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muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts) Thu Sep 24, 2015, 05:22 AM Sep 2015

Hajj stampede: At least 717 killed in Saudi Arabia

Last edited Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:10 AM - Edit history (3)

Source: BBC

At least 717 people taking part in the Hajj pilgrimage have been killed in a stampede near the Islamic holy city of Mecca, officials in Saudi Arabia say.

Another 805 people were injured in the incident at Mina, which occurred as two million pilgrims were taking part in the Hajj's last major rite.

They converge on Mina to throw stones at pillars representing the devil.

...
Saudi-owned al-Arabiya TV reported that the head of the central Hajj committee, Prince Khaled al-Faisal, had blamed the stampede on "some pilgrims with African nationalities".

But the head of Iran's Hajj organisation, Said Ohadi, told Irna that two routes to the Jamarat pillars had been inexplicably closed off by the Saudi authorities, resulting in the build-up in pilgrims.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34346449

(updates added; notice the blame is now being thrown around)

36 replies

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Highlight:

Hajj stampede: At least 717 killed in Saudi Arabia (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 OP

Horrible trusty elf Sep 2015 #1

May they all rest in peace leftynyc Sep 2015 #2

hardly news... happens every year. ellenrr Sep 2015 #3

And this death count is nowhere near the record ... JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2015 #4

exactly, one year 1400 people died, ellenrr Sep 2015 #29

I watched a program about LiberalElite Sep 2015 #5

I feel the same way !! secondwind Sep 2015 #7

I don't even like going to concerts or sporting events - too many people! Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #10

I'm the same wordpix Sep 2015 #33

I'll take a private concert in my living room. Maybe she'd let me harmonize. Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #36

Don't EVER read about the Black Hole of Calcutta, then... Blue_Tires Sep 2015 #31

This happens every year.. I don't understand why they can't come up with a way to avoid this. secondwind Sep 2015 #6

Actually, this is the worst since 1990; 2006 was almost as bad, and they made changes muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #8

Now reporting more than 700 hlthe2b Sep 2015 #9

k and r. nt Stuart G Sep 2015 #11

reminds me of the Eloi in The Time Machine RussBLib Sep 2015 #12

Here's what it looked like in 1953: hunter Sep 2015 #13

I'm dismayed to read this...You'd think the Saudis would be Blue_Tires Sep 2015 #19

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #24

thanks for that pic. from 1953, ellenrr Sep 2015 #30

like can't they like do this on like Skype or something ? olddots Sep 2015 #14

IMHO, Islam could use a pope-equivalent or a synod-like body Retrograde Sep 2015 #22

Traveling to Mecca to perform the rituals outside of Hajj week is called Umrah jmowreader Sep 2015 #26

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #28

Brainwashed by fiction and superstition.. vkkv Sep 2015 #15

So are the Saudis looking to stir up hunger for a war with "some African nations?" nt valerief Sep 2015 #16

Is this the dumbest mass event held every year or is there one more ignorant? snooper2 Sep 2015 #17

+1000 smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #20

+1 FLPanhandle Sep 2015 #35

Lemmings. El Supremo Sep 2015 #18

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #25

The "status" thing is not overexaggerated jmowreader Sep 2015 #27

Crowd crush is no joke alcibiades_mystery Sep 2015 #21

Fucking, idiotic, religious zealots rusty fender Sep 2015 #23

Omg, this is horrible wordpix Sep 2015 #32

Saudi health minister blaming pilgrims for "not following instructions" tawadi Sep 2015 #34

trusty elf

(7,394 posts)

1. Horrible

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 05:27 AM

Sep 2015

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)

2. May they all rest in peace

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 05:35 AM

Sep 2015

ellenrr

(3,864 posts)

3. hardly news... happens every year.

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 05:43 AM

Sep 2015

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,350 posts)

4. And this death count is nowhere near the record ...

Reply to ellenrr (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 06:41 AM

Sep 2015

Last edited Thu Sep 24, 2015, 11:24 AM - Edit history (1)

... but still, it's newsworthy.

