art. 124) . . . . Symbolic achievements - rhetorical recognition of Venezuela as a 'multiethnic and pluricultural state,' and recognition of their special status by dint of including a separate chapter on 'Rights of the Indigenous Peoples' - may be enjoyed immediately. As in the other Andean cases, however, most programmatic rights require future legislation.

Professor Palmar told me that, indeed, further legislation on Indigenous rights has been forthcoming, including on her most cherished issue - that of the protection and fortification of Indigenous languages. For example, the Law of Indigenous Languages, which expressly calls for the preservation of Indigenous languages, was passed in 2008.


His positive influence and empowerment throughout in the rest of South America?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/hugo-chavez-humble-man-who-transformed-the-world/5325791

We have to remember that his election as president of Venezuela in 1999 set the stage for, heralded, a whole series of election victories and transformations throughout Latin America, Central as well as South America, in countries like Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, Brazil, Nicaragua, El Salvador, that he himself was the prime mover in setting up what is known by the acronym of ALBA (The Bolivarian Alliance for the Peoples of Our America) that he was a prime mover in setting up something by the acronym of CELAC (the Community of Latin American and Caribbean States), the Bank of the South, TeleSur (the television network for South America).

It was this one man instrumental in turning the tide of Latin America and in many ways of the southern hemisphere of the world that has been wracked by the neoliberalism of the 1990s.


Skills education and free medical services?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/feb/02/venezuela-hugo-chavez-anniversary-election

The literacy campaign, known as Mission Robinson, has reached millions of people of all ages. Other occupational classes teach carpentry, auto repair and other skills to help people gain employment. Programmes in education and literacy have lowered Venezuela's poverty rates by giving citizens new skills to improve their standard of living.

Nearby the literacy classrooms were the octagonal health clinics that are located throughout the country. In the clinics, Cuban doctors offer emergency medical care, vaccinations, check-ups and medicine for common illnesses. Free healthcare improves the quality of life for many Venezuelans. The work of Cuban doctors in Venezuela's new clinics and healthcare systems has allowed for the quick expansion of services. In some cases, poor families are able to visit the doctor or a dentist for the first time in generations.

..................

Also lets not forget these leaders were voted in. Using international election observer groups that were praised for there scrutiny. Something the US still does not even allow. So by extension you are insulting the intelligence of all Venezuelans.

Murado and Chavez before him are battling the biggest and most powerful and ruthless army in the history of the world. The global Capitalist oligarchy, which have only become stronger in the last 30 years. So it may just well turn out to be a losing battle. What you say is "incompetence" is more realistically desperate reactions, some might say over-reactions to these threats. Both leaders have felt the need to consolidate and centralize power at times as a direct result of the onslaught by the world's elite. Is that a good thing? Maybe not, but there comes a time when if its a choice between rolling over and allowing Venezuela to fall back into a Capitalist monarchy beholden to the world powers to survive, I don't blame them for having to put their foot down.

But to suggest or imply that Venezuelans would be somehow better off when the US and its IMF corporate allies finally wrestle back controlling political power in that country with a puppet installed like the former US friendly austerity-happy right wing President Carlos Andres Perez, who Chavez toppled, then there's no point in arguing with you.

because of all those "socialist" policies. Venezuelans must be real happy about their situation these days.

Oh, and it's not the intelligence of all Venezuelans I'm insulting. All Venezuelans didn't vote for Maduro.

And no, only according to your limited cognitive ability that it must be us vs them, black vs. white, socialist paradise or fascist dictatorship. There is no "socialist paradise". It may not be ever possible to sustain a pure socialist run country. Because of a number of reasons. First and foremost, the world is set up as Capitalist. And they would never be allowed to be successful, as witnessed in the backlash at Venezuela's attempts to even try. The closest to gaining the benefits of socialism, in a Capitalist world, is found more in countries like Sweden where it is a mixed economy, setting aside things like health, education, immigration, security, as important enough to not be beholden to a profit margin, and paying middle men executives, and shareholders, and also these are things that need stability and efficiency and to be spread out fairly . So these things are run by everyone..through their taxes and administered by government.

