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Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 01:54 PM Aug 2015

Stocks Tumble As Oil Prices Drop Below $46 A Barrel

Source: USA Today

Jane Onyanga-Omara, USA TODAY 12:58 p.m. EDT August 3, 2015

Markets kicked off August in a downbeat fashion as stocks dropped sharply and the price of oil tumbled below $46 a barrel.

The Dow Jones industrial average was down almost 170 points, or 1%, at midday. The Standard & Poor's 500 index dropped 0.6% and the Nasdaq composite index fell 0.7%. .

Energy stocks led the decliners as U.S. benchmark crude dropped 3.6% to $45.41, falling to its lowest level since March.

A report that growth in the manufacturing sector slowed in June added to the downbeat mood on Wall Street. The Institute for Supply Management said Monday that its manufacturing index fell to 52.7 in July, down from 53.5 in June.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2015/08/03/stocks-monday/31049843/

27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Stocks Tumble As Oil Prices Drop Below $46 A Barrel (Original Post) Purveyor Aug 2015 OP
ISM Manufacturing Data Raise Some Doubts About The Economy Purveyor Aug 2015 #1
thats why they always said, stocks have risk of loss Sunlei Aug 2015 #2
I'm constantly in amazement Plucketeer Aug 2015 #3
Obama announcing the end of subsidies for oil and more for green energy may be a proximal cause. Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #4
i doubt it, the markets seem completely detached from reality Amishman Aug 2015 #11
It never fails to blow my mind how when a cost of production/transportation - a raw material price Ed Suspicious Aug 2015 #5
Same here. It seems counter intuative. blackspade Aug 2015 #6
simple really trc Aug 2015 #7
That doesn't answer the question that was asked. blackspade Aug 2015 #18
Probably engineered so the owners/CEOs can do a major stock buy-back, buy low. Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #24
Yeah, but the consumer is getting a huge cost savings which translates into more spending, right? Yavin4 Aug 2015 #22
That's because this article is composed of 100% bullshit Warpy Aug 2015 #8
When did QE end again? What happened to confident projections of immediate collapse? whatthehey Aug 2015 #9
Confident projections of immediate collapse were made by fools Warpy Aug 2015 #10
Because a lot of growth was tied to US oil production due to fracking hack89 Aug 2015 #23
We must act quickly to protect the super-wealthy. Orrex Aug 2015 #12
My parents' neighbor across the street is a welder in the oilfield Ex Lurker Aug 2015 #13
why are gas prices still high? jomin41 Aug 2015 #14
All the price of oil does is establish a floor of what the price is going to be. LanternWaste Aug 2015 #16
certain parts of the gas price doesn't scale with oil price Amishman Aug 2015 #17
First you MUST reduce the price of gasoline by its taxes, 18.4 Cents Federal, more for State. happyslug Aug 2015 #20
Prepare for a surge in truck and SUV sales NickB79 Aug 2015 #15
From who? Most of us dont have that kinda cash these days. cstanleytech Aug 2015 #19
Apparently a lot of people NickB79 Aug 2015 #21
If you don't live in an urban center or major suburb, a truck is the most practical Ex Lurker Aug 2015 #25
Lots of people PasadenaTrudy Aug 2015 #26
A lot of leased vehicles on the road with affordable payments. Purveyor Aug 2015 #27
 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
1. ISM Manufacturing Data Raise Some Doubts About The Economy
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 01:57 PM
Aug 2015

A key report on U.S. manufacturing is raising some doubt about the strength of the economy in the final half of the year.

The Institute for Supply Management’s manufacturing index, released about 30 minutes earlier than scheduled on Monday, fell to 52.7% in July from 53.5% in June.

The decline was unexpected. A survey of economists by MarketWatch had forecast a 53.7% reading.

“It is a slow start to the second half,” said Bradley Holcomb, chair of the ISM’s factory survey committee during a teleconference with reporters. But Holcomb said hopeful of a “solid” final six months of the year.

Survey respondents were mixed about the outlook, with several noting the falling oil price was having negative collateral effects on their businesses. Several others mentioned global uncertainties.

more...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ism-manufacturing-data-released-early-has-soft-tone-2015-08-03

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
4. Obama announcing the end of subsidies for oil and more for green energy may be a proximal cause.
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:04 PM
Aug 2015

All hail Obama and the America's New Green Energy Plan!

Seriously, hail.

