To the parents: Stop it! Your kids are not things to compete against each other with!

No telling why. But juvie is cruel and unusual.

and the local media says the parents have been "at war" for five years. The judge insisted she did not put the children in juvie as punishment for them. It sounds like the kids are being used as pawns by the parents. Reading between the lines, I have to wonder if the children made the decision to snub their father on their own, or did the mother push them to it? Why else would the judge take them from the mother's custody?

bragged to me that he won as I stood there in mind numbing shock.

These parents have not a clue the damage they are doing to their kids. They are sick people. The judge needs to make a decision just for the kids sake. It's so wrong to torment these kids with this competitive vengeance. They're going to need long long term therapy. My heart goes put yo those kids, I know what they're going through.

blames the mother for the children's alienation from their father. The mother has brainwashed them, and the judge said so quite plainly.

as likely for the fifteen year old.

At ten, eleven, twelve, and beyond, I loathed my father and didn't care much for my mother. I knew the reasons why, but never would have had the courage to explain them in court. (At nearly 60 and with children of my own, I don't think my reasoning was at fault when I was a preteen and teenager.)

The mother may be partially at fault in this case, but I'm willing to bet that Daddy isn't the saintly victim the judge paints him.

The whole family needs counseling, but these kids have been seriously damaged by the court adding injury to insult. They had enough to contend with already.

The CIA and the Russians and lord knows who else spent decades and untold piles of money trying to do it, and it's a pretty safe bet that if they can't do it mothers in the upper Midwest can't, either.

"Parental alienation" isn't recognized because it's horseshit an MRAsshole made up.

You can't have any credibility because the judge blames the mom but punishes the kids. If she's fit to be a judge she shouldn't be sending kids to detention for what she says is the mother's fault.

And you know why else you shouldn't be defending her action? She undid it. She can't even defend it.

Totally out of line and likely unfit to work in family court or maybe to be a judge at all.

in the Oakland County prosecutor's office. That might or might not have a bearing on her insane looking rulings in this case.

This whole thing is a mess and the kids have been used as weapons and are now being punished for the actions of both parents.

One wonders if there should be a witness protection setup for children being used this way in messy divorces, placing them with reasonable people under new names to grow up without as many battle scars and able to reunite with their unreasonable and spiteful parents once they are 18.

I'd also remind that judge that 15 year old kids are in full rebellion and are not that easy to brainwash and perhaps she needs to listen to him. She might just find out a few things she doesn't know right now, like the threat to move them to Israel might not be an empty one on the dad's part and that's why they are afraid to be near him right now.

Whatever is really going on, it's an unholy mess and Gorcya is adding to it.

Many people, including me, are reacting to this based on our personal, often painful, experiences.

I will stay out of this thread now.

and it's always the kids who bear the brunt of the hurt. The parents have hate and spite to sustain them. The kids have neither.

Sorry you went through any of this mess. No one should have to.

and it was such an egregious abuse that she needs to be removed from the bench.

Who sends kids to juvey as punishment for what she says one the the parents did?

Not fit to be a family court judge.

Are you kidding me...what was the judge thinking...at that age..they will remember..

THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILDREN SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

.5 YEARS - parents have been battling this out...so the kiddos were between 5 and 9 years old when this all started..imagine what it was like before the divorce started...

What the hell was this judge thinking in the first place..The kids have been through enough with the parents....and then to have a judge decide to hold them in contempt....so misguided all around....

I can see why these kids want nothing to do with him. Shame on the judge for her back wards decisions. Punishing the kids instead of the one who caused the alienation is the dumbest thing I've ever heard!

Brainwashing! And stuff!



I watched the previous topic on this, pretty surprising to see the number of people attacking the mother saying that she turned the children against the father and that the childrens claims of the father hitting the mother were false.

Apparently there has never, EVER, been a case of a man abusing a woman.

As for the claims themselves, we don't know if they are true or not. The claims SHOULD be investigated, but to immediately say that the mother brainwashed the kids to make them claim such is extremely misogynistic.

