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Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 09:42 PM Jun 2015

U.S. air traffic control system to mimic Canada's system, A4A says

Source: Yahoo! News / Reuters

MIAMI (Reuters) - The U.S. air traffic control system is likely to be restructured to resemble Canada's system, and the change could happen quickly, the head of the U.S. airline trade group said on Sunday.

We wouldn't "cookie cutter" the Canadian system, known as NAV Canada, said Nick Calio, president of Airlines for America. "But that's the best-operated system out there."

Overhaul of the U.S. system operated by the Federal Aviation Administration is being considered as part of a reauthorization of the government agency due for a vote in Congress by Sept. 30.

A temporary extension of FAA authorization is likely to be needed to work out changes to the U.S. system, but it wouldn't be a lengthy delay, Calio told Reuters on the sidelines of the International Air Transport Association (IATA) global airline conference in Miami.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/u-air-traffic-control-system-mimic-canadas-system-221547425--finance.html

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Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
1. I'd like for the Federal gov to "mimic" another countries "best-operated" healthcare system too!
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 09:58 PM
Jun 2015

America could save lives & billions handed over to 'for profit' middlemen.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
3. The reason they want to mimic the Canadian system is it is privately run
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 10:14 PM
Jun 2015
Nav Canada

Nav Canada is a privately run, not-for-profit corporation that owns and operates Canada's civil air navigation system (ANS). It was established in accordance with the Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization Act (ANS Act).

<SNIP>

History

The company was formed on November 1, 1996 when the government sold the country's air navigation services from Transport Canada to the new not-for-profit private entity for CAD$1.5 billion.[2]

The company was formed in response to a number of issues with Transport Canada's (TC) operation of air traffic control and air navigation facilities. While TC's safety record and operational staff were rated highly, its infrastructure was old and in need of serious updating at a time of government restraint. This resulted in system delays for airlines and costs that were exceeding the airline ticket tax, a directed tax that was supposed to fund the system. The climate of government wage freezes resulted in staff shortages of air traffic controllers that were hard to address within a government department. Having TC as the service provider, the regulator and inspector was a conflict of interest. Pressure from the airlines on the government mounted for a solution to the problem that was hurting the air industry's bottom line.[10]

A number of solutions were considered, including forming a crown corporation, but rejected in favour of outright privatization, the new company being formed as a non-share-capital not-for-profit, run by a board of directors who were initially appointed and now elected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nav_Canada

NAV CANADA is the company that owns and operates Canada’s civil air navigation service (ANS).

We manage 18 million square kilometres of Canadian and oceanic airspace. With 40,000 customers and 12 million aircraft movements a year, we are the world’s second-largest air navigation service by traffic volume.

As a private company, our revenues come from our aviation customers, not government. By investing in technology and controlling costs, we have kept customer rates stable while improving safety and flight efficiency.

Our dedicated employees provide services to commercial and general aviation from facilities throughout Canada. These services include air traffic control, flight information, weather briefings, aeronautical information services, airport advisory services and electronic aids to navigation.
http://www.navcanada.ca/EN/about-us/Pages/default.aspx


Couple of thoughts - I don't know if US corporations would allow for the same no-for-profit set up. They are much more likely to want a for profit corporation that would be owned by either stockholders or by the aviation industry. The point that is mentioned in the history part of the Wikipedia article on the reasons for setting up NavCanada - the need for updating the technologies and government freezes of wages - is what the US air traffic system has been facing for decades. Maybe a new system of management would allow for those improvements, but given the reluctance of US corporations to improve infrastructure (heck, they don't even want to MAINTAIN infrastructure!) or invest in their own systems I am cynical about the possibility of this change making a difference.

liberal N proud

(60,335 posts)
6. There it is - Privatization
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 08:05 AM
Jun 2015

That is the only thing the republicans can see and the only thing they can act quickly on, privatize!

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
10. And given Republican history, there would be no regulation or oversight
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 12:02 PM
Jun 2015

So an American system would NOT be equivalent to the Canadian system in improvement of the technology or increase in pay for the air traffic controllers.

