Moose hunting ... fucking ridiculous! Fuck hunters.

Do you eat meat?

but hunters like myself and my wife hunt for all of our meat, we refuse to eat that crap they sell in the supermarkets that are loaded with chemicals.

I've never understood the hatred towards those of us that choose to hunt rather than buy meat.
I do get the hatred towards trophy hunters, but the vast majority of hunters aren't trophy hunters.

link?

Most folks hunt and fish for a good portion of their meat up there. I did not buy hamburger for ten years up when I lived there.

And won't arrow anything smaller than 120", (and never rifle hunt) BUT.....they also fill the freezer with opportunity meat eventually during the bow season.


Our youth weekend starts Tomorrow, I pulled out the 7mm08 last night, and put the top on the Jeep for the winter. Tonight we'll shoot it a few times to confirm zero. We may go out for a few hours Friday evening, then Saturday morning and evening. I'm normally happy if we take a deer or two a season, that's my main goal.

Now of the 100's of other hunters I know, some dream of trophys but none actually spend the time and money to hunt that way. Me I want to get season wrapped up and in the freezer because I have better things to do on cold, wet fall and winter mornings....Like fish.

Not enough table meat in Texas?

Guy's gonna starve unless he hoofs it to The Last Frontier for his dinner?

or if he likes the taste of Moose, of which, AFAIK, can't be had in the lower 48.

then he was trophy-hunting, not trying to feed his family.

He thought he'd blast his trophy, and then hop the next flight to River Oaks, where he could mount a moosehead on the wall of his man-cave. But he fucked with a mother bear and her cubs like a moron, and got what was coming to him. He has his life; he doesn't need my sympathy.

Are you aware of the living conditions of those factory farms that supply those stores with meat?

This is your typical chicken factory farm.



Here's your typical bovine factory farm.



And here's your typical pig factory farm.



This is what you support by telling people to go buy meat at a store.
No thanks, I'll continue to hunt and eat my meat that's free of chemicals and steriods.

I don't support factory farming. And I don't support trophy hunting.

By your way of thinking, if you support trophy hunting rationalized as clean, healthy living, then you support the eradication of all wildlife on the planet and the collapse of complex, fragile ecosystems all over the world.

Is that a fair characterization of your view of meat hunting?

I didn't think so...

Talk to the hand...

I never said I support trophy hunting, I detest is and think it should be banned, but I do support hunting for food in a legal manner.
Sorry if I gave the impression that I trophy hunt or support trophy hunting, nothing could be further from the truth, we eat what we hunt, and what we don't eat is donated to feed the less fortunate.

You have your work cut out for you, on that one......

get the "benefits" of cancer, antibiotic resistance, etc. from the chemicals and growth hormones.

OTOH, you can find grass-fed beef and organic, free range chicken in most supermarkets nowadays, if not at farmer's markets and direct from a farm/ranch. Yes, it costs more than cheap meat from these factory farms, but well worth it.

but we also like the taste of venison, wild hogs and game birds.
We never hunt what we don't eat and what we don't freeze or smoke, we donate to the local food pantry in Flagstaff for the needy.

We try to be good stewards of the land and I just don't get the hatred of subsistence hunters by some right here on this board.

Trophy hunters? They're not real hunters, they're head hunters only, and I think they deserve the hatred and ridicule, but not subsistence hunters.

That you are killing for no reason, yeah I'm gonna chastise the shit out of you.

I say, and my say is all that counts for me, I'm hunting for my health.
Chastise away, I know what you're all about, you want to dictate what others eating habits should be, that's a republican trait, not a progressive trait.

Pretty funny

Pretty funny that you can't see the difference, regardless, your opinion of my hunting is not going to deter me from harvesting meat for the coming winter, I plan to have a freezer full of venison, pork, turkey, dove, etc. to cook and consume, and what we don't need will be donated to those less fortunate than us.
We may even harvest xtra to help feed the homeless during our harsh winter season here in Flagstaff.

Both are killing animals for pleasure.

you think I'm hunting animals for pleasure?
I don't hunt for pleasure, I hunt for the health of me and my wife, and before you start again with you don't need meat to survive, I don't give a shit how you live, I live the life I'm comfortable with, and I'm VERY comfortable hunting for our food.

moose hunter. If he was so poor he couldn't afford meat in a TX market, he could hunt rabbits, deer or get road kill. Or raise some chickens in his backyard.