If only to expose the continuing lack of crowd control at this event.

Edit to add: when I wrote the death count is nowhere near the record, the count was 310. It's going up.

ellenrr

(3,864 posts)

29. exactly, one year 1400 people died,

Reply to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 25, 2015, 06:30 AM

Sep 2015

This is not what Muhammad intended when he made the haj a requirement.
At that time there were a fraction of the number of people on earth.

he surely did not intend people to go to their death like lemmings.

fuckin' stupid.

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)

5. I watched a program about

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:20 AM

Sep 2015

the Hajj on public tv some years ago. It gave me the creeps. Too many people, EVERYWHERE. If I were a Muslim I'd have to get a dispensation or something. I could not stand being in a mob like that for any length of time.

secondwind

(16,903 posts)

7. I feel the same way !!

Reply to LiberalElite (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:37 AM

Sep 2015

Elmer S. E. Dump

(5,751 posts)

10. I don't even like going to concerts or sporting events - too many people!

Reply to LiberalElite (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 08:59 AM

Sep 2015

If I didn't know so much about human nature I probably wouldn't be as freaked out.

wordpix

(18,652 posts)

33. I'm the same

Reply to Elmer S. E. Dump (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 25, 2015, 10:56 AM

Sep 2015

although I might brave a big crowd to see Taylor Swift!

Elmer S. E. Dump

(5,751 posts)

36. I'll take a private concert in my living room. Maybe she'd let me harmonize.

Reply to wordpix (Reply #33)

Fri Sep 25, 2015, 11:17 AM

Sep 2015

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)

31. Don't EVER read about the Black Hole of Calcutta, then...

Reply to LiberalElite (Reply #5)

Fri Sep 25, 2015, 10:51 AM

Sep 2015

secondwind

(16,903 posts)

6. This happens every year.. I don't understand why they can't come up with a way to avoid this.

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:36 AM

Sep 2015

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)

8. Actually, this is the worst since 1990; 2006 was almost as bad, and they made changes

Reply to secondwind (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 07:46 AM

Sep 2015

July 2, 1990 : A stampede inside a pedestrian tunnel (Al-Ma'aisim tunnel) leading out from Mecca towards Mina and the Plains of Arafat led to the deaths of 1,426 pilgrims, many of them of Malaysian, Indonesian and Pakistani origin.[2][3]
...
January 12, 2006: A stampede during the stoning of the Devil on the last day of the Hajj in Mina killed at least 346 pilgrims and injured at least 289 more. The incident occurred shortly after 13:00 local time, when a busload of travellers arrived together at the eastern access ramps to the Jamarat Bridge. This caused pilgrims to trip, rapidly resulting in a lethal crush. An estimated two million people were performing the ritual at the time.
...
Following the 2006 incident, the Jamaraat Bridge and the pillars representing Satan were demolished and reconstructed. A wider, multi-level bridge was built, and massive columns replaced the pillars themselves. Now, each level of the bridge allows easier and safer access to the columns representing Satan. The picture to the right shows a view of one level post-construction. It was taken the year after the 2006 incident. In addition, the stoning ceremony must be carried out according to pre-determined schedules to prevent over-crowding and the attendant risks. The Jamarat basin has been expanded from its current circular shape into an oval to allow better access to the pillars. The new arrangements provide for separate access and departure routes.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj

hlthe2b

(102,287 posts)

9. Now reporting more than 700

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 08:53 AM

Sep 2015

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mecca-stampede-mina-haj_5603b317e4b0fde8b0d14e22

I am absolutely terrified of this type of crowd.

How unbelievably horrific

Stuart G

(38,428 posts)

11. k and r. nt

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:24 AM

Sep 2015

RussBLib

(9,019 posts)

12. reminds me of the Eloi in The Time Machine

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:44 AM

Sep 2015

frikkin' zombies

hunter

(38,317 posts)

13. Here's what it looked like in 1953:

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 10:47 AM

Sep 2015

Here it is now:

The "bridge" is the huge structure in the middle, the much enlarged pillars are inside it. The ramps are the pedestrian walkways to the "bridge."

