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Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 03:24 AM Apr 2015

EU had ‘issues’ with German air safety before Alps crash

Source: France 24

The European Aviation Safety Agency had voiced concerns over Germany's "non-conformity" with air safety rules before the Germanwings air crash which killed 150 people, especially on air crew health monitoring, a spokesman told AFP Saturday.

Andreas Lubitz, the co-pilot suspected of deliberately crashing a Germanwings airliner on March 24, had searched online for information about suicide and cockpit doors, according to prosecutors.

German prosecutors have said Lubitz was diagnosed as suicidal "several years ago", before he became a pilot.

According to Saturday's edition of the Wall Street Journal, "EU officials said Germany's air-safety regulator suffered from chronic staffing shortfalls that could undermine its ability to run checks of carriers and crew, including medical checks."


Read more: http://www.france24.com/en/20150404-eu-german-air-safety-crash/



Oh, là là. La merde frappe la ventilateur...
(Shit hitting fan)

It just keeps going from bad to worse for Lufthansa.


"...concerns over air crew health monitoring..."


On the very day of the crash, CEO Carsten Spohr reassured the grieving families and public that: "Lubitz was 100% fit to fly" and that "Safety is Lufthansa's N° 1 concern".
18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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EU had ‘issues’ with German air safety before Alps crash (Original Post) Surya Gayatri Apr 2015 OP
National pasttime here unfortunately DFW Apr 2015 #1
Well, this has been patently on-show in the last week or two... Surya Gayatri Apr 2015 #2
Germany definitely has two types DFW Apr 2015 #3
Froh das zu hören... Surya Gayatri Apr 2015 #4
It sounds like Germany has a mix similar to US of normal folks and pompous asses groundloop Apr 2015 #7
The mix IS similar DFW Apr 2015 #10
Funny, I'm German, and grew up there Blaukraut Apr 2015 #17
I've been here for years, and am married to a German DFW Apr 2015 #18
has there been anything more about his vision problems? magical thyme Apr 2015 #5
Have seen nothing more...there are increasing reports Surya Gayatri Apr 2015 #6
Certainly this will start much debate concerning privacy rights vs. safety concerns groundloop Apr 2015 #8
Obviously, this is a debate that will have to be had. Surya Gayatri Apr 2015 #9
mental health issues aside, what the fuck was somebody half-blind doing piloting a plane? magical thyme Apr 2015 #11
Well, you'd think so, wouldn't you? Surya Gayatri Apr 2015 #12
there are mandatory vision tests to get a driver's license and pilot's license. magical thyme Apr 2015 #13
Hey, I'm with you...LOL! But for some, that's a report too far! Surya Gayatri Apr 2015 #14
You don't have all the facts on pilot requirements groundloop Apr 2015 #15
I don't "self-report" the vision test for my driver's license renewal. magical thyme Apr 2015 #16

DFW

(54,436 posts)
1. National pasttime here unfortunately
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 03:34 AM
Apr 2015

Germany tends to paper over deficiencies by trotting out pompous officials in suits to say how well they're doing at everything, and woe betide anyone who dares say otherwise.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
2. Well, this has been patently on-show in the last week or two...
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 03:43 AM
Apr 2015
'trotting out pompous officials in suits', I mean.

And this, in Germany, which prides itself on its efficiency and capability, often with a rather supercilious cocked eyebrow at less 'orderly' nations.

Ah, hubris, does it know no bounds?

DFW. Wie gehts?

DFW

(54,436 posts)
3. Germany definitely has two types
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 04:47 AM
Apr 2015

We have a circle of friends who are just normal, regular people. But there are still many who have inherited the old Prussian superiority complex, with an "Ordnung muss sein (there must be order)" view of the world, and only care about the appearance of order. They may be right that most other nations are less "orderly," but that doesn't give them the right to prance about saying that their self-granted image of perfection is accurate when they're as fallible as anyone else. Plenty of Germans do NOT have this attitude, but hubris does abound, unfortunately.

Heute geht's gut, danke. Morgen, wer weiß?

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
4. Froh das zu hören...
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 05:34 AM
Apr 2015

Morgen wird für sich selbst sorgen!

I don't really know this much German--but Google does! LOL!

groundloop

(11,521 posts)
7. It sounds like Germany has a mix similar to US of normal folks and pompous asses
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 08:47 AM
Apr 2015

And unfortunately, all it takes is a few of the pompous assholes in positions of power to royally screw things up for the rest of us.



