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Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 06:32 AM Apr 2015

Greek PM in Moscow for Putin meet that rattles EU

Source: AFP

Moscow (AFP) - Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras was to meet Kremlin strongman Vladimir Putin in Moscow Wednesday as part of an eye-catching visit that has fuelled EU fears that cash-strapped Athens is cosying up to Russia.

The two-day trip comes as Tsipras is battling to unblock a rescue package from the EU and IMF, with some in Brussels warning against any move to barter financial support from Moscow for political backing over the Ukraine crisis.

But analysts say that while the visit might see Moscow lift an embargo on Greek fruit, overall it is more about political grandstanding aimed at pressuring Europe rather than a serious shift in policy.

Tsipras, a former Communist who came to power in January, has made no secret of seeking closer ties to Russia at a time when Moscow is at loggerheads with the European Union over the conflict in Ukraine.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/greek-pm-moscow-putin-meet-rattles-eu-032442672.html

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Greek PM in Moscow for Putin meet that rattles EU (Original Post) Bosonic Apr 2015 OP
Nations taking independent positions...the horror /nt jakeXT Apr 2015 #1
Appreciate you sharing thanks rpannier Apr 2015 #2
(A) because many Communists have remained loyal to Russia and view geek tragedy Apr 2015 #6
And yet the article still fails to explain why it's a tie in rpannier Apr 2015 #9
one does not see the Saudi family referred to as "President"--they are referred to as a royal geek tragedy Apr 2015 #16
"Kremlin Strongman"? Scootaloo Apr 2015 #3
AFP actually Bosonic Apr 2015 #4
AFP DeSwiss Apr 2015 #5
That loaded phrase jumped off the page at me too (nt) Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #7
The EU is not a politcal union, but an economic entity. The United States of Europe is a myth Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #8
It's both an economic and political union Bosonic Apr 2015 #10
What does that even mean "political partnership"? There is no ratified European constitution Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #12
Thank you for this post. djean111 Apr 2015 #13
Good comment Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #20
You need to take another class in the EU. the UK does not have a formally ratified geek tragedy Apr 2015 #15
Gee, do you really think so, you think I need to take another class? In which language this time? Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #17
English will suffice, as the Treaty of Amsterday (1997) is available in that language. geek tragedy Apr 2015 #18
... Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #19
To correct the misinfo in post n°15, UK has Magna Carta (1215) and Bill of Rights (1689) Pooka Fey Apr 2015 #21
So, your position is that Mr. Putin is a man of the left? nt geek tragedy Apr 2015 #14
dirty rotten communist pinko Putin... magical thyme Apr 2015 #11
Even more importantly for Russia is the fact that Greece must approve of continuing sanctions on Purveyor Apr 2015 #22
and the sanctions are hurting Greece, magical thyme Apr 2015 #23
Plus, too, the Russian mob and repatriated Russian money is being parked in Cyprus Hestia Apr 2015 #24

rpannier

(24,337 posts)
2. Appreciate you sharing thanks
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 06:57 AM
Apr 2015

I find the wording of the article interesting
-Kremlin Strongman
-a former Communist

These descriptions are in the story because?
Whether Tsipras was a Communist seems irrelevant to the story
And why is Putin the Kremlin Strongman, instead of President

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
6. (A) because many Communists have remained loyal to Russia and view
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 07:58 AM
Apr 2015

the Russian government as 'anti-imperialist' (which is absurd to the point of delusional, but it's a thing);

(B) Putin routinely has his opponents imprisoned and assassinated.

rpannier

(24,337 posts)
9. And yet the article still fails to explain why it's a tie in
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 08:52 AM
Apr 2015

In fact, the story only statement tying the two nations together appears to be the statement about both countries being Orthodox Christian countries
So, it begs the question, 'Why mention he is a former Communist when the story doesn't make any reference to why it's significant?"

