Clans stick together. "Family" doesn't mean "brother, sister, mother, father" but "1st cousin, uncle, second cousin". Many houses in rural areas in the ME are large because the "family" includes 4 or 5 different brother-fathers with their wives, a set of grandparents, uncles and all the kids or grandkids.

Assimilation is also crucial, the problem being that most of those doing the welcoming are also against assimilation. Meaning that society is balkanized, immigrants often wind up in nearly self-imposed ghettoes, and the Western educated class can't figure out how it is that their dream of a non-assimilated cultures living completely intermixed with not just tolerance but appreciation fails to be met. It doesn't help that instead of gratitude for help they just have demands for why others aren't helping them. They should be treated with sufficient dignity, but often their demands exceed the basics. Yes, there are a lot of cases where they are not treated well. That does not negate the excess nature some of the demands that have been recorded as being made. (You want to argue that there are wrongs, fine; but don't let that argument mask the existence of and provide hand-waving to cover up the other wrong, which is likely to prove far more problematic in the long run.)

It's noteworthy that to find safety, their ostensible goal, after 5 years of war they only now have produced a huge wave that ignores numerous safe havens in order to move to the most prosperous countries, those with already established coherent communities that they don't have to assimilate to (much). They're not moving through Georgia to Russia, for example, or sloshing though Iran into India or through Egypt for Ethiopia. We insist they're fleeing war, but it's a very selective, very time-constrained kind of emergency. Some are fleeing for their lives; some are opportunistic, and out of an abundance of mercy and empathy we reject the very suggestion of a hint of a difference between the two. We call them "refugees" but know that we mean "permanent migrants." If we didn't weasel through the language, the PR would be harder to maintain. Suddenly the deaths wouldn't be horrible tragedies or our responsibility, but the result of risk taking gone wrong and their responsibility for choosing that risk.

It's also a convenient shift of focus, because the economic migrants continue from the South and are now assumed to be part of the same refugee wave. That wave of "refugees" wound up being not so attractive politically and for PR because it wasn't empathy-inducing enough when it was floated in the media--it's okay to deny somebody seeking better economic conditions because that's entailed by the idea of national sovereignty and control over the border. But war refugees are a special, protected class. The Syrian tyke dead on the beach while reporters showed up and shot pictures and video before and as the man retrieved his daughter's body in a fit of suddenly uncontrolled grief made for great PR as a war refugee; had his father said, "I just wanted to make more money, that's why I risked my child's life" many would have thrown rotten fish at him. Same with the Syrian screaming out "kill me" in English for the sake of the guards who only spoke Hungarian. It's like during other protests where the Arabic-speaking protesters marching against their Arabic-speaking governments chant in English while holding signs in English. It's plausibly theater, and it's been done enough that it's easy to make the assumption that it's just more of the same.

I think of what's going on as the Vandal or Goth effect. Given the choice of invading the Saami or the Balts to the East, they primarily moved to the prosperous Roman empire.

In this case, however, I have to wonder. If the 300k or 400k male refugees all rose up against Assad, an-Nusra, the IS, wouldn't the war just be over?

Again--since those who only know extremes, either/or modes of thought, will immediately assume that this is all RW blather, there are war refugees. But the suddenness makes me wonder if a chink in the migration policy that suddenly allows all immigration standards to be abrogated hasn't just let a lot of people who were frustrated by having their societies not change and feel no reason to change their societies just want to move where things are better. I.e., economic migrants. These might be refugees who've been stationed in 3rd countries, new migrants who'd rather move 1000 miles instead of 200, people who have been waiting for their uncle's cousin Tariq to send for them.

Who knew?

looked but not sure what search terms pull it up

http://www.migrationsinfo.se/fragor-och-svar/hur-mycket-pengar-fr-flyktingar/
fast translation
if the applicant lives at one of the (immigration facilities where food is included the daily allowance is
3 dollars per day ( adult single )
2.50 dollars per person adult sharing house hold
1.50 per day per child (max 17) (from 3'd child the allowance of 1.50 is halved)

If the applicant has own 'domicile' and do own shopping of groceries the allowance is
8.8 per day single adult
7.6 per day sharing adults
4.6 per day per kid up to 3 years
5.4 per day per kid 4-10
6.25 per child 11-17 (at third child the allowance of 6.25 is halved)

that's the official ones...(so less than official German)
add in that if the rate of rent is high there is no 'citizen' limit on 'section 8' (extra support for paying rent) (i had this for a short while..it covered 50% of my rent)
childrens allowance (for swedes) is also available to refugees/immigrants
money supplement (socialbidrag)
buspasses...are cheaper for refugees than for citizens
there is a higher priority in 'queues for housing' for immigrants than for swedes in many cities

are these things that swedes should address by kicking out the government...probably
i just wish they could without going Svd (swedish democrats (sverige demokraterna...really really anti immigrant))

from my understanding though (in germany one pays extra for healthcare, dental care and eyecare as well as language and occupational training (for instance, doctor in iran is nice but needs to be re-certified..takes training)

