'Suicide attack' at Karnak temple site in Egypt's Luxor
Source: BBC
A suicide bomber has blown himself up near the ancient Temple of Karnak in the Egyptian city of Luxor, police say.
Local media reported that three assailants were killed in the attack and that four bystanders were injured.
The assailants reportedly tried to storm a barricade at the temple, one of Egypt's most popular tourist sites.
Two of the attackers are believed to have been shot dead by police, but a third passed through barricade and detonated an explosive device.
Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33077862
romanic
(2,841 posts)on the loose again. jfc
sinkingfeeling
(51,478 posts)by their attacks, how much of their own history is destroyed, nor the economic losses they cause. Seems like they seek to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)In fact, they are the opposite of anarchists. They are very clear in their theocratic fascist aims.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)avebury
(10,952 posts)I was fortunate enough to visit Egypt before Mubarak was overthrown and it is was still safe to visit then. Our guides kept asking us to let people know that it was safe to visit Egypt but acknowledge that, when the time came and Mubarak was thrown out of office it could get really bad.
It was the first time that I ever visited a country overseas where we always had at least one armed "guard" with us when we were together as a group. It was very strange. There was only one time that I was concerned for our safety and that was when we were in Aswan and six of us had negotiated with a cab driver to get back to our ship. The guy try to renegotiate the fare during the drive but since our guide had told us not to pay more then 10 Egyptian Pounds, my fellow travelers refused to budge. The driver gave me really bad vibes as he started acting more irrational and my fellow travelers held out for a fee of less then the equivalent $2 US. They forgot the most important part of foreign travel, get back to hotel/ship/ whatever safely first then see what you can do about an incident. I do not think that any of the others realized just how badly things were beginning to spin out of control but I trust my gut instinct. I spoke up and indicated that we needed to get out of the car like now. I took command and ordered the driver to pull over and got everyone out. As luck would have it, he stopped by our ship on the Nile. Who knows where we would have ended up had I not taken charge. It was insane to get into a pissing contest with a crazy person when you are in a foreign country where it could cost you your life. That was my only bad experience in all of my years of travel.
BumRushDaShow
(129,608 posts)not long after the end of the "Persian Gulf War".
The big cities like Cairo, Luxor, and Aswan were fine. But the smaller sites at Edfu and particularly Esna, were pretty rough - even with our group of about 100, which was entirely AA, where some in the villages with a predominantly Nubian population, were yelling out the n-word, one of the few English words they managed to learn from other tourists... (and they were "darker" than we were).
"Americans" tend to be spotted anywhere we go.
Those temples (both Karnak and Luxor, that actually are joined by a stone path - in some places lined with sphinxes), have been built on and "defiled" for literally a couple thousand years. In fact, there's a mosque jammed on part of the ruins of Luxor Temple that replaced an old Christian church that was there before.
sinkingfeeling
(51,478 posts)starting. At that time, they reported only 33% of the tourist ships on the Nile were running. Our Muslim guide was very opposed to Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood. They people are so poor and dependent on tourism.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how a guy like al Sisi is going to anything but make it worse.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)They are unique in that they have significant monies from the US coming their way every year.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)I don't think better is in the cards at this point. Better would involve making better choices about leaders. Too late for that now.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And is there a way for things to get better for whomever you meant?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)There is no better for everybody in this.
Edit: and yes, he will make it worse for everybody, he is a violent dude. So you could say that I think getting rid of al Sisi would make it better, getting somebody with a clue.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That's who I assumed we were both talking about, but then I was confused when you asked me "better for whom" since I thought it was self-evident.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)crickets
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)DU is not what it used to be .... now one has to conform to the echo-chamber or one's posts get hidden repeatedly.
Beauregard
(376 posts)All this knee-jerk censorship. Just my newbie opinion, which, in this case, should count for something. I mean, DU wants more newbies, right?
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)It is sad what the jury system has done to this once enjoyable board.
Jurors don't follow TOS -- they hide posts that they personally disagree with. Many 4-3 decisions to hide.
The jury system will be the creator of an ultimate echo-chamber here.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)1. The MB had rejected the path of armed struggle since about 1980, instead reconstituting itself as a social movement/political party under the Mubarek dictatorship.
2. After the overthrow of Mubarek, the MB won the presidential elections and Morsi was the duly constituted president.
3. Although the MB controlled the presidency, it never controlled the repressive apparatus of the state (the "deep state" . It may have governed poorly, but it was not a monstrous, repressive state. That's the guys who are now back in power.
4. Egypt's "liberals" fucked up big time by begging the army to overthrow Morsi. They sacrificed Egypt's budding democracy for short-term political benefit--removing their hated foe--instead of doing what you are supposed to do in a democracy: win elections. Now, they get to share jail cells with the MB.
This is the key point. I'm not a fan of the MB. They are a conservative religious party. I wouldn't vote for them. But they played by the rules and they won. Democratically.