Texas Head Hunters. The bears come running when they hear gun shots because they have learned there will be a huge meal left behind when 'hunters' are done.

the bear was in a refuge protecting her babies. he went to her house to kill.

seems open and shut to me

I think it's an abomination to kill an innocent animal. As long as there are plants and whatever else I can eat to avoid it, I will not participate in it.

but kindly don't condemn those that choose a different lifestyle than yours.
We choose to hunt our meat rather than support those abominable factory farms where the animals live and die in horrible conditions.
And the meat that we don't eat gets donated to our local food pantry for the less fortunate, who are damn glad to have it.

Those fucked up Alaskan shows where the outcasts and misfits of society live off the grid killing anything that breathes for food are despicable - they take away from nature animals that belong to the rest of us. What I can't stand is when they moan about how scarce game is as compared to previous years, how the fish are fewer this run than last - can't they realize what part they are playing in that diminishing game? What are they going to do when the last moose, the last deer, the last salmon is taken from nature ?
The meat you don't eat gets donated - and that makes you feel better as you shoot that animal? For God's sake, stop killing wild animals. A lifestyle that robs what belongs to all is a selfish lifestyle.

that's loaded with all kinds of nasty chemicals and steroids, and I do enjoy being among nature.

And yes, I do feel better knowing that those less fortunate than me and my wife are able to provide fresh, wholesome meat, along with whatever veggies and fruits we don't eat.
We also provide at least 1 Turkey at Thanksgiving to the local homeless shelter, as do others in our area.

If it offends your sensibilities, too fucking bad, I could care less that you don't like it, and BTW, the Deer, Turkeys, Elk, wild Hogs, game birds are plentiful in our area of AZ, so there is no shortage of game to hunt.

Attitude I'd expect. Now go out and shoot something . You've got a mind-set that justifies what your doing and the Turkey hand-out must really make you feel good about the whole thing.

I could care less if you condemn it, I'll keep on doing what I've done for my whole life, that is, hunt for food and help those that are less fortunate than myself and my wife.

"choose to hunt rather than eat that fucked up factory farm crap..."
The rational mind realizes there are more than simply two options available, regardless of how we attempt to rationalize our choices in order to better validate them to ourselves if no one else.

"If it offends your sensibilities, too fucking bad, I could care less that you don't like it..."
I used to become irrational and somewhat hysterical when my choices were criticized too rather than simply accept that other people do not share the same precise ethics as do. Though the latter speaks better for our character, the former certainly allows us the petulant and visceral reaction our base minds desire.

As humans see it now the only way to control wildlife population is to kill. More fun for the bloodthirsty. When I want my cat to stop procreating I get her fixed at the vet. It's not unusual to hear of catch-and-release fixing of feral cats. I dream of a human population that would do the same for innocent wildlife.

And now various posters can call me crazy. I welcome their hatred.

as do others that choose a different lifestyle than yours.
You don't hear me condemning your way of living, please don't condemn those that choose a different lifestyle.

and it does you credit and I believe you deserve my respect.

But your lifestyle includes murder. This is why you and I will never agree, sadly.

I fully understand that I cannot impel others to behave like me so I will go no further.

That would be one drawback. But at least the bear was able to fight back against the killer who traveled from Texas to take life in Alaska.

he was hunting for Moose.

I understand there are those who oppose hunting, eating meat, etc., fine, oppose all you want, that's your right, but please don't condemn those of us who choose to hunt and eat meat.

Just don't pretend that it is necessary that you eat meat to survive. Just like a trophy hunter doesn't need a trophy to live, a human does not need animal flesh to live.

but it is desirable to me and hundreds of millions in this world.

As I said, it's your right to lead the lifestyle you desire, please respect others who lead a different lifestyle.

And bash a trophy hunter for desiring a trophy?

There's a world of difference between subsistence hunters and trophy hunters, please don't equate one with the other.

They hunt for something to hang on their wall.
No difference at all.

I eat what I hunt and kill, while trophy hunters for the most part don't.