DFW

(54,436 posts)
10. The mix IS similar
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 09:11 AM
Apr 2015

As for pompous assholes in positions of power, that has been the bane of mankind since before the Roman Emperors. It is disheartening to see that as a species, we haven't learned much in the meantime. If the Republicans ran a ticket of Sarah Pailn and Michele Bachmann in 2016, they'd get 40% of the vote no matter what.

Blaukraut

(5,693 posts)
17. Funny, I'm German, and grew up there
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 08:18 PM
Apr 2015

I find no difference between Germans and their hubris as compared to other Europeans and theirs. As a matter of fact, if I were hard pressed to choose who is worse, I'd have to say - from personal experience - that the Brits lead the charge, followed by the French, with the Germans making up the meek and cowed tail end of the queue. We were taught (and taught well) by the rest of Europe not to put on any airs, lest we wanted to be labeled Nazis.

DFW

(54,436 posts)
18. I've been here for years, and am married to a German
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 03:59 AM
Apr 2015

I find that those Germans who have traveled widely tend to be able to throw off this natural tendency. The stigma of being labeled a Nazi just for being German (this was in Italy) is something even my daughter has had to suffer, and she was born in 1983. The Brits and the French have not had this national stigma to contend with, and are maybe less self-conscious when they demonstrate pride (those that do, that is). But those Germans who do exhibit arrogance come across as especially abhorrent, probably precisely because there is such a concrete precedent that other cultures don't have hanging over their heads. Believe me, there are still plenty of them, too.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
5. has there been anything more about his vision problems?
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 07:25 AM
Apr 2015

I've been sidetracked by work, but the last I'd read the reason for the "not fit for work" notes was that he had detached retina(s) with possibly significant vision loss.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
6. Have seen nothing more...there are increasing reports
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 08:02 AM
Apr 2015

of his suicidal tendencies.

Googled 'suicide methods' and 'door locking mechanism on A320' just the day before the crash.

groundloop

(11,521 posts)
8. Certainly this will start much debate concerning privacy rights vs. safety concerns
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 08:53 AM
Apr 2015

I've no doubt there will be those who suggest that 'someone' should have spotted these suicidal online searches, and of course there will be plenty on the other side citing privacy concerns, I don't pretend to have an answer for this. I do believe the requirement to have 2 crewmembers in the cockpit at all times is a good common sense approach that probably would have prevented this tragedy.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
9. Obviously, this is a debate that will have to be had.
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 09:02 AM
Apr 2015

I've tried to talk about 'the individual's right to mental health privacy' vs. 'the greater good of the travelling public' several times around here.

But, the outraged reaction from the hyper-sensitive mental health group has really discouraged me.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
11. mental health issues aside, what the fuck was somebody half-blind doing piloting a plane?
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 10:22 AM
Apr 2015

I would expect mandatory vision checks as a licensing requirement, and loss of vision to require mandatory reporting.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
12. Well, you'd think so, wouldn't you?
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 10:30 AM
Apr 2015


But, don't say that too loud my friend, or you'll have the 'health privacy possy' down on you.

DO NOT say those words: mandatory reporting!
 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
13. there are mandatory vision tests to get a driver's license and pilot's license.
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 12:33 PM
Apr 2015

So there's no reason not to have mandatory reporting to the same authorities if somebody loses their vision, even if it's temporary. It's no more an invasion of privacy than the annual testing.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
14. Hey, I'm with you...LOL! But for some, that's a report too far!
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 12:45 PM
Apr 2015

Crazy, but true. I get the impression that the 'anti-monitoring' minons may be libertarians. Privacy and individual 'fredum' trump all else.

groundloop

(11,521 posts)
15. You don't have all the facts on pilot requirements
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 06:46 PM
Apr 2015

To fly for a scheduled airline one needs an ATP license and a First Class medical certificate. To maintain the medical certificate you have to undergo a physical INCLUDING EYE EXAM every 6 months. And there ARE self-reporting requirements for any condition which could make you unfit to fly.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
16. I don't "self-report" the vision test for my driver's license renewal.
Sun Apr 5, 2015, 07:32 PM
Apr 2015

Nobody should be "self-reporting" their vision or other medical situations that render them unfit to drive...or fly.

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