Given the hostility between both parents in this case, it would probably be beneficial for the children to be put into the care of other family members until the cases completion but sending them to JAIL is in all honestly the idea of a lunatic.

At any rate, this Judge needs to be investigated for sentencing children to J-hall because they don't want to be around a potentially abusive parent. Given a past case of the PIC giving judges kickbacks for sentencing children to Jhall on bogus and trumped up 'crimes' it's extremely worrying to see this Judge trying to push these kids into Jhall.

them to jail. We will work this out in arbitration or something but he didn't. What good father wouldn't protest this and do what it takes for it to not happen?

you should have done that in the first place! Sure, the kids weren't locked in with the general juvie population, but the trauma of you calling them Manson cultists and taking them away from their mother sure doesn't make it any better. I hope the Michigan Supreme Court or whoever investigates Gorcyca's background to see if she got a fat kickback for sending these three kids to Children's Village. Wouldn't be surprised, Oakland Co. loves making money anyway it can.

The children — two boys, 14 and 10 years old and a 9-year-old girl — have been in Oakland County's Children's Village facility since June 24 after Judge Lisa Gorcyca found them in contempt of court for ignoring her instructions to have a "healthy relationship" with their father.

George Miller, director of Oakland County's Department of Health and Human Services, said Children's Village offers a safe and structured environment.

Mandy's Place, Miller said, is for emergency placement for children from birth to age 17, who either have no next of kin, no foster care designation or need temporary placement. It is set apart from detention and treatment.

Miller said Mandy's Place has single rooms and dorm rooms in a home-like setting. The facility does not have cells and is not a jail, he said.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2015/07/09/children-detained-rejecting-dad/29935383/

It's in the transcript.

They were being punished. If it had been a matter of the judge thinking both parents were bad for the children, they could have been kept together, with foster parents, or a facility that takes siblings, if there is such a facility. But instead, she separated a 9 year old from all of her family. And a 10 year old from all of his. The 14 year old may be able to get through it without too much trauma (but that's by no means certain), but there is no doubt that all 3 of them were detained, and deprived of their freedom, and I expect the younger 2 will need treatment to recover from what the judge did to them.

"The children would not answer any adult; they huddled together as if they were sending messages/vibes to each other in some sort of Manson-like behavior," he wrote.

Lansat's comparison to Charles Manson and his followers would be repeated months later when Gorcyca suggested the children were engaging in Manson cult-like activity before he separated them from their mother and each other at Children's Village.

Lansat noted another mental health professional indicated she saw the children "tapping their feet under the table in the jury room as if they were sending Morse codes to each other."

Lansat wrote that parenting time scheduled for Aug. 21 and 22, 2014, in the court's jury room was disrupted by the children's behavior.

"When the children first came to the courthouse on that Thursday it took at least six deputies, a prosecutor ... various court personnel and finally the judge to get those kids into the jury room," Lansat wrote. "The court admonished Mother as to what the Court saw in the children's behavior on the record — at least twice. The three minor children sat outside the courtroom on the chairs. the children would not respond to me — but more important — either to the deputies or the prosecutor. For minor children to basically evade armed Sheriff's (deputies) is absolutely appalling.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2015/07/09/children-detained-rejecting-dad/29935383/

Saying the children he's meant to be looking out for are like the Manson family? Jesus. These are children. So what if they are communicating with each other? They have adults who are meant to be looking after them comparing them to mass murderers.

If he's fallen out with them so much he sees them as a cult, then he should have resigned that position.

so that she took up the 'Manson' slur is no help to Lansat's case. I'll admit I think the judge is the worst human involved here, and Lansat isn't quite as bad. Both may be worse than the parents, though. Only the children have been detained, somehow.

more over the Mother took them from Israel to the US without her then husbands knowledge or permission, oh and the it was the Mother who has been feeding this story to the media

given the way he seems to support the judge. I suspect neither parent does a good job.

left Israel and returned to the US for these kids

In fact he is there right now.

when the hildren are with him to insure he will not do what his ex-wife did

and that what makes him a bad person.

his children are no longer like Manson's cult, she will release the children. What did the father do after that hearing? He went to Israel for work.

have visitation with her by moving from state to state to state and threatening to lie in court about his parental suitability...