As to Putin throwing people in jail
Saudi Arabia still does crucifixions. I have yet to see a story on the Saudi Royal family referring to them as the Crucifixion Supportive Royal Family of the KSA

Their choice of terminology for their stories is selective, to say the least

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
16. one does not see the Saudi family referred to as "President"--they are referred to as a royal
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:30 AM
Apr 2015

family--rule by monarch is not democratic.

Pooka Fey

(3,496 posts)
8. The EU is not a politcal union, but an economic entity. The United States of Europe is a myth
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 08:43 AM
Apr 2015

Attempts to impose EU political agendas on sovereign nations like Greece are anti-democratic. Greek voters elected Tsipras to implement policies which will improve the lives of the citizens of Greece. Period.

There was quite a bit of blatant editorializing in this article. Referring to the elected president of Russia as "Kremlin strongman" is a Red Scare tactic worthy of the New McCarthyism we are now seeing in the West. Evidenced by the Toronto Symphony Orchestra cancelling a performance by a Ukrainian Pianist because her political beliefs don't fall in line with the approved Washington dogma.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026471571

We are living in a new McCarthy era. Critical thinkers beware and watch your backs.

Bosonic

(3,746 posts)
10. It's both an economic and political union
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 09:00 AM
Apr 2015

From the horse's mouth:

How the EU works

The EU is a unique economic and political partnership between 28 European countries that together cover much of the continent.

The EU was created in the aftermath of the Second World War. The first steps were to foster economic cooperation: the idea being that countries who trade with one another become economically interdependent and so more likely to avoid conflict. The result was the European Economic Community (EEC), created in 1958, and initially increasing economic cooperation between six countries: Belgium, Germany, France, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands. Since then, a huge single market has been created and continues to develop towards its full potential.

From economic to political union

What began as a purely economic union has evolved into an organisation spanning policy areas, from development aid to environment. A name change from the EEC to the European Union (EU) in 1993 reflected this.

The EU is based on the rule of law: everything that it does is founded on treaties, voluntarily and democratically agreed by all member countries. These binding agreements set out the EU's goals in its many areas of activity.

http://europa.eu/about-eu/index_en.htm

Pooka Fey

(3,496 posts)
12. What does that even mean "political partnership"? There is no ratified European constitution
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 09:33 AM
Apr 2015

I took a class in the EU for a semester to qualify for an advanced French language diploma, so I know all the reasons, very admirable ones, for the EU. Nevertheless, the nations comprising the EU voted against a constitution, to drive home a point, for which I understand the reasons perfectly.

I don't want to trade internet articles about this, because I live here and talk to Europeans daily. Misunderstandings about any sort of political consensus and scope in Europe are what are driving current conversations about an EU breakup or reorganization.

When EU policies directly destroy industry in France to profit German industries, such as current changes being considered in the agricultural sector, it is normal and rational to consider alternatives. This is just another example, besides the Greek example, of how an economic union hurts rather than helps individual nations. Consider the case of Iceland, who has withdrawn its application for membership.

The reality of the EU today is not AT ALL what Schuman and Monnet had in mind after WWII, they intended to create socialists societies, not neo-liberal societies.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
13. Thank you for this post.
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 09:53 AM
Apr 2015

Been a long time since I was in Europe, but I do remember the students in a class I was teaching (computer operators) in Denmark saying they could see the advantages of a trade agreement, being in the EU, but there was no way they would vote to join the EU if they had to start using the Euro instead of their own currency. Because to do that was the start of letting Germany control things. To this day, Denmark is using its own currency. Those guys were quite correct.

Pooka Fey

(3,496 posts)
20. Good comment
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:57 AM
Apr 2015

Thank you. The common currency is a problem that the UK also avoided as they remained under the British pound sterling.

Another economic problem hurting the EU is the fiscal paradises. I've heard that if France could recover the tax money it is owed by companies basing their headquarters in fiscal paradises, France would have no debt and thus no need for austerity policies. I imagine this would hold true for other EU countries including Greece.