Other parts of the economy are run privately. Venezuela was never a pure socialist country and is not, but those policies I listed, are a push to create a mixed system where through a socialist avenue, many more citizens can be lifted from poverty, can be educated, can see a doctor. All these new benefits lift many on the bottom to the middle. Now they can start paying tax and buying goods...(still in a for the most part, a Capitalist economy) and this strengthens the country as a whole. There is only catastrophe waiting if we continue to allow the rich to get richer and the poor poorer, which is a growing trend the world over. In Venezuela, at least they have been reversing this trend. It may not last much longer. There has always been an established assumption amongst the elite, especially from the US, that South America is still a colonial backwater that is only there to plunder. Chavez dared to demand otherwise, so he and his party will have to be punished, along with the population.

With the full weight of international old money Capitalist families not wanting this government to succeed, and doing all they can to destabilize, and create discomfort for the population, the government will naturally wear down and react angrily, and sometimes strictly, against perceived threats. It would make anyone paranoid. But once again, nothing is black or white. You must look at comparison of this kind of strong arming in order to retain a fairer society, to the Pinochet style (I know he's from another country) that would gladly march in and take over with the world's elite's blessing. That is the alternative that awaits these people if enough of the world looks the other way or cheerleads the besmirchment of the incredible social gains that country has bravely pushed forward against incredible pressures, both covert and overt, aided and abetted by the US media and bought and sold puppets in government.

The reason a lot of Venezuelans are not happy, is that they are under attack by the world's real power brokers, for daring to thumb their noses at the old colonial power structures and take back control and share some of that wealth that has been only going one way...out of the country...back to the people that actually live in that country.

For someone blathering on about "limited cognitive ability", you certainly exhibit binary thinking about the root cause of the problems in Venezuela. It's all the fault of the big meany "Capitalists".

Have you ever been to Venezuela, or do you make such interpretations and assertions by what you read on independent reporting sources like Counterpunch and Venezuelanalysis?

If not, maybe you shouldn't be commenting on anything that goes on there either eh?

Your weak one liners are hardly a response and don't go a long way to elevating my opinion on your cognitive powers.

And yes, it is the "meany" Capitalists. There are some moderate, reasonable, compassionate ultra wealthy Capitalists like Warren Buffet, or Bill Gates. But like any group, there are also some who value greed and their own self bestowed entitlement over the comfort some impoverished powerless class of people in some other part of the world. They don't want to give an inch, and took it as an act of war when Chavez started clamping down on their own unfettered money-making playground. You don't think that some of the more rabid assholes of that group would be above funding and supporting any and all actions to get their playground back? Look at some of the families of the dispossessed Cuban elite in Florida...they're still steaming mad. All the world's money and power and a heck of a lot of politicians are on their side...why would you think they wouldn't try?

by your response, and I daresay nowhere close to South America. And so that makes you a regional expert, just like DU's resident LatAm spammer.

I suggest you put boots on the ground there sometime. It might add to your perspective.

Oh, and I've been to Washington. Plenty of times. Both the state and DC.

about their own country? How do you explain that?

There are far more who can't be bothered to pay attention than there are who do feel it's necessary to be conscious.

Your insult you throw at everyone you suspect hasn't been in Latin America, to try to devaluate their comments, doesn't seem to have much value.

Lotsa people everywhere who don't know what's going on anywhere at all. Their "boots on the ground" mean nothing.

Because it would give one a broader perspective?

Why are you so vehemently opposed to gaining some education and experience by foreign travel?

All it would reveal is the degree of crapola some posters spam discussion threads with.

You've been to Washington so you are an expert there...great!

Please list all the other cities and/or countries in the world you have not laced up your boots and set to pavement. Just so I can know which posts to scroll past. Not that you'd ever "spam" a thread with your opinions on an OP like that I assume based on your prerequisites for others.

I read and research many sources. You'd think with the sad and sullied history of American CIA covert action in Chile and other SA countries that it wouldn't be that much of a leap to consider there are efforts being made to dismantle a government that openly thumbs their noses at American, and multinational dominance. But each person can interpret what they research in their own way. So you've come to a different conclusion. I don't know exactly what you believe. That the CIA and multinationals, after Pinochet, sat down and said, "hey guys, I guess we screwed up, I feel really bad, lets just never go into South America ever again ok?"

