Experts: Report shows Sandra Bland may have used pot in jail
Last edited Tue Jul 28, 2015, 02:46 PM - Edit history (1)
Source: Associated Press Update - Proper Link
The amount of THC, one of the active components of marijuana, in Bland's system was 18 micrograms per liter, according to the report released Monday. That's more than three times the legal limit for drivers in Colorado and Washington, states that permit the recreational use of marijuana.
Robert Johnson, chief toxicologist at the Tarrant County medical examiner's office in Fort Worth, Texas, told the AP that a THC level as high as Bland's suggests she "either had access to the drug in jail or she was a consistent user of the drug and her body had accumulated THC to the point that it was slowly releasing it over time."
But, Johnson added, "I have never seen a report in the literature or from any other source of residual THC that high three days after someone stops using the drug."
{University of Florida toxicology professor Bruce Goldberger, who reviewed the report for The Associated Press} noted that while chronic users who stop using the drug will have higher concentrations than non- chronic users, "the concentrations do not persist at this level, at least in my opinion." He defined chronic as someone who uses cannabis daily, sometimes repeatedly.
Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/9287eef889d94385bca932a79e247e2c/experts-report-shows-sandra-bland-may-have-used-pot-jail
Moi has been saying
[font color=white]----------[/font]and sayin.....
[font color=white]-------------------[/font]and Sayin.......
that the only way for Sandra Bland to be "asphyxiated" and show no signs of fighting the strangulation
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is that of Sandy being doped.....
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UPDATE
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Originally, I posted the Fox News retell of AP's story; because Fox failed to link properly from theirs (HERE)
shraby
(21,946 posts)Another thought:
If she had it in her system like that, she must have been fed it, because the other inmates would have smelled it if smoked.
I'll wait for a more credible source of info.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Credible remarks are the ones from "inside" the story - that the amounts are extremely high.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)11-hydroxy-thc or a non edible form. Either way, this stinks, and not like chiba.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Can edible forms of marijuana cause a person to be so relaxed - that they wouldn't be able to fight a hanging?
Or - for that matter - smoking such heavy amounts?
Can you taste the difference - if put in soup or other foods?
What about drinking such - in liquid form?
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)You get straight in a hurry.
A pot high is overridden by adrenalin.
Now about these so called experts.....
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)the attempt at asphyxiation would immediately halted - once she started facing the real reality of it all.
Now way she could be SO depressed (even if Texas A&M told her she was going to lose the job) - that she'd go through it.
NO WAY!
And - reality is that (even if she was determined) her body would have instinctively (involuntarily) convulsed, gagged etc.
This is why we need REAL expert analysis.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)and other tests (see if a party utilized gloves)
This is a current pic from DailyMail UK - of the jail cell hanging noose
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)"Associated Press" above every article on their site.
Response to laserhaas (Original post)
d_legendary1 This message was self-deleted by its author.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)The message more important than the quote by a national news outlet - of an AP story
is the fact that Fox News is telling the FACT of extremely high levels.
SANDY was POISONED
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)I get your point about the facts being the facts.....but not from Fox, which often sources AP and then modifies the story to fit their agenda.
And....what difference does it make? Marijuhana is not a catalyst for suicide, but it is for a smear campaign.
And the measurement of micrograms per litre is for urine, not blood:
"Blood Tests
Unlike urine tests, blood tests detect the active presence of THC in the bloodstream. In the case of smoked marijuana, THC peaks rapidly in the first few minutes after inhaling, often to levels above 100 ng/ml in blood plasma. It then declines quickly to single-digit levels within an hour. High THC levels are therefore a good indication that the subject has smoked marijuana recently. THC can remain at low but detectable levels of 1-2 ng/ml for 8 hours or more without any measurable signs of impairment in one-time users. In chronic users, detectable amounts of blood THC can persist for days. In one study of chronic users, residual THC was detected for 24 to 48 hours or longer at levels of 0.5 - 3.2 ng/ml in whole blood (1.0 - 6.4 ng/ml in serum) [Skopp and Potsch].