5. The military government massacred MB members, literally. They killed hundreds of them in one day in Cairo. They have arrested thousands. They have criminalized the country's largest social movement/political party. They have sentenced hundreds of people to death in kangaroo trials, including Morsi, who they sentenced to death for escaping from Mubarek's prisons!
6. If MB members picked up the gun at this point, who could blame them? But they shouldn't be blamed for things they haven't done. There was already a long-running, low-level Salafist insurgency before Morsi came to power. It has grown much stronger since he was overthrown. As during the hubbub of the Arab Spring, lots of people tried to blame the MB for acts of Islamist violence, when most of it is coming from the Salafist radicals. Whether people blamed the MB out of ignorance or malice, the effect is to make them responsible for all Islamic radicalism, when they were actually moderate compared to the Salafis.
7. Now, Egypt has a new military dicatorship, the liberals are cowed, and the MB is hunted like dogs. And the Salafist radicals are in the ascendant. Long live pharoah.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)The Sinai is in open revolt against the Government of Egypt, the revolt quieted down under Morsi, but has increase under Sisi. Many have allied themselves with ISIL:
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/06/10/415177/Egypt-Takfiri-militants-Sinai-Arish-Sheikh-Zuweid-Rafah
As a general rule "jihadist militants" are tied in with Salafist movement ("Wahhabism" which in turn is tied in with the House of Saud. The formed the "Al Nour" party during the revolution and supported the coup against Morsi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Nour_Party
The Moslem Brotherhood's political party was the "Freedom and Justice Party".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_and_Justice_Party_(Egypt)
Whereas the Muslim Brothers have recently shown some flexibility on this matter, the Salafis remain adamantly and uncompromisingly opposed on theological and legal grounds, maintaining that these command the ascendancy of Muslim men over women and non-Muslims in the conduct of public affairs in Muslim societies.
More recently, the Salafis and the Muslim Brothers have also come to loggerheads over foreign policy matters. The former have kept up constant pressure on the Muslim Brotherhood to prevent it from showing a more tolerant attitude towards Shia Iran. The Salafis also disapprove of President Mohamed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhoods stances with respect to Israel and the West in general.
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/News/502/32/Muslim%20Brothers%20and%20Salafis.aspx
In many ways the fight in Egypt reflects a Fight between "Wahhabism" and the Moslem Brotherhood, with the later being more open to new ideas and trends. The Moslem Brotherhood has also denounced violence for the saw what Gandhi did in India and decided it was the better option given the power of any Army in any Islamic country they were operating in.
"Wahhabism" tends to be more violent. ISIL is a "Wahhabism" off shoot. At the same time it is the Salafis/Wahhabi that get the support from Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf Emirates. Funding for the Moslem Brotherhood is more local and tied in with the Islamic Business community not the Oil Shrieks.
As to "jihadist militants have killed hundreds of security forces and government personnel since Mr Morsi, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, was ousted" what do you expect when a popularly elected President is removed by the use of Violence? Peaceful demonstrations? (Which actually were tried, and violently suppressed by the Egyptian Army).
Why, he asked, are the officials responsible for this waste of Saudi wealth not asking Al-Twijri and the coup generals in Egypt about the money? "No one knows the nature of this aid a gift, a loan or anything else," he added.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/16837-saudi-prince-calls-for-prosecution-of-officials-who-backed-egyptian-coup
On what has been dubbed Black Wednesday, an all-out joint offensive of the armed forces and riot police, backed by armored vehicles, helicopters, and bulldozers, was launched to nab rebels and disperse pro-legitimacy sit-ins at Rabaa Al Adawiya and Al Nahda Square. Stung by growing support for the sit-ins and condemnation of the ongoing bloodshed, the heavily-armed aggressors barbarically raided the two tent cities on August 14, using lethal force from the outset. Government forces bulldozed the encampments, bringing everything in their path to ruin and running over protesters helplessly trapped in crushed tents. Sandbag-lined barricades, shade canopies, camping tents, and stages built out of wooden planks were razed to the ground. Snipers inside helicopters flying at low altitude, assassination squads on rooftops, and ground troops opened heavy gunfire on unassuming, unarmed civilianswho were no match for the unrestrained, brute force of the state. Defiant protesters stood their ground in the face of a hail of bullets covered under the thick smog of teargas. As they tried to diffuse the situation by vacating the premises and fleeing the scene of the military operationwhich resembled a war zone, compliant demonstrators were also met with deadly force. Some were struck by a barrage of bullets as they ran to seek refuge in adjacent buildings. The wrath of the assailants was then directed at the wounded and the dead. Inside the 6-story field hospital in Rabaa Al Adawiya, they set ablaze corpses and injured protesters with bullets lodged in their head, neck, or chest. Some of the victims' bodies have later been dumped outside overwhelmed city morgues. Security forces pillaged the remnants of the camps and set the Rabaa Al Adawiya mosque on fire. Persons arrested at Rabaa Al Adawiya and Al Nahda Square were transferred to prisons that can be described as concentration camps. While in police custody on August 18, 36 detainees were killed in a locked van by security forces. Acts of unmatched vindictiveness since August 14 have claimed some 2,600 lives besides thousands of injuries. In an effort to cover up the unparalleled violence by skewing the body count, victims' families have been pressured by morgue officials to sign certificates fraudulently declaring suicide to be the cause of death. The latest state-led massacre against protestors was carried out on October 6; at least 57 demonstrators were gunned down and hundreds were injured as they marched in support of democracy and opposition to the military coup. It is alarming, but not unforeseen, that only four policemen have been charged for the death of the 36 prisoners: their trial is ongoing. None of the other perpetrators of the aforementioned crimes have been arrested, much less prosecuted.,,,,,
https://www.opendemocracy.net/arab-awakening/ahmed-safwat/egypt%E2%80%99s-bloody-coup-d%E2%80%99etat
Yes, there has been violence, but most of it aimed at the Moslem Brotherhood NOT by the Moslem Brotherhood.