Flying would go from being inconvenient and a hassle (because of TSA) to being dangerous and terrifying.

I loved flying the times I did it in the 60s and 70s but by the last trip I took in a plane - in 1990 - it was already simulating a sardine can. And that was BEFORE TSA. That is why I have not taken a plane since and do not plan a trip by airplane unless I can do it first class. Which means I will probably never fly again.

groundloop

(11,519 posts)
4. Yes, and our privatized system won't even remotely resemble Canada's
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 10:15 PM
Jun 2015

Nav Canada is a private company that runs Canadian air traffic control. From what I've heard it's pretty good because there are stringent regulations on them. If we privatize air traffic control even more than we have already I guarantee it will be a free-for-all. We currently have contract (privatized) control towers scattered around the country and it's been my experience that their service to pilots is shoddy compared to FAA run towers.

Also, this discussion is certain to bring up the question of user fees again, which has been talked about for quite a few years. Big airlines are (surprise surprise) pushing for a system where they won't bear a very high burden of the costs despite the fact that they carry the vast majority of passengers and reap huge profits. Private pilots argue that there's already a 'user fee' based system in place in the form of an aviation fuel tax.

bluevoter4life

(787 posts)
5. I have an opening shift tomorrow
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 11:27 PM
Jun 2015

But I will provide my insight from an air traffic controller's perspective once I can duck info the union office and use the Internet there.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
8. We ought to let the NTSB run the ATC system.
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 09:24 AM
Jun 2015

The damn FAA often won't change regs until "enough" people are killed.

bluevoter4life

(787 posts)
9. From an air traffic controller
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 10:13 AM
Jun 2015

I have said this numerous times on these same forums, privatizing the ATC system is a BAD idea. Other systems cannot compare to the complexity and volume US airspace contains. I was reading an article a few weeks ago (haven't been able to find it so the numbers may be a little off) that Canada has 4 million aircraft movements per year. The US has 140 million.

The corporations will not like a not-for-profit model. They have proven time and time again that they will sacrifice NOTHING to pad their bottom line. This scares the shit out of me, and it should scare the shit out of anyone who flies.

A previous poster mentioned that the towers that are run by private, contract employees seem to be much more shoddy than those that are run by the FAA. They are right. Private towers are regularly at minimum staffing, where one person opens the tower in the morning, and remains on position by himself for hours on end. If it gets busy, there is no second set of eyes, no one else to scan the runways, no one else to give him a break if he needs. They are often staffed by retired FAA controllers whose motor skills and reaction time has diminished due to age (FAA mandates we retire at age 56. Contract towers have no such age requirement). They are often staffed by former military who either a) have never worked civil traffic, which is a different world than military or b) many military bases just cannot compare to the volume seen at civil airports.

NAV CANADA has many qualities about it that make it an efficient system. However, none of them should be implemented here. Yes, we absolutely need overhaul of the US NAS. But there are MANY better ways to do it. If the FAA would get it's shit together and start taking a proactive stance on many topics, problems can be avoided. If Congress would ever get it's head out of it's ass and stop using us as political pawns, I guarantee the FAA would be able to operate a lot more effectively.

mrdmk

(2,943 posts)
12. Thank you for your analysis here, starting with 4 million compared to 140 million
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 02:21 PM
Jun 2015

That is a big difference

bluevoter4life

(787 posts)
13. Even my conservative, retired USMC FIL
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 03:06 PM
Jun 2015

Is vehemently against privatizing our system. It slows down efficiency and results in higher user fees (see:taxes). The airlines are fine with this because it allows them to squeeze out the competition, and essentially keeps them out of the way, which translates to better on time performance, better fuel efficiency and higher profits, but it ends up hurting the general aviation crowd, of which the NAS is comprised the majority of.

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
11. NAV Canada is non-profit the same way Scientology is
Mon Jun 8, 2015, 01:07 PM
Jun 2015

Ask Canadian airlines what they think of NAV Canada, gouge, gouge, gouge.

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