I am grateful to Aerows. Was searching for the truth when he posted http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026830786

Still finding more.

If Snowden were selling US intelligence data or encryption data for money, he probably would have tried to conceal his identity and his acts. If you read up on spies who have spied for money, they usually try to keep getting more and more information to sell and get more and more money for it.

Read the history.

Snowden could be responsible for this breach, but I suspect the Chinese simply set up computers big enough, massive enough, to use a lot of keys to get into our system. I remember reading some reference some months ago about the Chinese having a lot of space and effort dedicated to trying to break our codes, etc.

As I said earlier, if Hitler had realized during WWII that we had broken his codes and communications systems, he would not have thought we had ENIGMA, he would have thought that someone in his ranks had given away the codes and information. It's a natural reaction. It isn't always true.

We would need more specific evidence that the codes were broken because of Snowden in order to assume that. It is a possibility, but there are more likely possibilities.

If our government is smart, it uses a system that constantly changes the keys, the codes and perhaps even the system of storage so that encryption is a constantly changing system. At least that is what I would do. In fact, if i were in charge, I would keep the most sensitive information outside any computer system that anyone in the world could get into. There is no reason, it seems to me, to make personnel documents available or accessible from any outside computer system or to anyone or anything outside that closed storage system itself.

.........perhaps even the system of storage"

True, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did that. But who, pray tell, had access to THOSE?

Took the files and delivered them to a foreign source which can in turn use them against our citizens is beyond acceptable. All the talk about how he protected the files is a lot of crap. He says he is in fear of his life, he has placed other lives in jeopardy. Guess he is now a hero to China and Russia.

And it had nothing to do with him at all

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026830786

He has not been charged with giving documents to any foreign country and the US has stated they have no proof that he did.

...in Russia, Germany, and Brazil.

And before the expected response about Greenwald, DOMA has been declared to be unconstitutional.

He should move away from his husband's country, where he's lived for years?

The rest left because of harassment by the government. I don't blame them. The secrecy of this administration and the things we do is pretty abhorrent

So he moved so he can live openly with his husband, with the benefit of marriage. He made a home there, in his husband's home country. Why should he leave that?

Now that DOMA has been declared unconstitutional, he has a different story.

http://www.out.com/news-commentary/2011/04/18/glenn-greenwald-life-beyond-borders?page=0,0

But even Greenwald doesn't claim that his sexual orientation doesn't matter. After all, if he were straight he would be living in Manhattan, his home for most of the last 20 years. Instead, he lives in Rio de Janeiro, barred from moving to the United States with his Brazilian boyfriend, David Michael Miranda.

"Brazil recognizes our relationship for immigration purposes, while the government of my supposedly 'free,' liberty-loving country enacted a law explicitly barring such recognition," says Greenwald, referring to the Defense of Marriage Act.

And again, now that he has made a home in his husband's country, for years, why should he move back to a place that didn't welcome him and threatened him with such serious charges?

on Tuesday that Snowden “has taken extreme precautions to make sure many different people around the world have these archives ...
Greenwald: Snowden’s Files Are Out There
06.25.131:36 PM ET
Eli Lake
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/greenwald-snowden-s-files-are-out-there-if-anything-happens-to-him.html

He has not been charged with handing anything to any foreign country. The US has stated they have no proof he has and independent sources have stated he did not.

Foreign sources. Don't have to have the government they are foreign.

It's the second attack and it's the US carelessness.

There is nothing that links him and no US official, sourced or unsourced, has stated so.

Has lost his creditability. I did not change his story several times, either he has some very crumby advisors or he did this on his own advice.

He lied when he signed on with the NSA he would not divulge information, then he lied saying he was going to China for medical treatment and more stories after this. I doubt if he knows the truth now.

Unbelievable.

I'm done. You want to buy into bullshit being spread with zero proof, zero collaboration, based on some unnamed source in the UK, about hacking happening off of at least two year old codes, go for it

It's an article about another article that says that someone in the UK said something. No other source has stated this. None. Just articles about an article about an unsourced individual.

Nothing about it from any US source. Not even a hint

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026830786

The hack is horrible and scary and on new stuff. Snowden has been gone for 2 years and never charged with giving documents to a foreign country.

How about blaming the hacked entity? How about realizing that any code Snowden had would have been changed in much less than the 2 years since he's been gone? And if it hasn't been, shame on the government!

They got two year old codes from Snowden? Or Snowden is now hacking the US government for Russia and China?

How about blaming the US government for not having enough protection?

Never mind. I do not care what you think

British intelligence "believes." Ha. British intelligence has had its own spies through the years. I need more evidence than "British intelligence believes. . . ."

China apparently broke into the US files of documents completed by agents who were given security clearances.

China is allegedly devoting whole buildings to its cyber activities, to try to break codes. I think I read that on DU some time ago.

We bring Chinese students here, give them access to our information, special visas so that they can work. The Chinese manufacture some of our computers. I believe that if you leave your front door open, a thief just may walk in.

From that article and from what little I know about our computers and our security system and the stage of Chinese technology, I would consider that Snowden may have had some or a lot of fault in this matter, but that he may have had no fault at all.

Hard to say.

The Chinese and Russians could have obtained access to the files at Booz Hamilton. The Chinese are very good at encryption I read on DU quite some time ago. They have been dedicating a lot of people to working on computer-related issues I also read on DU.

It may be that the information was obtained from the files that Snowden brought out, but it may be they were obtained through some other means -- such as simply hacking into our and the UK's computer systems.

The article in the Guardian is conclusory in nature and not backed up by any evidence or even a thorough explanation. It just jumps to a conclusion. I am used to dealing with facts that are backed up by evidence.