- See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/four-traits-sisi-hitler-and-mussolini-have-common-1427651880#sthash.A9lRxn4z.dpuf
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/four-traits-sisi-hitler-and-mussolini-have-common-1427651880
hlthe2b
(102,405 posts)but having spent a lot of time in Egypt in the past, to think they want to destroy the beyond comparable relics of ancient times, just leaves me heart-sick.
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)wasn't damaged, for which I thank Amon-Re, Mut and Khonsu. It is a fabulously interesting and irreplaceable site and the idea that some idiot with delusions that his god is speaking to him and a pound or two of dynamite could destroy some of it is frightening to me. I've only been there 3 times and have so much more of the temple that I want to see, in particular the talatat from the Aten temple.
bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)They have wreaked havoc on archaeological sites in Iraq and Syria. They would not hesitate to destroy Karnak or any other ancient sites in Egypt or anywhere else--not to mention Christian or any Muslim sites that do not reflect the beliefs of their particular sect.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Morsi was trying to undercut the 1% of Egypt and for this he was overthrown. Religion was a minor issue, the Salafist/Wahhabi are the more radical of the two, for the Moslem Brotherhood knows they have to deal with the REAL WORLD, something the Salafist/Wahhabi reject.
In the Election the Moslem Brotherhood came in on top, but #2 was the Salafist/Wahhabi group, who are supported by the House of Saud and as such allied with ISIL and the AL Queda (Al Queda is part of the Salafist/Wahhabi group and has helped the Taliban in their war in Afghanistan, but the Taliban are NOT Salafist/Wahhabi members, only Al Queda in Afghanistan is).
As far as the Moslem Brotherhood is concerned they see no need to destroy things that are NOT worshiped and they also want to work with Christians and even promote women. As Morsi said he wanted to be President of ALL EGYPTIANS not just Moslems. Thus the Moslem Brotherhood will NOT destroy anything, the Salafist/Wahhabi would but not the Moslem Brotherhood, and the Brotherhood have the support of most poorer Egyptians not the Salafist/Wahhabi (and this divide had become worse since the coup, with the Poor seeing who the Salafist/Wahhabi are supporting in the poor-rich divide).
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)That has been a problem in Egypt for a long time. Heck, a few years ago the Muslim Brotherhood announced that should they be voted into power, they would destroy the pyramids. Actually several smaller and lesser known sites in Egypt have been defaced or destroyed by religious vandals in the last few years. What I love is that groups like IS or Muslim Brotherhood want to destroy pre-Islamic historical sites but they will happily use the latest in weapons and transportation.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Murjan Salem al-Johari, one of Egyptian leaders of the Saudi-inspired Wahhabis, otherwise referred to as the "Salafis," said that it was the duty of all Muslims to destroy the Pyramids and the Great Sphinx just as the Taliban destroyed two ancient statues of the Buddha in Afghanistan in 2001.
"All statues in Egypt must be destroyed," al-Johrai declared in a TV interview. "Muslims must implement the rules of Sharia and we will destroy the statues of Sphinx and the Pyramids because they are idols."
-------------
There are many similar links.
Criticize the Muslim Brotherhood if you wish, but criticize it for its own actions, not those of others.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)LUXOR, Egypt: The Karnak temple in Egypt's Luxor was open as usual Thursday despite a foiled suicide and gun attack on the world-famous site that police said would have been a "massacre."
At around 10:00 a.m., by which time dozens of tourist buses would normally be parked around the ancient temple, only seven coaches and three minibuses had arrived, an AFP correspondent said.
About 200 tourists were strolling inside the temple itself, around 50 meters (yards) from the scene of Wednesday's foiled attack, but were far outnumbered by police around the site.
A local official told AFP that several tours had been cancelled.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Jun-11/301584-more-police-than-tourists-in-egypts-luxor-after-foiled-attack.ashx
mainer
(12,031 posts)From a tour company advertising Egypt tours.