This red herring of attacking the messenger to deflect your reactionary attitude is telling. You are running out of rope. But I'll stop. As of now you only have 1 rec for your brilliant OP and "lout" comment. I'll just let this thread die in the garbage where it belongs.

In the future stick to discussing the thread topic instead of making pejorative remarks about "limited cognitive ability" and broad-brushed assertions like "...people like you fall for it", unless you're looking for some special attention.

I'll let others define someone that still hasn't had the capacity to respond with any thought to my points about either what Chavez had accomplished, or the asshole who he replaced, or the proven meddling of the CIA in the past.

Yours is a creative, though unsupported allegation.

Not half as entertaining, but twice as predicable-- as is most banality.

and choses to ignore me rather than defend his comment - so noted RW idiocy....

Thanks Comrade Grumpy - my same sentiments....they are one hit wonders and then they run!

It amuses them, and their FR posts on the same topic just don't have that extra sizzle.

Googled for precise meaning, although it verified the phrase means 'Who is more macho?' as I thought. Don't know why these results appeared. Loads slow, but it's funny:

http://norewardisworththis.tumblr.com/

Although I did see a Venezuelan looking type person wearing sunglasses on the street, about a mile from the airport yesterday.

That's the Republican meme.

But I am having trouble seeing how Venezuela could possibly be a threat to the US right now, they aren't even in a position to wipe their own asses.

That should be sufficient to rate a Boehner/McConnell invitation to address a joint session of Congress.

He'd be out of place among those demagogues, however.

He is indeed a lout.

Droning babies and mommies is the loutiest thing of all.


Thank you. I knew you could do it......

nor am I all that interested. But, it might be a more or less pro forma declaration necessary to expedite certain diplomatic actions. Or, and this is highly speculative, Venezuela has been accused by some of exporting uranium to Iran. I don't know if that's true. It seems like conspiracy theory. But, Iran and Venezuela do have decent relations, and Venezuela does have uranium deposits (as does Iran). I don't know.

Venezuelan president calls for 'frank' dialogue with US
Xinhua, March 14, 2015

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro Friday urged the United States for "frank dialogue", calling it an opportunity for his U.S. counterpart to correct an earlier misstep that raised tensions between the two countries.

"I reach out to the U.S. government, to work together towards frank dialogue and solutions based on international law, founded on mutual respect, so we can rectify this serious problem that has been created," Maduro said during a televised broadcast of an official event.

Maduro said President Barack Obama was surrounded by advisers who have misinformed him about Venezuela's situation, and advised him not to be deceived by Washington's right-wing lobbyists trying to affect bilateral ties.

In announcing the third set of sanctions against the South American country, Obama on Monday issued an executive order claiming "the situation in Venezuela ... constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States, and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat."

More:
http://www.china.org.cn/world/2015-03/14/content_35051901.htm

Chavez was very supportive of Obama, indicated he had high hopes for him & the direction of the country.

There was no reason for him to treat him as if he was some tyrant then came the senseless criticism over diplomatic relations with our rivals & accusation they were providing aid & support to rebel drug traffickers. I don't understand or if the US was in good faith why they couldn't address this directly or come together.

When it comes to Columbia I have no idea what the truth is. I imagine cocaine movers in Venezuela work together with cocaine movers in Columbia but when I look at the list of belligerents I see numerous private militias that drug traffic on the same side as the government. So what is really going on? The US is either doing a very horrible job, the greedy rich who influence foreign policy want a piece of the action like any venture capitalist considering the enormous profits, or probably more likely there is more to it than "narco-terrorism".

What I do know is you can trace the armed conflict in Columbia to the assassination of a populist. US without fail, always allies with the right wing government or the right wing in a dispute of a foreign nation. My guess is the US is assisting the Columbia government to privatize Columbia. Other than the once in a blue moon mention "US aiding the Columbia government in its fight against narco-terrorism." I never hear of the country.