Note: THC blood levels can be measured in two ways. Most labs used by U.S. law enforcement report levels based on concentration in whole blood, but others report concentration in blood serum or plasma instead. Concentrations in whole blood are about half as high as those in serum/plasma. Therefore 0.5 - 3.2 ng/ml in whole blood = 1.0 - 6.4 ng/ml in plasma or serum. Unless otherwise stated, whole blood concentrations are reported here."
I think the tests were blood test and the levels being confused with urine tests.
Also, Marijuhana for a regular user can be detected in blood for up to 7 days for a regular user, put to 100 in urine.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Would gladly change it all - if someone can find me the original AP
when I tried to query AP - it didn't come up (even better story if Fox made up an AP thingy)
Point is - we are turning faux on its head....
they are trying to say she was a heavy drug user
and we are pointing out the REAL issue of their (reported) facts
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)but poisoned is not the most apt term in any instance like this.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)poi·son
ˈpoiz(ə n/
noun
1.
a substance that is capable of causing the illness or death of a living organism when introduced or absorbed.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)even in large edible doses there are no records or reports, no evidence that anyone, anywhere, has ever been poisoned to death by pot or 'overdosed' in any way without mixing with stronger substances. If the pot was at all responsible for her death, it was as a sedative to allow them to string her up and write it off as 'pot head committed suicide, no loss'. I agree with the first statement, last of your OP, she was doped. I'll insist, poison is the wrong word.
(and really, arguing about it is moot, the supposed levels of THC in her bloodstream have little to nothing to do with her arrest, the racist shitbag that hauled her out of her car, or the institutional racism that this town calls it's heritage)
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Much easier to hang someone in an induced state (likely getting someone to walk off a ledge) -
than totally sober.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)In Colorado, some teen, unbeknownst to his teacher and classmates, gave tbem brownies laced with marijuana. They became woozy, spacey, nauseated and sick from the effects of the MJ and some went to emergency rooms. One of the criminal charges against the teen was poisoning.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)My point - all along - (after they said NO signs of struggle)
is that she didn't even struggle with herself.
Facing the knock on heaven's door - the body adrenaline kicks in - and so does panic.
NO F'n way - was Sandy SO severely depressed - that she would face death - quietly....
Response to laserhaas (Reply #7)
d_legendary1 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)It does nothing but distract from the OP's point.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)The poster has since changed the story from Fixed News to the AP article. I'll delete my comments so people don't get confused.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Trust me, I'm used to get produce tossed at me.
It was just so very important - to get my belief that she was poisoned/doped - out there.
With someone of consequence breaking the facts of the possibility, into question.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)As to the story you posted I wonder where she got that much weed. She was going to her dream job in Prairie View A&M and I'm sure they drug test there. No way she she became a rastafarian in jail so the story about her being drugged and murdered has merit.
Thanks for the change. Didn't wanna sound like a hardass but I lose my cool when I see a Fixed News story on the Late Breaking page.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...legal limit for THC while driving.
Saying someone had "more than three times the legal limit for drivers in Colorado and Washington" isn't saying much.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)POISONED! (doped beyond ability to fight back)
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Why marijuana? It seems like a very ineffective drug to use to incapacitate someone.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)And (IMO) this makes all the logical sense in the world (from the poisoning/doping POV)
They needed something they could explain she utilized/consumed.
An easy sell (if it does indeed succeed at doping one to the point of least resistance)
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)To cover for her false arrest and murder in jail.
Pot is not the cause of her death any more than the breakfast she had the day she was kidnapped by a racist power tripping asshole with a badge.
I wouldn't trust any information coming out of Texas right now.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)The non 'Red Herring' - is the fact that they suppressed this pot issue, until now.
They knew it was going to be discovered by the independent autopsy's -
so they (appear) to have escaped getting "caught" on the issue - by trying to twist the facts to their benefit.
OOPs!
blackspade
(10,056 posts)It covers for the fact that she should have never been jailed to begin with.
How does pot make it easier to 'suicide' her? Pot can't kill you. And it doesn't incapacitate in the way you seem to think.
Perhaps if you explained your theory......