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
11. i doubt it, the markets seem completely detached from reality
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:44 PM
Aug 2015

Other happenings in the world of finance are the only thing that moves the needle anymore. To me this is yet another sign that the whole thing is a shell game and a bubble. The real world should have more of an effect on their numbers game than it does.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
5. It never fails to blow my mind how when a cost of production/transportation - a raw material price
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:06 PM
Aug 2015

drops it would hasten a drop in the stock market. It doesn't connect that way in my mind. Somebody explain this to me.

trc

(823 posts)
7. simple really
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:30 PM
Aug 2015

Two of the 30 Dow stocks are ExxonMobil and Chevron, they take a hit, the Dow takes a hit.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
18. That doesn't answer the question that was asked.
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 03:43 PM
Aug 2015

What is the linkage to the material costs with the stock prices of the above companies?

Yavin4

(35,441 posts)
22. Yeah, but the consumer is getting a huge cost savings which translates into more spending, right?
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 05:33 PM
Aug 2015

With lower fuel costs, consumers will have more disposable income which they will spend on other companies in the Fortune 500.

Warpy

(111,273 posts)
8. That's because this article is composed of 100% bullshit
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:32 PM
Aug 2015

The market is hyperinflated. Anyone with any sense at all knows this. All those billions of QE money that went to support the economy just allowed corporations to buy their own stocks to pump up the price and make a few people super rich on the inflated face value, usually their own executives who ordered the purchases.

Today's drop is happening because some fat cat decided to drop a huge block of stock because he's shoring up shakier investments, he's buying up oil futures at bargain basement prices because he thinks they'll climb up fast, his currency has gotten higher against the dollar and he wants his paper profits, or just because it's Monday. That made other people nervous enough to drop a bunch of theirs.

The truth about the stock market is that it's a casino if all you care about is the paper price of the stock. If you invest for income, as my dad did, that paper is going to generate income no matter whether it's $100 a share of ten cents a share. That's why it's very unlikely the stock market will ever go to zero, not in this lifetime. Good stocks represent return on investment.

Low oil prices would be great for the economy if we still made much here. Since our industry is offshored, other places will reap most of the benefit of low energy costs. The big loser will be ISIS, not the stock market, something I strongly suspect was the aim all along.

Warpy

(111,273 posts)
10. Confident projections of immediate collapse were made by fools
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:42 PM
Aug 2015

While I make reasonably confident projections about ultimate collapse, I'm not nearly stupid enough to provide a timetable.

The same fools usually predicted Weimar style inflation in an economy where most signs were pointing to deflation.

QE ended some time ago, which is why the market has been flat for months, the Dow at 18000 plus or minus 500-700.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
23. Because a lot of growth was tied to US oil production due to fracking
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 05:43 PM
Aug 2015

as oil prices go down, US fracking become uneconomical and it is a money losing proposition to pump it. That impacts a myriad of industries (besides the oil companies). The railroads, for example, will take a huge hit in profits as they ship less oil.

Ex Lurker

(3,814 posts)
13. My parents' neighbor across the street is a welder in the oilfield
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:50 PM
Aug 2015

Makes well over six figures working two weeks on, two weeks off, and lives in a very upscale, mostly white collar neighborhood. I wonder how much longer his job will last.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
16. All the price of oil does is establish a floor of what the price is going to be.
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 03:33 PM
Aug 2015

All the price of oil does is establish a floor of what the price is going to be. Pay attention to the supply of gasoline for delivery to the marketplace, as well as the consumer habits-- those determine price at the pump as much as barrel pricing. What's going to tell you the maximum price is going to be the supply of refined product-- is it short or long.

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
17. certain parts of the gas price doesn't scale with oil price
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 03:35 PM
Aug 2015

I think I've read somewhere that crude is only about 60% of the cost of gas, the rest is infrastructure, tax, refining, transport, and overhead / profit taking.

So by that math, if you go from $100 oil to $50 oil, the price of gas would only drop by 30%. So if it was $3.75 at $100 a barrel it would be $2.63 at $50. Seems pretty close to right, the might be doing a little extra profit taking but nothing insane.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
20. First you MUST reduce the price of gasoline by its taxes, 18.4 Cents Federal, more for State.
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 04:51 PM
Aug 2015

Which goes from 30.65 cents a gallon in Alaska, to 70 cents a gallon in Pennsylvania (this Includes the 18,4 cents a gallon Federal Fuel Tax).

Thus in my area of Pennsylvania, gasoline is selling for $2. 75 a gallon, 70 cents of that is tax.