Spare me your faux outrage, you're comparing my hunting habits to trophy hunters which is despicable.

a fact you fail to grasp.
Again, don't compare subsistence hunters with trophy hunters, there is no comparison.

for "subsistence", yet you do not need to eat meat to live. Be honest, you love the taste of animal flesh, just like a trophy hunter loves the way a carcass looks in his home.

and your lies and faux outrage are getting tiresome.
Buh bye.

"but we also like the taste of venison"
soooooo...... no bullshit from me.

which is an outright lie.

You have computers, electricity, and the internet.
You hunt for your taste buds.

Sorry

And I'm not sorry.

if you can't see the difference, then I can't help you, have a nice life with your faux outrage and false premises.

Justify your killing any way you want.

Justify your faux outrage and false premises any way you want.

traveling the globe for rare animals .

inside its borders?

Seems like a bit of sadism involved in choosing that name and letting sub-humans have their holidays there.

Don't they think animals will try to protect their helpless young in their own homes?

What kind of people can find real satisfaction in killing, anyway? I'd never want to know one of them, or even speak with one. They have nothing in common with human beings.

A "refuge" where hunting large animals is allowed is no refuge.

in NJ most of us knew to stay out of bear country when mama bear was watching out for her cubs.

If bear attacks are becoming a problem, close the place. Bears don't hunt humans-- they attack when bothered.

. . . but that doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.

maybe even the same thing. We sometimes called the bears in NJ and PA brown bears.

Anyway, grizzlies or Kodiaks might attack under some circumstances (like if they are really, really hungry) but the only bear I heard of to go out of its way to hunt humans is the polar bear. If it sees you first, you are dinner.

But, mama bears of any species will do you in if they think you are messing with their kids.

. . . there is actually no genetic distinction between the two.

As I cited below, the BlacK Bear is the bear of the deep forest, it can survive in open plains but in that type of terrain the Black Bear is an easy meal for a Brown Bear/Grizzly Bear.

Now, the European Brown Bear and the American Grizzly are considered the same species, and along with the Alaska Brown Bear and the Kodiak Bear subspecies of the "Brown Bear" (i.e completely interbreedable).

The Polar Bear is considered a separate specie from the Brown Bear family, but is a very close relative, i.e. can produce healthy young. that themselves can breed, if a Polar Bear interbreed with a Brown Bear. That is NOT true of any Black Bear and Any Polar or Brown bear, to huge a genetic difference.

As to the Black Bear its closest relative is the Asiatic Black Bear, which looks like the American Black Bear except for a huge white V on the Chest of the Asiatic Black Bear. It is believed these two species can interbreed, but given there are at least 1000 miles from where the America Black Bear and the Asiatic Black bear lives it does not happen.

Please note, some Black Bears have Brown Fur, they are still considered Black Bears NOT Brown Bears.

I was talking about Brown bears and Grizzlies. Read the context of the discussion. (Actually, upon rereading it myself, I can see how you might have thought I was referring to Brown and Black bears. But I was talking about brown and grizzly bears.) If you read the entire subthread, beginning with post #4, the context is clear.

If they are on Kodiak Island, they can be called a Kodiak. Black bears are a separate species. If a grizz is chasing you, climb a tree. If it's a Black Bear, don't bother, they'll climb up right behind you. Blacks aren't usually aggressive towards humans though there have been exceptions.

Black bears rarely attack Humans, and most attacks are Mother bears with cubs. The main reason is Black bears can climb trees and that is their first choice if they see themselves in danger:

https://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Wildlife-Library/Mammals/Black-Bear.aspx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_black_bear

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/bears-a-humans/119-how-dangerous-are-black-bears.html

Range of the American Black Bear:



The nearest relative to the American Black Bear is the Asiatic Black Bear:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_black_bear


Alaska Brown Bears are a subspecies of the Grizzly/Brown bear family:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Peninsula_brown_bear

The Brown Bear is the name of the Family of bears that is called the "Brown Bear" in Europe and Asia, but the Grizzly in North America. They can NOT climb trees anywhere near what a Black Bear can, thus did not exist in the Eastern US prior to Colonization (Eastern US did not have enough open land for Grizzlies thus the only bear east of the Mississippi was the Black Bear):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_bear

Brown Bear Range:

Please see my post #5, which sets the context for this exchange.

black bears are a different species, and come in all colors, including brown and sorta blonde.