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)If she has a history of use - the family will know (so should arrest records, if it was that morose of an issue)
IMO this is a Smoking Gun.
They didn't report about this issue (even when one local judge was bad mouthing Sandy on his Twitter page) - until they realized it would come out in the independent autopsy(s).
This issue (if the toxicity levels bare out to be - as reported) raises many more issues than what Fox seeks to quash.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)can 'bust' people as "impaired druggies", or fire from job, or refuse food stamps, if they smoked a joint last month.
edit to add, the marijuana test is over sensitive also so media like fox and police can use the test to say, see she deserved to die she was impaired on drugs.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)and the first way you desire to get out of jail (even with bail money on the way) - is to hang yourself.
Faux frug sucks.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)republicans dislike about 100% of what are today called 'immigrants' without papers.
So republican-fox can have their perverted, hateful, TV 'fun' with some people busted by their 'hero police'
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)that ole Mary Jane will make you want to hang yourself......
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)My guess:
There is so much evidence-tampering going on that the cops themselves lost track what's real and what's made up. That's why they want one more autopsy.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)I totally believe.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)One 'pot cookie' is enough for any person, 2 cookies and one is very loopie- sedated kindoff, for many hours.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Nobody is listening to the common sense premise I've been proffering - that Sandy HAD to be doped up
in order for them to cause the hanging to transpire - without any signs of defensive wounds.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)I didn't want to 'break the law' and bring anything home from vacation.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Sooner they make it legal - nationally - the better.
(and I don't use - btw)
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)I had to have an 8 hour sleep and woke refreshed & unimpaired, to a beautiful day.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)people are not stoned or impaired at all but the 'test' is rigged to pick it up.
The police 'system' to promotes the "OMG, they had evil marijuana madness and that's why they're DEAD and deserve to be abused and DEAD.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Will the independent investigations - actually do a true - job of investigating?
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)might have been tampered with.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)and the effects were being rejected (upsetting her system) - that would explain her saying no to breakfast.
Could also be, from stories that I've heard, jail house food really sucks (Bologna sandwiches, beans, hotdogs and yuck).
Breakfast could have been beans/rice (in TX especially) - and/or Mush (eeewwww)
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)They killed her, even if they didn't feed her some- police seized evidence.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)It is just ALL so sick and sad....
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)one of those other possibilities is that maybe her parents decided not to pay the bond to get her out and it stressed her to the breaking point, another possibility is she became worried that the police might find something or had found something in her car in which case the police would be well advised to go over it with a fine tooth comb assuming they still have it.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)including the fact that - the reporting of the arrest - might have cost her that new job.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)Its been interesting to read their perspective as well as their reasoning as to why the officers order to put her cigarette out was actually a lawful order.
Its even causing me to sway in my opinion that the officer should be fired.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)How can I make it more clear how wrong you are to champion this desperate RW talking point?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027001748
Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #40)
cstanleytech This message was self-deleted by its author.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)opposite.
Faux wants to paint her as a drug addict - and I'm taking their (reported) facts
and making a much more logical pathway of discussion.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)and form my own opinion and newsflash for you that might not be the same as yours and if you dont like that tough shit.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Maybe this will enlighten you:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027001748
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)I think you are more about causing drama on the forum than anything but hey I could be wrong, in which case I apologize.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)I appreciate opposing points of view.
But let's take the high road.... Yell at me if you will - I've been enduring that for a decade plus now.
Imparting arguments of what in each other's mind isn't good form (and is not licit in a court of law)
Because no one else can ever know what someone else is "thinking".
My point of this thread - was to get the discussion going - on HOW (IMO no question of "if" Sandy was doped to be hung (as my remarks in the 2nd part of the thread {above} details)
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)Oh and laserhaas, I think that might be an Associated Press press story not a story written by fox news.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)I actually note that it is a Fox link to AP
and I'm updating the thread (partiallY) until someone tells me yes or no - on changing it to AP
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)No matter how you look at it (doctored video or not) - this officer escalated a matter of a "warning" ticket;
and the party in question wound up dead - as a (cause n effect) result.