(how do i know..well my mom is a teacher swedish 4 immigrants) she actually had 20 year old fathers of 2 making more than her 40 year teacher salary...doing nothing but learning swedish and having kids in school

that's for Sweden

for the UK ..ask a brit..i'm sure the under the table allowances are big there too

I'm glad people have found a place to go but you'd think they'd be happier relocating to another middle eastern country. Yes I understand Turkey feels like it is being overrun and we pretty much crapped up Iraq. But there is a ton of money floating around the gulf states that can help these folks. If they have to refugee clear to Europe then something is wrong...... thank goodness they CAN find a safe place but wow.

For all the talk of the "western world" being miserly why aren't other Islamic states helping their own?

But I agree, other Islamic states should indeed be helping Syrian refugees, and shame on them.

Nobody should look to Saudi Arabia as a benchmark for human rights role model, we can probably all agree on.

The ancestor that got us to America was kidnapped into forced labor and pretty much left for dead in Virginia. Thankfully survived and procreated. If I were much of a writer I'd make up something interesting to fill in all those blanks..... sell it for a zillion bucks and never have to do rich people's taxes again. LOL.

And yes, we agree on the Saudis.

the written English word. Have a great Sunday, KentuckyWoman.

Some Arab countries should be stepping up to help.

Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey aren't awash in oil money and Iraq has its own problems. Yet all these countries have hundreds of thousands of refugees.

yes, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, et al seem to have taken exactly zero, but if the refugees initially went to Turkey then it's easier to get to Europe than back in the other direction through war zones. And why make the assumption that they's be 'happier' in the middle east if that meant living in a place like Saudi Arabia with its repressive regime?


Here's some good info:

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/5/9265621/syrian-refugee-charts

pronounced. It just seems like a recipe for disaster later on down the road. Why are no other gulf states helping out with this crisis? Why does it always come down to Europe?

is offering to take some refugees into his home. Says it was his family's decision. And he wasn't even responsible for the mess in the ME.

Have GWB, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and the gang offered to take any into their homes?

Last edited Sun Sep 6, 2015, 11:50 AM - Edit history (1)

With his irresponsible attack on Libya? Or his non-action in Syria?

in Libya NATO initially claimed they were acting to prevent a slaughter that Gaddafi was threatening in Benghazi. Of course then it became a no-fly zone to prevent attacks on the rebels by Gaddafi's air force.

Assad was Iran's ally as well as Putin's ally and customer so the chance of starting a big war in Syria that nobody wanted may have deterred NATO from acting, though I don't know the official reasons for inaction. The geographical difference between Libya and Syria may have also played into it. It's also possible that Israeli intelligence was afraid of what might happen after Assad was gone and advised against intervening and creating instability.

I don't blame Obama too much for the inability to neatly recover from the monumental disasters created by his foolish, greedy predecessors.

so it can be dismantled because there are too many "takers". You just have to get enough voters to believe this.

Last edited Mon Sep 7, 2015, 01:06 PM - Edit history (1)

of Germans and Austrians, I hope Syrians and others in the ME appreciate it. For Germany this may actually help with their old age problem. Germany says they will take 800,000 refugees. Most of the ones entering now are men, who have left their families behind. So if these refugees are accepted and later on they bring their families, I think you would have to estimate at least quintupling that number so I figure 5 mill or so immigrants. Germany's population is 80 mill. If US takes half a mill refugees which I think we can do as our population is over 350 mill and those would be whole families instead of just men traveling alone and entire rest of Europe takes half mill which would translate into 3 mill with families, that's almost 10 mill and Syrian population is I think 23 mill. Still think Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia, other gulf nations should do their share. They are not good members of the world community. I never understood why Jordan Lebanon, Turkey agreed to take so many refugees, but I assume they are receiving money for it.

I'm sorry but what this brings home more than anything is overpopulation. Educating girls is key as educated women = less children.

Edited to say not sure if Germany thought this through, probably only mean to take one mill refugees but they have to realize that usually when immigrants come, it means other family members will come, which shouldn't be necessarily negative, as long as these numbers are accounted for. In this political climate, doubtful that US would take half a mill Syrians.

Ultimately though I think UK has it right in saying they will only take from refugee camps in Jordan, lebanon, turkey. That is the way to do it IMO, not this way that encourages people to come like a flood. It would hopefully be more organized and more likely for legitimate refugees to come.