He did the best he could with phone calls over the years, backing off when it was obvious that his daughter was caused emotional pain from the step parent when he called.

He did not go through the court systems (because even thought the original state retained jurisdiction, any decision by that court would then have to be approved by whatever state court the mother was living in at the time. It is a no win situation (or was at that time -- the laws may have been changed since then).

We did not pursue a course for visitation through court because we felt it would be more harmful to his daughter than having a tenuous relationship with her, always letting her know that she was loved and wanted here.

I'd like to say that the result was that when she became an adult that the relationship got closer, but, while it seemed to be going in that direction for several years, she has cut communications in the last six months. We don't know why...

If we had to make that decision again, I suspect, for her sake, we would do the same.

Maybe he should have consulted with his wife before agreeing to a job in another country, don't you think?

from Israel without her then husbands knowledge or permission, and would not return with her son nor allow him to Israel for his Bar Mitzvah because she could be arrested there for her actions


http://observer.com/2015/07/exclusive-interview-dad-whose-kids-were-locked-up-for-not-having-lunch-with-him/#ixzz3fatXJYRy

So what? Mother didn't want to move back to Israel. She moved to US to become an MD. Children were all born in US, so children are US citizens. Why exactly can't son have his Bar Mitzvah in US?

nothing as to where she received her education, nothing as to where exactly the kids where were born, and as to the bar Mitzvah perhaps she hasn't joined a synagogue

She was doing her residency in US starting in 1998, before the oldest child was born.

"Education & Medical Training

St Joseph Mercy Livingston Hospital
Residency, Internal Medicine, 1998–1999

University of Michigan Hospitals and Health Centers
Residency, Ophthalmology, 2000–2003

Technion-Israel Inst of Technology Faculty of Medicine
Class of 1996"




http://health.usnews.com/doctors/maya-eibschitz-tsimhoni-489973

from your link

Dr. Maya Eibschitz-Tsimhoni is an ophthalmologist in Canton, Michigan. She received her medical degree from Technion-Israel Inst of Technology Faculty of Medicine and has been in practice for 19 years.

http://health.usnews.com/doctors/maya-eibschitz-tsimhoni-489973

Which makes her children US citizens. Which is what my point was.

Where is the claim that the Mother is feeding the press? The article quoted says just the opposite:

then you read this link where it is plainly stated

Yes, I see where the article states that the father hired a large, well-connected public relations firm to arrange press interviews for him. That is when I went to their website to see what kind of a firm he hired.

I missed anything, other than the father's general statement in his pr arranged interview, about the mother doing the same. Perhaps she has and I haven't seen it.

I read the father's statement in the quote from the "exclusive" interview arranged by his professional public relations firm, 5WPR (www.5wpr.com).

From their website (emphasis mine):
"...We understand that when a crisis hits, minutes are money. We know how to strategically manage your message and frame the debate..."

Obviously they are doing their job.

The judge also said they wouldn't be able to see each while there and she threatened to keep them here until they turned 18. She terrorized these kids then institutionalized them in some warped plan to cow them into having a healthy relationship with their father while limiting their access to both parents.

She needs to go.

one that depends on the knee jerk type reactions we see here. Mom wants a trial in the press which is why she first allowed this to happen and then went screaming to the press

Remember that neither parent agreed with her decision to institutionalize them.

IMO we don't know enough to judge whether one parent is worse than the other or whether both are equal actors in this mess. What I do know is that in contentious support hearings among those I've know, teens have enormous clout in choosing where they live and how much time they spend with the parent who doesn't have physical custody. My anecdotes seem to track with the family law experts quoted in articles related to this case too.

In fact, the opposite.

in any of these articles... Except that she urged the children to do as the judge ordered.

