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muriel_volestrangler

(101,363 posts)
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 11:57 AM Sep 2015

Nasa scientists find evidence of flowing water on Mars

Source: The Guardian

Liquid water runs down canyons and crater walls over the summer months on Mars, according to researchers who say the discovery raises the chances of being home to some form of life.

The trickles leave long, dark stains on the Martian terrain that can reach hundreds of metres downhill in the warmer months, before they dry up in the autumn as surface temperatures drop.

Images taken from the Mars orbit show cliffs, and the steep walls of valleys and craters, streaked with summertime flows that in the most active spots combine to form intricate fan-like patterns.
...
Researchers have now turned to another instrument on board the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter to analyse the chemistry of the mysterious RSL flows. Lujendra Ojha, of Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta, and his colleagues used a spectrometer on the MRO to look at infrared light reflected off steep rocky walls when the dark streaks had just begun to appear, and when they had grown to full length at the end of the Martian summer.



Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/sep/28/nasa-scientists-find-evidence-flowing-water-mars



Paper in Nature Geosciences:

Spectral evidence for hydrated salts in recurring slope lineae on Mars

Determining whether liquid water exists on the Martian surface is central to understanding the hydrologic cycle and potential for extant life on Mars. Recurring slope lineae, narrow streaks of low reflectance compared to the surrounding terrain, appear and grow incrementally in the downslope direction during warm seasons when temperatures reach about 250–300?K, a pattern consistent with the transient flow of a volatile species1, 2, 3. Brine flows (or seeps) have been proposed to explain the formation of recurring slope lineae1, 2, 3, yet no direct evidence for either liquid water or hydrated salts has been found4. Here we analyse spectral data from the Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars instrument onboard the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter from four different locations where recurring slope lineae are present. We find evidence for hydrated salts at all four locations in the seasons when recurring slope lineae are most extensive, which suggests that the source of hydration is recurring slope lineae activity. The hydrated salts most consistent with the spectral absorption features we detect are magnesium perchlorate, magnesium chlorate and sodium perchlorate. Our findings strongly support the hypothesis that recurring slope lineae form as a result of contemporary water activity on Mars.

http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ngeo2546.html
30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Nasa scientists find evidence of flowing water on Mars (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 OP
Carlyle Group, Koch Industries to spend $170m on rights to Martian water Newsjock Sep 2015 #1
Well at least if they find fossils we know that they would be Republicans LiberalArkie Sep 2015 #2
Could these be the "canals" that some have seen through telescopes? Lychee2 Sep 2015 #3
No, the canals were tricks of the eye, that would have had to be miles across muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #5
Exactly octoberman Sep 2015 #9
Welcome to DU Octoberman d_legendary1 Sep 2015 #25
K&R for science! Brickbat Sep 2015 #4
It's not flowing water - it's a hydrated salt brine solution that doesn't freeze at -70F. Baclava Sep 2015 #6
We don't say "the oceans aren't water" muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #7
Baclava, don't confuse the people. Bottom line, it contains H2O... Nitram Sep 2015 #8
The headline suggests bubbling forest streams with butterflies Baclava Sep 2015 #27
You have a very active imagination. Nitram Sep 2015 #29
Send a mission, get some cameras down into the collapsed lava tubes then... Baclava Sep 2015 #28
It's a solution of salts in water -- *really* concentrated ... eppur_se_muova Sep 2015 #10
250 to 300 degrees K is about -10 to +80 degrees F. eggplant Sep 2015 #11
Yet they cannot find evidence of intelligence with the GOP party LynneSin Sep 2015 #12
^ .... Laffy Kat Sep 2015 #19
Very cool. Thanks! I have a question for someone with more scientific education than myself... Freelancer Sep 2015 #13
The equipment required is to heavy Jeroen Sep 2015 #14
By the time we're thinking of ~living~ on Mars, kentauros Sep 2015 #23
My thinking is, that making machines on Mars will require mining raw materials Freelancer Sep 2015 #24
I haven't checked this, but people reckon 50-70km to get to Earth sea level pressure muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #15
Wow. Thanks very much! Freelancer Sep 2015 #21
Alley Oop in space.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #16
That's me! Except I have a wrench. -nt Freelancer Sep 2015 #22
THAT'S where our rain went. C Moon Sep 2015 #17
extreme close up tomm2thumbs Sep 2015 #18
Don't drink the water ... shireen Sep 2015 #20
... F4lconF16 Sep 2015 #30
Not sure how anyone can get mining equipment up there d_legendary1 Sep 2015 #26

Newsjock

(11,733 posts)
1. Carlyle Group, Koch Industries to spend $170m on rights to Martian water
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 12:01 PM
Sep 2015

Why did God put our water under their dirt?

