Secret Nazi hideout believed found in remote Argentine jungle
Source: Washington Post
Morning Mix
By Terrence McCoy March 23 at 4:13 AM
@terrence_mccoy
They called them ratlines. ... In the final days of the Third Reich, when its demise was imminent, adherents realized that if they didnt escape they would go down with it. So they devised a system of escape ratlines that funneled thousands of war criminals through Spain to points west and south. Abetted by Third Reich sympathizers, many swarmed into South America, beginning new lives from Brazil to Argentina.
Argentina is now where myths, rumors and historical facts of that time collide. The stories say Nazis arrived by rubber dinghies off of the coast of Patagonia, bedraggled from the long journey. The stories say crates of Nazi gold hit the beaches, then vanished into the foggy Andes Mountains. The stories say Hitler himself found new life in an Argentine idyll, doddering peacefully in the Andean foothills attended by faithful Nazi servants.
....
According to a fresh discovery announced over the weekend, its also true the Nazis made it deeper into the Argentine jungle in search of refuge than anyone imagined. Hundreds of miles north, along the border with Paraguay, rises the Parque Teyú Cuare. A path winds into the nature preserve, opening to a trove of mysterious buildings that are battered by time, reported the Argentine newspaper Clarin. What were these buildings? Who built them? For what?
It now appears there may be an answer. According to a team of Argentine researchers led by Daniel Schavelzon of the University of Buenos Aires, the three buildings were built by Nazis. The signs are everywhere. The team found several German coins with dates between 1938 and 1944. They found some German porcelain engraved with Made in Germany. And perhaps most telling, they found Nazi symbols, including a swastika, were etched into the buildings.
Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/23/secret-nazi-lair-believed-found-in-remote-argentine-jungle/
Ratlines
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Cruz is many vile things, but anti-Semitic is one he is not.
Save the Nazi references to where they belong or they cease to have meaning.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Thank you.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Do not limit the danger they posed, the depth of their evil, nor their full range of destruction they caused to many others who were not Jewish.
It seems that some here equate Nazism = Antisemitism exclusively. Not only is that wrong, it ignores other, more long term dangers that fascism and Nazism represent, even to this day. I know it is convenient to do so, but it represents really limited thinking, and ignores dangers that are as bad as what Germany did to its own Jewish citizens without an apparent single regret. (Which is also untrue).
former9thward
(32,051 posts)It would have taken enormous resources to chase down Nazis, even Hitler himself, in South America. Plus various nations were using Nazi scientists for their own purposes. There have been several recent books on Nazi activity in S. American countries after WW II and the paths they took to get there. Interesting history.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,564 posts)Lionel Mandrake
(4,076 posts)Nor is it terribly accurate. For example, the German V2 program was not, as the video asserts, "the biggest construction project of World War Two". A more reliable source
http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/nazis-in-space.html
states that "According to historian Steven J Zaloga, the A4 missile project cost Germany the equivalent of $2 billion (1945 values, and roughly the same as the Allies spent on the Manhattan Project)". For comparison, the B-29 program cost about $3 billion.
Furthermore, for a ballistic missile to break the sound barrier was not a big surprise. It was stupidly obvious.
It's easy to poke fun at von Braun. I do it myself. But to be serious (for once), I should point out that von Braun joined the NSDAP and even the SS to protect his ass, not because he believed their propaganda. If he had declined Himmler's invitation, von Braun would probably not have survived the war.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)admired by the locals, who didn't differentiate between the two. They found the Germans to be industrious, smart and blond. This is why the Nazis could blend in so well. I found myself on occasion at a dinner party talking to a German immigrant, usually employed as an engineer, who turned out to be a bona fide Nazi. When I informed my American dad with whom I met at dinner, he would shrug his shoulders and say that down here no one cared, so it would be really hard for American authorities to find them and get them extradited.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)They said the allies got most of the people they wanted to hang, and at the point they got to on the list they weren't even 100% sure the people they were looking for existed in the first place. They also said a lot of the nazis who fled weren't necessarily war criminals or even worth debriefing, they were just terrified of being captured by the soviets.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)I was recently in New Mexico and went to the Air & Space Museum tide to the White Sands missile test site/Trinity Site. It's practically a shrine to Von Braun and other Nazis. Made me a bit ill.