Please show where the mother has been feeding stories to the press. I haven't seen any of those yet.

I am aware that there are controlling women who deliberately keep their children from their fathers for whatever reasons... I had a friend whose mother was encouraged by her mother to divorce her husband and keep their two children from seeing their father -- and then my friend's mother did the same to her. I've lost touch with my friend, but I hope that she did not do the same to her daughter...

But that doesn't mean that I believe the mother is the fiend in this case. The oldest child is 15 and was 10 at the time of the divorce. His antipathy carries some weight with me.

Reached by telephone for an interview arranged by 5WPR, the firm Mr. Tsimhoni hired to help him navigate the crisis, Mr. Tsimhoni spoke to the Observer at length. “I’m in shock by what’s happening. My ex-wife lost in court after many times she was warned and as a result she just went out to the media to put pressure on the judge or overrule the judge. I understand everybody’s pain—the children’s pain, my pain, that the children are where they are. But she saw it coming and never tried to prevent it.”

Read more at http://observer.com/2015/07/exclusive-interview-dad-whose-kids-were-locked-up-for-not-having-lunch-with-him/#ixzz3fcBZHFfh
Follow us: @newyorkobserver on Twitter | newyorkobserver on Facebook

articles about the court room scene and from the father's POV.

Please link to the articles where the Mom has talked to the press.

confirmed. The only articles I've seen vilify the mother.

The only places where the father's conduct is mentioned is when the children's reason for not seeing the father is explained... and that comes from the court appearance.

certainly doesn't

She, alone among the adults, has some idea of what constitutes mistreatment of children. Since going to the media has achieved this, I'd say: good for the whistleblower.

Asked what the children thought Mr. Tsimhoni might have done to earn the silent treatment, he searched his memory bank. All he could come up with was the following anecdote, uneventful even by the standards of a Judy Blume book:

“The one incident that happened was five years ago I had a five-hour unsupervised visit. We were in a park and Maya was circling around the park the whole time, trying to sabotage the visit. Two hours into the visit, the children ended up in her car and she was trying to leave. I tried to prevent her from leaving because it was my time with the children. I was very careful not to do anything but she claimed that I pushed her. She screamed at the children, ‘Call 911! Call 911!’ The police showed up and Maya was screaming and the police confirmed that nothing happened. But in the children’s mind, that’s what happened.”

Read more at http://observer.com/2015/07/exclusive-interview-dad-whose-kids-were-locked-up-for-not-having-lunch-with-him/#ixzz3fcGqKUZG
Follow us: @newyorkobserver on Twitter | newyorkobserver on Facebook

from the evidence we have. We don't have anything indicating she is a danger to them.

caring like this we do not see everyday- thankfully

so that they 'ended up in her car'; he doesn't accuse her of snatching them, so it's quite possible they chose to go to her. "In the children’s mind, that’s what happened"; so the witnesses agreed with her, not him.

Nothing 'nearly psychotic', even in the way he tells it.

how did they get in her car is that really such a mystery? the oldest witness was a 10 year old at the time

He didn't accuse her of snatching the children; the most likely thing is that they wanted to go to her.

Her balance is shown by her not wanting her children isolated from each other in a strange facility. His being unbalanced is shown by him thinking it's a good idea from the judge.

A statement by his friend. No-one else has respect for the court; everyone says this is an out-of-control judge, detaining 9 year olds without their siblings or mother. A father who didn't object to what the judge did to his children is delinquent, in my opinion.

"Endanger" them? That's not true. But the friend is saying he's pained by what his ex-wife has done. When it comes to discussing the court rulings, which include detaining the children, separated from each other, and threatened (then) with lasting until the eldest turns 18, he says he "has great respect for the court and the legal system".

and it occurred to me that when the all of the kids turn 18 there is a further complication as they are Israeli citizens too, and Israel requires either army or some other type of civil service at that age, albeit usually Israel doesn't extradite 'refusniks' if they go to Israel even for a visit they could be arrested, that has happened

This appears to be the same situation described differently. According to this version, children called 911 first, then mother arrived.