One party losing his career to send a clear message to all others - to act properly - totally outweighs the needs of the Blue Wall
KT2000
(20,588 posts)appears to me to be an indication that he had the intention of escalating. He was there to hand her the warning ticket. He could have handed it to her and gone back to his car. He chose to egg her on knowing that she was irritated. He wanted the cigarette out of the way for the altercation he was creating.
He should be fired - what he did was against his police training - he escalated.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)instead he let his anger disturb the peace (instigate)
And (initially) I thought it was just pissy ego (he asked her a question - she answered - and the answer pointed out how much of a dick he was being..... that is when he made the "put out" request and things got out of control).
If his u-Turn had malice of forethought, I can't believe he would have just presented a "warning" ticket.
Think the anger was (un)righteous indignation (spur of the moment)
and - from there - everything went to hell
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)while I agree officer that the officer escalated it I am not 100% sure anymore if they deserve to be fired over it after all its not like a nightstick and just beating on her he just asked her to put out a cigarette.
msrizzo
(796 posts)The police already said that there were several things in his actions that violated their protocol. So maybe, the problem wasn't asking her to put out a cigarette so much as attempting to drag her out of the car and then threatening to "light her up" when he wasn't able to do that and then whatever else he did to her when they were out of the the camera frame. She wasn't arrested for refusing to put out a cigarette so I think you're saying that he didn't deserve to be fired over that is kind of moot.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)a lawful order according to Lee and its causing me atleast to lean tiny bit towards the not firing him area though I am still leaning about 99% towards firing.
KT2000
(20,588 posts)is because he is the one who escalated. No matter what the law may say, he violated police policy which makes him unsuitable for the job. The law would control what someone is criminally liable for but employment relies upon other rules as well. He would not be fired for criminal conduct.He would be fired for not following protocol which had disastrous consequences.
I believe there would be no question he would be fired if he did this to a wealthy white person.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Must can this guy - to send a clear message (unless you never want to send any clear message)
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)I was 100% sure before that he should be fired but after seeing the whole tape I cannot support that anymore.
Why? Because its seems he was pretty calm with her until she refused to put the cigarette out and he seemed pretty civil enough when he asked her to do it like anyone else would be when asking someone to put one out.
Granted her arguing over it was a minor issue and he could have chosen to overlook it but legally? If Lee is right the officer will probably be in the clear because if I understand it correctly now no matter what the alleged provocation is arguing with a police isnt permitted under the law in most states.
Now he might get in trouble for causing the bruise on her back when he arresting her but I kinda doubt he will get in alot of trouble for that since he could claim she resisted arrest which considering the audio on the tape I kinda think she did and struggling with a officer when he is arresting you just seems like a bad choice that will end up with you facing even more charges.
All that aside though that doesnt mean the police department is off the hook for her death because if they knew she had attempted suicide they are probably going to be found negligent for putting her in a cell alone, unmonitored and with a trash bag in a can.
KT2000
(20,588 posts)to put the cigarette out. It was when he said she sounded upset (forgot his exact word) and then after she explained, he said, "Are you through?" At that point he was escalating. It was also then he was preparing for an altercation by telling her to put the cigarette out.
Police training is all about "escalation" and how to prevent it. He did not do that.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)have done a better job in hindsight but we cannot change the past all we can do is try and learn and not repeat the mistakes we make in life.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)where she was going to work.
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)It would actually point a larger finger to murder - if they knew she was about to get out.
Do you have a link to that quote?
840high
(17,196 posts)not pay the bail.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)We have to wait for the family to make statements of fact.
840high
(17,196 posts)n8dogg83
(248 posts)up until she got arrested. Thom Hartmann on his show a few days ago mentioned that the list of side effects on the specific drug she was taking (can't remember the name) included thoughts of suicide for those who suddenlty stop taking the drug. Now i dont know about you, but i sincerely doubt they would have allowed her to continue to take the medication she may have had with her. So its likely she went 3 days without medication, including the possibility of her being heavily drugged with marijuana (which can cause alot of paranoia), something smells very fishy to me.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)or someone of his caliber
shraby
(21,946 posts)involved in the investigation.