In the Snowden archive, DEA doubles as a spy organization. US benefits when countries with a drug trafficking problem don't see the harm in bringing in help from the DEA but they don't know what else they're doing. This was learned in literally everything electronically possible was possible in one of those vacation islands. Can't remember the name, except the mention that Bill Gates & Oprah Winfrey visited. This revelation hurts "national security" depending on how much self-defense spying the US really needs to engage in.

Chavez actually verified this years ago. Now you start seeing some things come full circle
VENEZUELA
Accusations that DEA Involved in Espionage in Venezuela Baseless
U.S. Desire to Continue Counternarcotics Efforts
Steady Deterioration in Venezuelas Commitment on Counternarcotics
http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2005/50883.htm

In terms of what is going on in the world there is no reason why the US can't communicate in a rational, responsible, & credible way. Instead, public heated rhetoric, misleading or hypocritical claims. Omits significantly. I notice a lot of US citizens has a blind spot when it comes to the US, domestic-wise US is easily a top 20 country.. outside its borders I wish more people could see the US foreign policy for what it really is combined with its influence. There is a reason why Venezuela scored one of the lowest (if not the lowest) in the perception survey I looked at outside of Southwest Asia. (Russia, China, or some countries I was very interested in weren't polled).

of Hugo Chavez.

Don't forget the fact Venezuelan people hated Richard M. Nixon when he took his grand tour of Venezuela in 1958, and they stormed into the streets of Caracas and rioted around his car:

[center]





[/center]
Someone's been shoving others around a long, long time.

Yep, you nailed it.

Last edited Sat Mar 14, 2015, 07:44 AM - Edit history (1)

I can take Maduro's as straight-forward, Obama or anyone speaking for the US as President his hypocritical at-best if he is legitimately bothered -- I'd be very interested in what evidence each other has in accusing the other.

My first impression was paranoia though in different words was making a "national security" case against those who he accused of planning a coup or in-the-process of one. US reacting in response in that doesn't help.

It is like both are using the excuse of each other to perform their duties questionable, in Obama's case, the "state of national emergency" 2 decades long but including Venezuela recently.

The White House said the decision to impose the executive order was a response to “the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by” the South American country.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-declares-venezuela-national-security-threat-imposes-sanctions

Are you serious? As a government, I seriously doubt they'll launch a preemptive strike. I don't know of any organization out there credibly planning & threatening attacks. Our own police are more of a national security threat or they treat its population like a national security threat. I saw the recent Vice episode on HBO, I wish they spent more time overall but more on the Fergeson response by the police itself, the few clips I saw were very ugly but did learn the 1033 program was started by Reagan & Bush1, contractors develop their gear or saw massive expansion in the program. Fergeson cops were driving Blackwater (renamed Academi) tanks.

I can only speculate what's behind the rhetoric, I'm just certain if Maduro embraced Shell & Exxon Mobile, turned Venezuela into Saudi Arabia or Nigeria, US wouldn't give a rats ass about human rights & free speech. As far as Maduro, unless there is some probable evidence, he is overreacting due to paranoia but US constantly argues they need to defend themselves and cry "national security" as if they're country with decades of armed conflict tearing its country apart.

Don't mind me, I don't know what it is going on or pretend to know whats going on. I just know enough the US isn't being 100% or if they are -- then they're incredibly inconsistent remarkably varying depending on amount of proven oil reserves & freedom they give to multinationals.

He should stay home.

First reaction is to ignore stupid behavior. He may have already exhausted this strategy.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Smug call for the assassination of an elected leader in a military coup d'etat.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 15, 2015, 02:36 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not a call for an assassination, smug or otherwise. It's merely an acknowledgement of the possibility.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is an offensive post.

That is NOT a reason to hide it. I am guessing the alerter knows this, as they attempt to "spin" the post into something it is not in an attempt to sway the jury. This is NOT a call to assassinate anyone. Saying that it is offends my senses more than the post itself did.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Considering the way things seem to be going in Venezuela these days, poster may not be far off the mark. Vote to Leave.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: What? This poster is not calling for the assassination of an elected leader. This poster is making a comment-in-passing that it might be a bad idea. Wow. Holy cow. We really should not try to infer quite so much from one or two sentence comments.

after an red flag is inserted to Venezuelan delegation travelling to Washington D.C.

Or FAA can refuse the overflight to the U.S.