"In August 2010, for example, a police report was filed after Omer Tsimhoni spent a day with his children unsupervised. But the meeting apparently soured shortly after, and the children called 911, alleging their father “threatened to kill them while at the park”, according to Lansat’s report."

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/10/michigan-judge-siblings-juvenile-detention

In August 2010, for example, a police report was filed after Omer Tsimhoni spent a day with his children unsupervised. But the meeting apparently soured shortly after, and the children called 911, alleging their father “threatened to kill them while at the park”, according to Lansat’s report.

When Maya Tsimhoni arrived, she alleged the father began “pushing her around”, the report says. No probable cause was found to arrest Omer Tsimhoni, who “has always denied making the threat”, according to the report. Maya Tsimhoni sought a personal protection order against her husband, but the request was denied by Gorcyca.

Years later, as the situation deteriorated further, Maya Tsimhoni was forewarned of potentially “grave” consequences for her children if they refused to speak with their father, court records reviewed by the Guardian show.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/10/michigan-judge-siblings-juvenile-detention

you seem to forget this judge has been working with this family for quite some time and may well have a better idea of what is going on than what the media bandwagon is presenting

also most family court proceedings are closed an not public record so who is feeding the press these transcripts?

His son is dead, the guy survived. Before he jumped, his wife asked for a restraining order but was denied by a judge.
So the fact that a restraining order was denied by a judge, doesn't mean the judge was correct.

there is no one size fits all, this action happened after years and more than 50 court appearances

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2015/07/09/children-detained-rejecting-dad/29935383/

These settings are 1. short term holding places for traumatized kids until a foster placement can be found 2. oubliettes in which to dump troubled foster kids nobody wants. The chances those kids will be abused by other children in such a setting should dissuade a judge from sending them there in a non-emergency situation.

In that order of preference.

So the judge only did the right thing if the kids were in immediate danger that could not be remediated with supervision, have no grandparents, aunts, uncles, friends of the family who could care for them and no foster placements were available.

So no.

So why shouldn't they be left with their mother?

also answer a few questions please

how did the press get the children's name and pictures?

most juvenile/family court proceedings are closed so who ?

The balance of 'who's lying', by numbers of witnesses, is that he is.

It's just the way he wants people to see things. It's possible there is something bad about the way she is with the children, but there's nothing in the reports. Getting your children to call the police, who then decide there's no problem, is not grounds for removing your children.

These siblings are being forbidden from seeing each other.

If the warped judge refers to it as "jail" you don't have to jump in front of her to say it's not really.

You read a story like this and THIS is the problem you see? So many things to be bothered by and this is top of your list. wth

smh

what would you like to see the kids left with Mom and have a judge appointed that is guaranteed to rule in her favor? Moreover the judge ordered them released from that facility and they are at amp for the summer

If you defend that people here will likely not take you seriously ever again. And rightly so.

"The children would not answer any adult; they huddled together as if they were sending messages/vibes to each other in some sort of Manson-like behavior," he wrote.

Lansat's comparison to Charles Manson and his followers would be repeated months later when Gorcyca suggested the children were engaging in Manson cult-like activity before he separated them from their mother and each other at Children's Village.

Lansat noted another mental health professional indicated she saw the children "tapping their feet under the table in the jury room as if they were sending Morse codes to each other."

Lansat wrote that parenting time scheduled for Aug. 21 and 22, 2014, in the court's jury room was disrupted by the children's behavior.

"When the children first came to the courthouse on that Thursday it took at least six deputies, a prosecutor ... various court personnel and finally the judge to get those kids into the jury room," Lansat wrote. "The court admonished Mother as to what the Court saw in the children's behavior on the record — at least twice. The three minor children sat outside the courtroom on the chairs. the children would not respond to me — but more important — either to the deputies or the prosecutor. For minor children to basically evade armed Sheriff's (deputies) is absolutely appalling.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2015/07/09/children-detained-rejecting-dad/29935383/