All the "answers" from the investigation so far raised more questions than they answered.
I'd like to know how she could have "hung" herself. She would have needed a way to get her feet/body clear of the floor. How did she accomplish that?
The amount of mj in her system needs an explanation as she was in there for more than a day.
Were there ligation marks on her neck? Spots on her eyes from strangulation or lack of oxygen? Nothing was mention of any marks or spots.
These questions are just off the top of my head, I'm sure I could think of more with a report in front of me.
Just thought of other questions.
What were the contents of her stomach? That's part of an autopsy.
What was under her fingernails? That's part of an autopsy.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)Actually no her feet could be on the floor as she could have hung herself simply by wrapping one end of the plastic bag around the upper bunk rail and the other around her neck and if she wrapped it properly all she had to do then was allow her body weight to do the rest.
Assuming she did it right it could cut off the flow of blood in her carotid arteries in which case she would have been out like a light in a few seconds
https://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/q-and-a-how-long-does-it-take-for-someone-to-die-from-carotid-artery-compression/
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)My 1st opine was - someone dying of "asphyxiation" - would have a convulsion reflex and make very loud noises.
Therefore, I need to know exactly how such should transpire. Your link purports a KEY item - that;
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)Photos in this case would have been helpful but I am betting photos were probably the last thing on their minds as they probably panicked and thought "Oh shit we screwed up" and tried to get her down asap to try and revive her.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)even (IF) they didn't do it - they were glad she was dying/dead - and the lawsuit would never materialize.
OOPs!
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)trying to commit suicide before? Well now those documents will come back to haunt them probably in a negligence lawsuit by her parents and thats probably going to be bigger than any lawsuit she might have had herself because her own actions on the dashcam would have made it difficult for her to win ultimately in court imo.
Her parents though dont have to present the dashcam and can maybe get excluded from being shown or presented as evidence at all because it probably wouldnt be relevant to the police departments negligence. All the parents lawyers probably have to prove is that the department knew she had stated she had made past attempts before and that the department was negligent by not monitoring her and leaving something like a trash bag in her cell from which to hang herself.
So no, I dont see them getting away from a lawsuit.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)The possible plan to assure no lawsuit - possibly assured there would be one.
I've already pointed out (in other threads) that "IF" they're claim on your remarks of attempted suicide are true (there are conflicting reports - already noted) - then the authorities are most certainly to blame, for not putting her on "watch" protocols.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)And was her injured arm her dominant arm?
Questions that need answers...
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)This MJ thingy posses more issues than it (tries) to quash
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)I think that is the least likely though. She would have told her family and friend, if she were in pain.
tblue37
(65,490 posts)cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)and as far I can tell she had two of them even though one might be hurting her a bit.
And yes I am speaking experience as I suffer from a winged shoulder on my right side which causes me intense pain most of the time from my wrist all the way up the arm and around to the area between the shoulders and yet I still manage to do day to day chores.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)Or at least not without quite a bit of practice.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)Unless it was broken but even then all it would do is slow her down a bit, if they had been monitoring her though they could have stopped her easily.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)keep her head secure without leaving marks around her neck. and then she fainted or had a seizure? hands back handcuffed to pole.
I wouldn't put it past some prison police to have 'punishments' for cell prisoners they disliked for some reason.
the police cell evidence photo showed the trashbag in the can!! what trashbag did she "hang herself with"???
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)even though there were no signs of a struggle by the medical examiner nor has there been any other evidence as of yet that indicates foul play.
I know they didn't have cameras in the cell she was in but I assume they probably do have a number of them scattered around the jail itself and with them they should be able to do a rough tracking of where the varies officers were around that time to determine if your theory is plausible or not.
As for the trash bag sometimes businesses in the grocery industry will they double line them (overlapping bags one inside another) to make it easier they have to empty once and not have to replace the bag right away so that could be why but a better question is why didnt put someone who admitted to trying suicide under observation? That smacks of negligence imo.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Provided by DailyMail UK - of a local ABC station in Texas
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)to be used in that manner but it depend on two things.