The pillars are now 85 foot long walls:

Previously enthusiastic pilgrims would miss the pillars and their stones would hit people on the other side.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)

19. I'm dismayed to read this...You'd think the Saudis would be

Reply to hunter (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 12:49 PM

Sep 2015

world experts on crowd control by now, making these incidents a thing of the past...

Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #19)

Name removed Message auto-removed

ellenrr

(3,864 posts)

30. thanks for that pic. from 1953,

Reply to hunter (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 25, 2015, 06:33 AM

Sep 2015

humans think their so smart - that they can solve every problem.

this shows - there is no way on earth to have this number of people come together in one spot and not have tragedy.

give it up already!!

it is like stoning women bec. that is what was done centuries ago - stupid rituals continued with NO THOUGHT.

yeah, humans sure are "the most intelligent animal on earth".

olddots

(10,237 posts)

14. like can't they like do this on like Skype or something ?

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 10:55 AM

Sep 2015

This is sad maybe they could organize the mass hysteria .

Retrograde

(10,137 posts)

22. IMHO, Islam could use a pope-equivalent or a synod-like body

Reply to olddots (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 02:33 PM

Sep 2015

to help the religion scale to serve 1B+ people. If there were some central authority it could maybe rule that everybody doesn't have to be in Mecca at the same time: one can fulfill one's obligation any time of the year. Or one could visit an alternate shrine if getting to Mecca was a hardship.

Catholicism took a similar approach in the Middle Ages: going to the Holy Land was desirable, but nigh impossible for most people, so pilgrimages started to various other holy places in Europe: Rome, Canterbury, Santiago de Campostela, among others. That let more people perform religious devotions - and led to economic benefits for the new pilgrimage sites.

jmowreader

(50,559 posts)

26. Traveling to Mecca to perform the rituals outside of Hajj week is called Umrah

Reply to Retrograde (Reply #22)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 04:17 PM

Sep 2015

Umrah means "lesser pilgrimage." Unfortunately, anyone who performs Umrah has also got to perform Hajj.

You have some very good ideas: allow a Muslim to meet his Hajj obligation by performing Umrah, and allow the biggest Mosque in each nation that has Muslims to serve as a Hajj site. (Which, in the US, would be in Dearborn, Michigan.)

Response to jmowreader (Reply #26)

Name removed Message auto-removed

vkkv

(3,384 posts)

15. Brainwashed by fiction and superstition..

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 11:18 AM

Sep 2015

Religion is a dangerous thing. Best be done away with. Worship yourself and nature.

valerief

(53,235 posts)

16. So are the Saudis looking to stir up hunger for a war with "some African nations?" nt

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 12:01 PM

Sep 2015

snooper2

(30,151 posts)

17. Is this the dumbest mass event held every year or is there one more ignorant?

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 12:24 PM

Sep 2015

Running with the bulls isn't bright but that usually only claims a few idiots...

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)

20. +1000

Reply to snooper2 (Reply #17)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 01:22 PM

Sep 2015

Seriously. The stupidity of religious ritual never ceases to amaze me.

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)

35. +1

Reply to snooper2 (Reply #17)

Fri Sep 25, 2015, 11:07 AM

Sep 2015

El Supremo

(20,365 posts)

18. Lemmings.

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 12:28 PM

Sep 2015

They must want to commit suicide.

Response to El Supremo (Reply #18)

Name removed Message auto-removed

jmowreader

(50,559 posts)

27. The "status" thing is not overexaggerated

Reply to Name removed (Reply #25)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 04:26 PM

Sep 2015

A devout Muslim who completes Hajj adds the word "Haji" to his name - or at least he used to; not sure if they do it now that George W. Bush's invading hordes used it as an ethnic slur.

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)

21. Crowd crush is no joke

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 01:36 PM

Sep 2015

There's a stupid mobile phone network add that depicts a crowd crush in a playful, ha ha manner: "Here's the other guys' network." What the fuck, man.