Lionel Mandrake
(4,076 posts)I know of one who is honored by Yad Vashem.
See post number 20 concerning von Braun.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)But the V2 program used massive slave labor from the Mittelbau-Dora concentration camp.
Von Braun repeatedly visited the Dora-Mittelwerk facility in the Harz Mountains near Nordhausen, where concentration camp laborers were forced to assemble V-2 ballistic missiles
If Von Braun was a decent guy, he would have died rather than participate in this.
Lionel Mandrake
(4,076 posts)But how many people would choose death rather than go along with the system? I'd say von Braun was more a bystander than a perpetrator, but the point is debatable, and he probably would have been tried as a war criminal if it weren't for Operation Paperclip.
Historic NY
(37,452 posts)Looks like it might have been a safe house site until proper identifications and documents were made so they could intergrate into society there.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)to World War 2? I've traveled around the area a fair amount and always used to be surprised at the number of really good German and Italian restaurants, and how European a lot of South American cities feels in their architecture and layout. In a lot of places, you'll find way more Italian/German food than you'll find Spanish or indigenous types of food.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)In addition to immigrants moving to Argentina, the German army influenced the Argentine Army, while the British Royal Navy influenced the Argentine Navy.
In the decades prior to WWI & WWII both England and Germany, along with Italy and France to a lesser degree often sold military equipment and sent advisers to help train the militaries of various foreign countries. China was another major customer of Germany prior to WWII
Cleita
(75,480 posts)overwhelming. An American school friend of mine, who was of Austrian ethnicity, said she felt quite at home there surrounded by fair, blue eyed people, who looked like her, and who spoke German. Most had immigrated before there were Nazis. But the German settlements made it easy for post war Germans running from the allies to blend in, often with family members who had immigrated decades before.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)but then, if it weren't for the captured scientists where would US military be?
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When the next mass bug-out occurs, where will all the latter-day Nazis go?
Not South America....they will not be welcomed in the Bolivarian revolutionary states.
Not Russia or the Balkans, and who would want to go to Ukraine, since it is basically being destroyed by local neo-Nazis real time.
Asia is unlikely...
Probably the USA. As part of the 1%.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)It was a fictionalized version of the German rocket scientists brought over here post WWII.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Even when I saw Monuments Men, I was in tears.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)..."along the border with Paraguay."
The Bush Family Evil Empire (BFEE) has purchased many thousands of acres in Paraguay.
It seems likely that the old Nazis or their kids would would look up their close friends, business Partners, and family in the Bush Family's Retreat in Paraguay .
First Speaker
(4,858 posts)...once, I would have put the probability at about 99.9%; it seemed so closed an issue that I hardly gave it a thought, and I love historical mysteries. Now, I'd put it at about 80%, no more. All of the forensic evidence has basically evaporated, and the witness testimony is shaky. Some of it. I still think the strong likelihood is that he died in Berlin in 1945...but it's no longer certain in my mind...
former9thward
(32,051 posts)The Russians claim they found a piece of the skull. They had it in Moscow for decades and when the Soviet Union collapsed it was finally tested. The skull was from a young woman. The surviving people in the bunker claimed that Hitler and Braun were burned by soldiers. That story can be disproved by anyone who operates a crematorium. It takes a lot of heat to incinerate a human body. They claimed they threw a few cans of gas on the bodies --which is all they could find. A few cans of gas would do nothing to the bodies except burn the outside skin. So where were the bodies? The Soviets had assembled a specialized team to enter the bunker and find Hitler or his remains.
Both Eisenhower and Stalin disbelieved the bunker story because they said they had seen no evidence to support it.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)George Bush and Dick Cheney were hiding there after 9/11/2001?