#1 The strength of the plastic that the bags are made of.
#2 The manner in which its been constructed.
I mean hell you can even make rope with plastic bags
http://www.instructables.com/id/very-strong-shopping-bag-rope-no-tools-needed/
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)desk police used the intercom to check on her.
I still think police did something to her, many some things over those 3 days of hell and even if she suicided herself, they drove her to it!
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)and the state could appoint someone to investigate.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)and trust police to have changed nothing in that cell they took the 'evidence photo' of several days ago?
the trash bag in the police photo was still in the can
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)thats what it looks like to me.
It doesnt mean they are lying either if they were double lining the cans like I have seen some places do so they just have to pull the one bag out and not replace it right away but like I pointed out in another post the better question is why did they even leave a person with an alleged past suicide attempt alone in a cell with anything that could be used to kill themselves like in this case a trashbag? Its negligent.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)msrizzo
(796 posts)...if they were double lining the cans, why not use all the trash bags in the can to make a stronger noose, if she really wanted to kill herself?
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)It seems (as pathologicals always do) that the story - keeps changing
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)when you really need them?
drm604
(16,230 posts)As far as I can tell, it's the exact same article as on Fox. I don't like Fox, but they were just running the article straight from the AP, and it's labeled as such on their site. Everyone should stop jumping all over laserhaas about this.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Not sure about that sort of thingy...
drm604
(16,230 posts)You'd still be linking to the same article. Maybe you could add a note that you changed the link to point to AP rather than Fox but that it's the same article.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Thanks
ellennelle
(614 posts)to consolidate most if not all the good points raised:
it she did consume that much, how the hell did that happen IN the jail, exactly?
we assume she was searched and nothing was found; if it had been, they would have also charged her with possession.
therefore, we can only assume it was 'given' to her. given (ahem) she was in her cell alone, the only source would have been staff or official.
or food. most likely this form, because of course, the smell would have been detected by other inmates. and, i suppose we should suppose, by staff and officials. at which point she would have been additionally charged.
so far, all these data points are ones supplied by the 'official story', strung together by, erm, logic.
therefore, the only conclusion that can be drawn here is that she was drugged. and three times the legal limit might be enough to knock her into a deep enough sleep to slip a garbage bag around her head.
motive? as has been noted here before, the five minutes the cop took to check out her plate was plenty to discover her 'sandra speaks' and black lives matter background.
the last thing these folks wanted in this gawdforsaken racist hellhole was an outside infiltrator troublemaker, from obama's chicago no less!
WHERE IS THE DAMN DOJ???
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)True analysis of these (newly developing - not ever known heretofore - purported) FACTs
No mention in the original "suicide" release that she was "drugged" induced to make the hanging tolerable.
Response to laserhaas (Original post)
olddots This message was self-deleted by its author.
chapdrum
(930 posts)she was high - is that what we're being told?
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)The issue is that this new development smacks of B.S. (like everything else in this case)
and (IMO) gives more reason to be suspicious of the authorities and look for independent reviews.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)it was deliberately put in her food.
I strongly doubt she would have accepted a doobie (if it would even be offered) by the shit heads at the jail.
I hope they get to the bottom of this awful, tragic incident.
cstanleytech
(26,319 posts)into a jail but the other option is she had been alot of it before the arrest as the report said and it might have explained her behavior towards the officer.
No I am not saying that it excuses the officer who arrested her because it does not as hes supposed to be a professional but it could mitigate some of it enough that maybe he should not be fired, only saying maybe because I am still leaning 99% towards firing.
whathehell
(29,095 posts)She was shocked at being arrested in the first place -- I doubt she'd want to smoke pot in a place like that,
but I could be wrong.
BTW, I don't think her "behavior" toward the cop was anything special -- If he'd followed protocol, he would
have simply given her a ticket and let her drive on. Instead, he deliberately provoked her with a stupid
question concerning her "irritation" and got pissed off when she answered honestly and calmly. Then he
tried to "push it" further with another petty orders about her cigarette which she had every right to smoke,
and then demanded -- quite outside of 'protocol' -- that she leave her car, threatening to "light her up".
if she didn't.