The Guardian would have to have some evidence of a marker in the information that the Chinese and Russians have that specifically and definitely identified that information as derived from the specific files Snowden took. Otherwise the article is just conjecture.

Could be true. May be false. There is no way to know.

We can't just believe every assertion of a theory that newspapers publish as verified, documented, "true" fact.

I suspect that our computers are not very secure. The Chinese are alleged to have recently obtained the files of forms filled out by the people who received security clearances from the US government. There is not way that Snowden took that information with him or even had access to it where he worked. The Chinese are really good at hacking.

Apparently even North Korea was able to hack Sony's files. The internet is not secure. And many computer systems are not secure. If the US government is able to get access to just about everything that is in the form of electronic media, why wouldn't other governments be able to do the same?

In fact, when some of us began shortly after Snowden's revelations to alert people to the fact that our privacy and our constitutional rights are being violated, we were told by Snowden critics, i.e., NSA snooping apologists, that everyone, meaning all countries including Russia and China, were doing it. Now, Snowden gets the blame for the fact that the Guardian believes that indeed, Russia and China are snooping -- on British and American intelligence agencies.

Maybe we are simply trying to keep too much information secret and our system of secrets is so large that it cannot be kept secret in the internet age.

I'd need a lot more evidence that yes, indeed, Snowden's files were the source of the information that has allegedly been learned by the Chinese and the Russians. Snowden is an easy scapegoat since he is out of the country.

Maybe this very sensitive information should not have been entrusted to a private contractor. Maybe it should have been kept under lock and key in government safe storage?

If I had something secret, I would keep it in a very safe place and not hand it over to a private business that hires all kinds of people and that is for profit. I don't have any such secrets, but if I did . . . .

He wouldn't even be in Russia if the US hadn't stopped him from going else where.

It wouldn't have had to be done if the US Government hadn't been out of control

The traitors here are the the people in the US Government, not Snowden

Snowden violated the Constitution by accessing phone data records without a warrant, at the time Snowden "revealed" there was warrants issued. The violations occurred in the Bush administration of which Snowden praised and he did not tell anything until 2013 which was after Bush left office and this was corrected in 2008.

The US Government had nothing to do with Snowden leaving the US, Snowden is responsible for the decision. Whenever a US citizen with a passport has a warrant for their arrest their passport is revoked, again Snowden is responsible for the passport revoke. Maybe his advisors did not advise him correctly but it falls back on Snowden.

The "out of control" occurred during the Bush administration and was changed in 2008. In fact Bush stated in 2005 the phone data was being collected, Snowden did not "reveal" this.

Are you now saying Snowden is a traitor? This may be an additional charge Snowden may have.

Snowden is a patriot in defense of the constitution

Snowden is a traitor. I had only said he was a thief, liar and conducted acts of espionage.

country. What an unmitigated asshole.

Snowden's a liar.

Thanks for the Tweets, BT

Snowdenistas absolutely losing their shit and already preemptively spinning like a top...

God help me, I do love it so...

EDIT: Greenwald and his allies on twitter have gone totally silent the past few hours...Must be one LONG-assed conference call on the best strategy to spin this...

I read on DU some time ago that China has a huge center devoted to cracking our codes, etc. We buy computers made in China and other countries in the area. We don't make our computers here for the most part.

People are jumping to the conclusion they want to believe is true. They have no evidence.

You would think that after Snowden so easily walked away with a lot of data (we don't know what data he had) and went to Russia that our system would have been secured so that no one could get into it. Yet just the other day, we learn that the Chinese hacked into even the personnel files of those who filed documents in order to get security clearances. That is not the kind of information that Snowden had.

In fact, if Snowden had information on our encryption system, then it is a failure by our government if we did not make that encryption system pretty near impenetrable after he revealed that the NSA was violating our rights and spying on our communications.

There may be another leaker, someone who is being paid to "assist" the Chinese. But then, the Chinese may have cracked our codes all by themselves.

We invite Chinese students into our country. We are extremely open with our technology. They make some of our computers. Our government is pretty stupid about keeping secrets if that is what it really wants to do. Very easy to blame Snowden, but the evidence to support the allegations about who is responsible for keeping this information secret leads to the American government.

You can't leave your door unlocked and then complain that someone walks in and takes your stuff.

as attacking Snowden, they are the ones who worked with Snowden in the first place. They are PRO-Snowden. They are not the problem (in fact, they are among my favorite news sources)

Which is nothing but unsubstantiated allegations from anonymous sources within the British government.

There are no facts there.

So this is crapola.

Go figure.

when Putin was answering questions via public interview a while back there in time, Snowden seemed to think he was asking freely.
Putin came back at Snowden saying- yer an agent, I'm an agent ,we are both agents.

So yea for sure ,Putin didn't grant Snowden asylum for nothing because noth'en is for noth'en.

Snowden's files my ass.
He didn't even take them when he left Hong Kong...

China got caught hacking into Canadian gov't computers but hey... just blame it on Snowden.

Wouldn't the bigger story be that Snowden had access to files that revealed the identities of active spies? The identity of those spies should be only known to maybe a dozen or two people, no? Tops. It shouldn't be even gleanable from a data dump of any kind.

for using "unnamed sources" in his Bin Laden article will be all-in on this article for which the source is unnamed British Intelligence officials.

The delicious, sweet irony.

have been dismissed as rubbish... Rule no.1 in both the CIA and MI6 is that identities are never, ever written down - neither their names or a description that would allow them to be identified.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/claims-edward-snowdens-whistleblower-files-5882142