There is also 42 gallons to a barrel on oil, thus any price per barrel has to be divided by 42 to get a price per gallon (Please note some sources says we get 44 gallons of "Product" out of each barrel of oil. That 44 barrels includes light oils, and heavy oils. Thus out of every barrel of oil you do NOT get 42 gallons of gasoline, but a mix of Gasoline and other products. You can produce more gasoline per barrel and less diesel/home heating oil/jet fuel per barrel depending on the process, but you will always have SOME gasoline or Diesel being produced out of each barrel of oil). For our proposes 42 gallons or gasoline per barrel is good enough to approximate price of gasoline per gallon . Thus 46 dollars a barrel divided by 42 equals just over $1.095 per gallon.

Distribution costs are quite low, about 40 cents a gallon according to a report out of California:

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/

Refining cost tends to be running about another 40 cents during down times (can be as high a $1.40 during peak demand periods). Thus about 80 cents can be attributed to refining and distribution costs (and remember DISTRIBUTION COSTS increases the further you get from New Jersey or Texas, where most of the larger refineries are located, lower distribution costs closer to Texas and New Jersey, higher costs further away, 20 cents near Texas and New Jersey, 40 to 50 cents in the Mountains of Pennsylvania).

Side Note: Most gasoline in Middle America comes by barge up the Mississippi and Ohio River systems. Thus highest costs are in Pittsburgh then in St Louis. on the other hand the distribution costs are NOT that different, as compared to shipping it from those rivers inland, that is done by way less efficient trucks. The further from those rivers (and the New Jersey and Texas Coasts) the higher the cost of getting the gasoline to your local service station.

Go back to my price of $2.79, 70 cents for taxes, 80 cents for refining and distribution (I do live in the Mountains of Pennsylvania, so these tend to run higher then Philadelphia). Thus I have a minimum price of $1.50 per gallon when the price of oil is ZERO dollars per gallon (Lower prices as you near Philadelphia, not lower taxes but lower distribution costs).

Thus at the price of $46 dollars a barrel, prices will drop. You are looking at about $2.50 a gallon at $46 dollars a barrel in Pennsylvania.

Now, some distribution costs are lower then 40 cents a gallon, many gas stations use gas as a come on, they break even on gasoline and hope you buy things inside the store instead (i.e. such stores are willing to eat most of the 40 cents a gallon distribution costs as long as it brings in customers, thus $2,10 or $2.00 a gallon prices are possible).

On the other hand, $2,00 a gallon appears to be the bottom price of gasoline today in Pennsylvania given the refining, distribution and Gasoline taxes costs involved when it comes to the price of gasoline AND $46 a barrel for the price of oil. Lower prices for oil could reduce the price of gasoline closer to $1.50 if the cost of refining and distribution can be contained, but that appears to be the low end price for gasoline in Pennsylvania given gasoline taxes AND distribution costs.

Now, one more economic fact. In the 1990s, the last time we had an "Oil Glut" it was seen that the price of any price INCREASE from the well head to your local gasoline station took about four weeks, as people raised the price of gasoline to reflect what they were paying for they next set of gasoline to be sold, not the actual price of the gasoline being sold as of that date. On the other hand, prices CUTS, took eight weeks to go from well head to service station, as people did NOT want to take a loss on selling gasoline for less then they had paid for the gasoline they were selling, even through newer gasoline were even cheaper.

Thus I see a drop in the price of gasoline, but it will take a couple of months to take affect. Thus we will NOT see that much of a drop and it will be two months from now, not today when you look at the price of gasoline (and it will be a gradual drop over that two months, no big large drop, as gasoline sellers try to buy just enough gasoline that they can sell before the next price cut. We will see a slow drop in price unless someone does something, like invade Iraq etc.

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
21. Apparently a lot of people
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 05:06 PM
Aug 2015
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/08/03/nissan-us-sales-up-8-big-vehicles-soar/31046075/

The major automakers posted strong U.S. sales performances in July as the auto industry creeps closer to its first full year of 17 million-unit sales since before the Great Recession.

The automakers reaped profits from consumers' rush to buy bigger vehicles as gasoline prices remain low. SUV sales stood out.

"That segment of the market continues to be smoking hot," said Mark LaNeve, Ford's sales chief, on a conference call.

Low gas prices spelled sales declines for many small models, leaving distinct questions about how the automakers can sell fuel-sipping cars without piling on incentives.


Ex Lurker

(3,814 posts)
25. If you don't live in an urban center or major suburb, a truck is the most practical
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 06:09 PM
Aug 2015

vehicle you can own. In some areas it's almost a necessity for at least one of the family vehicles to be a truck. I own one, and would own one regardless of gas prices. This just makes the operating cost a little more reasonable.

PasadenaTrudy

(3,998 posts)
26. Lots of people
Mon Aug 3, 2015, 06:23 PM
Aug 2015

are doing just fine. All I see are new Range Rovers here in gridlocked L.A. Well, new Audis too

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