This was a racist, sexist asshole looking for trouble.
That this young woman on her way to a job should be jailed and then found DEAD three days after
being stopped for a goddamn TRAFFIC Ticket is an outrage.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)that she had used cannabis at least 5 hours before her death? Well, I am Speculating that she may have been unwittingly administered a High Dose of cannabis in her food-without knowledge and consent.
Her phone calls - her vocal clarity does not suggest intoxication by Any means.
5 Hours the main effects have plateaued and begun to subside.
https://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml
I also would want to review any drug test results she had through her New employer. Where the Hell is Sandra's Phone?
I'm not buying the Cannabis angle At all! No way in Hell. And Even IF true...that Does NOT explain nor excuse her Arrest nor does it justify a $5000.00 Bail, nor Three days incarcerated ending in her death. I call bs.
And why did they not discover it while she was Still in custody of the county medical examiner?
It is suspicious for them to all of a sudden want to re autopsy, specific to this so long after the fact. It almost seems like they were alerted by another party and the examiner didn't previously check for drugs for lack of reason/suspicion.
Yep, I don't trust any of them.
udbcrzy2
(891 posts)I think there is something to consider when you compare the 'legal limits' in a live body as comparing it to someone who is deceased. I know that alcohol levels increase in the deceased as they are decomposing. I don't know what happens with THC levels though in a body that is deceased and decomposing. An independent autopsy (which her family has had done) will maybe tell us more.
I haven't seen anything where the family has released their autopsy and they have every right not to if they wish.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Also concur, it is their prerogative, on whether or not, to release the findings (evidence for litigation).
Just hope an A-Class job was done;
but they can always unearth, if a 2nd opinion by a Dr. Baden type is required.
udbcrzy2
(891 posts)I don't know who they got. Baden might be a good choice as long as he is doing the full examine and not just assisting as was done in the Mike Brown case where a 'coroner' performed that independent autopsy.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/private-autopsy-says-brown-shot-times-holder-orders-third-autopsy/article_e27c90b4-8fc9-5118-8f4b-ae98a9d0f552.html
You see, Shawn Parcells isn't qualified to do an autopsy according to the National Association of Medical Examiners.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/missouri-coroners-question-practices-of-forensics-company-operator/article_0662e5b1-dcfa-578f-9487-8ab6a176ea4d.html
I think they made a good choice with their attorney and I'm sure he has some good resources.
http://www.getthecannon.com/
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)This thing, like Trayvon and others - isn't going to go away, easily.
We need experts concurring on the conclusions, based on facts indisputable.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)If that was the case, lots of cancer patients who use cannabis would kill themselves. But they don't.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)None of this makes sense.... including this "belated" revelation that Sandy was full of weed, high beyond the norms.
jmowreader
(50,563 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Maybe police had evidence taken from crimes that was marijuana in eatable form. And they gave her a couple to eat.
I don't think marijuana in her system had anything to do with her death. Those tests can show marijuana use from months ago.
jmowreader
(50,563 posts)Those tests CAN show marijuana use from months ago, but she wouldn't have had the concentration they are reporting if it was months-ago use.
Thinking out loud...if I were a cop who wanted to suicide someone, I think I would give my victim a cocktail of a high dose of THC plus a lower, but effective, dose of a short-half-life benzodiazepine...the benzodiazepine to sedate her enough to string her up, and the THC because you know they're going to test for it first and if they find a shitload of it that's where they'll stop.
FWIW I don't think pot was the cause either - "heightened desire to kill yourself" isn't one of its known side effects.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)In a new town, to start a new job, not enough cash to pay bail bond & a serious Felony to face. People can hang themselves from a doorknob. police are responsible for those under their 'care'
I wish the groups like Black Lives Matter, could set-up a central phone number under a Lawyers name, where persons jailed could call and leave their name & the location where they are jailed. Info could be posted on a message board. Many people go to jail and have no one to call. They disappear into the system and are forgotten.
I am not sure, when people make calls from jail they may not be able to call anyone except family, lawyer, bail bond place.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)never heard of grass doing such