In Alaska a "brown bear" will be found near the coast (75 mi is the rule of thumb I believe) and a "grizzly" further inland. The former has a higher protein diet (all that sweet salmon) and will typically be larger; the latter has to work harder for a living and is proportionally more dangerous. But imho the black bears are the most dangerous*: they look kinda cute and not too big or intimidating and they don't seem to be as shy of humans...with all the problems that can arise from those characteristics.

*I agree polar bears are the nastiest; fortunately they are also the scariest.

What I learned in Alaska is "there is no such thing as an unprovoked attack"...but you may not know what provoked it. Getting too near the cubs, or a food cache will do it, but so can a toothache (on the bear's part) or, in at least one case, a long memory--one very aggressive bear, when finally killed, was found to have old gunshot wounds.

You get an O, B, and A, and the W flipped upside down is an M. You know what that spells? O B A M A. Alaska is where Sarah Palin is. Just sayin'.

bothers me that the guy is from tx. probably paid a buttload of $ for his trophy

the expense for this kind of travel and gear is not cheap

another bored one percenter?

Because animals are separated from their children, tortured, and slaughtered by the millions on a daily basis in order to provide food for the non-vegans among us.

and I have sympathy for the bear and her cubs, I hope all they do is dart her and her cubs and relocate them to a more remote part of Alaska.

How much of Alaska is "more remote" yet still conducive to raising a family
of bears than her present location (in a "wildlife refuge" FFS!)?

I understand your "hunting only for food" viewpoint and applaud it but fail
to see why it should be the unfortunate bear & cubs that have to be moved
from their territory rather than just stopping POS trophy hunters like that
from flying from Texas to Alaska in order to "do the manly thing" ...

Actually, that's not completely true: I *do* see that it is done purely for
financial reasons (allow rich bastards to kill things for money) but cannot
see why the response should be "move the bears" rather than "stop the humans".

Or possibly others may see context and nuance where it exits and differentiate eating from being entertained by killing.

However, I can certainly understand that many people are unable or unwilling to perceive context within nuance, and a difference by degrees should their own righteous nobility and pretense of ethical excellence depend on such.

The Alaska Department of Fish and Game recently issued this bulletin...

"Warning: In light of the rising frequency of human/grizzly bear conflicts, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game is advising hikers, hunters and fishermen to take extra precautions and keep alert of bears while in the field.

We advise outdoorsmen to wear noisy little bells on their clothing, so as not to startle bears that aren't expecting them. We also advise outdoorsmen to carry pepper spray with them in case of an encounter with a bear.

It is also a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear activity. Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear manure: Black bear manure is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear manure has little bells in it and smells like pepper."

As soon as I saw this thread I knew I would see fuck hunters they all suck ect

Well to all the righteous anti hunters have you watched deer starve to death from overpopulation in the winter?

There are many more deer here in NY than there was a 100 years ago and its a real problem, and venison tastes good. More hunting tags should be given out to cull the population.

MYTH:

"It’s more humane to shoot 200 deer than let them linger in starvation."

REALITY:

HUNTING TRIGGERS HERD GROWTH. It’s simple science: When part of the animal population is removed, new animals migrate in, or the remaining population rebounds due to food abundance. The deer propagate and the population increases. Since hunters always want more deer to shoot, they kill bucks over does. Pregnant does left with an ample food supply tend to give birth to a higher ratio of fawns. In most states there are 3 does for every buck. In Michigan and Pennsylvania, there are over 20 does per each buck. With less bucks competing for territory, mating becomes the primary focus of the herd.

Starvation? When is the last time you heard a hunter claim to track down the sickest, thinnest deer in an effort to “wean” the herd? Natural selection maintains deer herd size. Starvation is an essential mechanism of natural selection. Without humans, guns, arrows or traps—the weak naturally die off and the strong survive.

And don't these people have better things to do with their time on earth than shoot to death woodland creatures?

Never go into bear country without bells. Of course that would scare aware all the moose.

A lot of bears, it's near winter hibernation there are much less salmon than used to be. Sometimes no salmon at all, that species is over fished and due to climate change there may not be water in rivers/streams that used to be fine.

Other bears will eat yearling cubs, the 'mothers' are extremely hungry & aggressive.

The title to me indicates its a place where animals should be SAFE & hunting should be OFF LIMITS?

each season on their wildlife refuges, but I'm not sure, maybe someone from AK can be more specific.