This is a great new documentary (2015 release) about this issue: the French title is "Le Prix à Payer" by Harold Crooks. I couldn't find an English title or release date in my brief IMDB search - here's a link from Le Figaro. The Film is in English and French with English subtitles.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2015/02/06/20002-20150206ARTFIG00004--le-prix-a-payer-un-documentaire-qui-denonce-les-paradis-fiscaux.php

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
15. You need to take another class in the EU. the UK does not have a formally ratified
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:28 AM
Apr 2015

constitution, so that's not much of an argument.

There are a whole host of EU treaties that cover a bunch of political issues, including foreign policy and human rights. These treaties, and their implementation by the EU including its judiciary, are binding upon the member states.

Pooka Fey

(3,496 posts)
17. Gee, do you really think so, you think I need to take another class? In which language this time?
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:31 AM
Apr 2015


Oh, loved your comment asking me if I thought Putin was a Leftist! No way you could infer that by anything I said ever. But I don't look for logic on DU, so I didn't reply on purpose. Your snark level did get to me on this one, so good for you.
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
18. English will suffice, as the Treaty of Amsterday (1997) is available in that language.
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:38 AM
Apr 2015
http://www.eurotreaties.com/amsterdamtreaty.pdf

P.S. "I speak French, so I know more than you" loses its cachet around the sophomore year of high school.

Pooka Fey

(3,496 posts)
21. To correct the misinfo in post n°15, UK has Magna Carta (1215) and Bill of Rights (1689)
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 11:23 AM
Apr 2015

To argue that the EU doesn't need a constitution because the UK doesn't have one is comparing apples and oranges. The UK is too old and stable politically to have had need for a formal constitution, unlike the USA, France and Germany.

Why don't we (the UK) have a written constitution?

Essentially because the country has been too stable for too long. The governing elites of many European nations, such as France and Germany, have been forced to draw up constitutions in response to popular revolt or war.

Great Britain, by contrast, remained free of the revolutionary fervour that swept much of the Continent in the 19th century. As a result, this country's democracy has been reformed incrementally over centuries rather than in one big bang. For younger countries, including the United States and Australia, codification of their citizens' rights and political systems was an essential step towards independence. Ironically, several based their written constitutions on Britain's unwritten version.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-big-question-why-doesnt-the-uk-have-a-written-constitution-and-does-it-matter-781975.html

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
11. dirty rotten communist pinko Putin...
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 09:06 AM
Apr 2015

seriously, who wrote this shit?

Why shouldn't the Greek Prime Minister meet with the Russian President. Greece needs help. Greece and Russia have some common interests to do business; Greece needs $$ and Russian needs pipeline routes for its oil and gas and maybe could use a spare warm water port.

EU's sole interest is in bailing out its banks that made bad loans on the backs of the poorest who didn't take out the loans to begin with. Not unlike when Iceland's 1% bankers went down and the IMF thought they would make Iceland's reindeerherders bail out them out.

 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
22. Even more importantly for Russia is the fact that Greece must approve of continuing sanctions on
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 11:52 AM
Apr 2015

Russia or the whole EU sanctions package is scuttled.

All member countries in the EU must approve.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
23. and the sanctions are hurting Greece,
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 12:24 PM
Apr 2015

since they need to sell their fruit to Russia, who needs fruit.

They should vote against the sanctions. Greece needs to take care of Greece first.

 

Hestia

(3,818 posts)
24. Plus, too, the Russian mob and repatriated Russian money is being parked in Cyprus
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 01:36 PM
Apr 2015

Is the EU worried that Russian monies will then prop up the Greek economy? Who would blame Greece for going where the money is and not being forced to hand over the store to Germany.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/moscows-mafia-finds-an-island-in-the-sun-cyprus-is-awash-with-dubious-dollars-from-russia-robert-fisk-reports-from-limassol-on-the-visitors-with-private-jets-bulging-suitcases-and-a-reluctance-to-answer-questions-1381056.html

http://www.voxeu.org/article/russian-cyprus-round-tripping-corruption-linked-money-laundering

The above links are old but the laundering happened for over 20 years in Cyprus - Greece could be next if Germany doesn't butt the fuck out and give Greece some breathing room.


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