Don't say it's not going to happen.

LiberalArkie

(15,728 posts)
2. Well at least if they find fossils we know that they would be Republicans
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 12:09 PM
Sep 2015

After all, they are the only ones that deny global warming and its probable they existed on mars but died out as global warming killed the planet.

 

Lychee2

(405 posts)
3. Could these be the "canals" that some have seen through telescopes?
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 12:24 PM
Sep 2015

Here are lineae on Jupiter's moon, Europa.



Thanks for an interesting post.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,363 posts)
5. No, the canals were tricks of the eye, that would have had to be miles across
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 12:29 PM
Sep 2015

These streaks are much smaller, that you'd have to go into orbit around the planet to make out.

 

octoberman

(2 posts)
9. Exactly
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 01:08 PM
Sep 2015

In one of the articles I've read on this story today (admitted space nerd here!), it was stated such streams are no more than 15 feet across.

d_legendary1

(2,586 posts)
25. Welcome to DU Octoberman
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:43 PM
Sep 2015

A couple of days early but right on time for DU! No October surprises please!

 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
6. It's not flowing water - it's a hydrated salt brine solution that doesn't freeze at -70F.
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 12:48 PM
Sep 2015

I could write better headlines

muriel_volestrangler

(101,363 posts)
7. We don't say "the oceans aren't water"
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 12:59 PM
Sep 2015

despite their well known salt content. The paper calls it 'water activity'. NASA has used

"NASA Confirms Evidence that Liquid Water Flows on Today's Mars"

I think the headline is fine.

Nitram

(22,890 posts)
8. Baclava, don't confuse the people. Bottom line, it contains H2O...
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 01:04 PM
Sep 2015

...and suggests the possibility of life.

 

Baclava

(12,047 posts)
28. Send a mission, get some cameras down into the collapsed lava tubes then...
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 06:43 PM
Sep 2015

Alien lifeforms can be sneaky!

What are we waiting for? We know the surface is sterile. Probe them!





We know where the life should be hiding

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
13. Very cool. Thanks! I have a question for someone with more scientific education than myself...
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 02:00 PM
Sep 2015

Have any of you ever seen a calculation of how deep a cave or tunnel would have to go on Mars in order for the atmospheric pressure, at Martian gravity, to be equivalent to that of a high mountainous area on Earth? I'm thinking that a better initial terraforming strategy would be to dig-in, rather than to build on the surface. The oxygen content would have to be increased down there artificially, of course, but at least people could walk around with less apparatus (apparati?).

Anyway, thanks.

Jeroen

(1,061 posts)
14. The equipment required is to heavy
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 02:11 PM
Sep 2015

Not saying that I am scientific educated, but to my understanding, weight is one of the most important aspects of space flight.
To bring a kilo into orbit is very costly. Besides that, you need a lot a spaceflights and have to assemble the machine in Mars.


From the web:

The cost depends on the rocket, and on the percent capacity of said rocket, but here's a few numbers for you, cost in U.S. dollars/kg to LEO (Wikipedia*). It should be noted that not all rocket prices are publicly available, in fact, most aren't.

Falcon 9 v 1.1- $4,109

DNEPR- $3,784

Ariane 5- $10,476

Delta IV- $13,072

Atlas V- $13,182

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
23. By the time we're thinking of ~living~ on Mars,
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 04:02 PM
Sep 2015

we'll be getting our building materials from the Moon and from captured asteroids. So, those figures pretty much go out the window

Freelancer

(2,107 posts)
24. My thinking is, that making machines on Mars will require mining raw materials
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 04:11 PM
Sep 2015

So... manufacturing mining machines on Mars, so you don't have to send them from Earth, requires you to initially spend a fortune and send mining equipment from Earth -- pump priming, I guess.

Ah, wouldn't phasers come in handy at times.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,363 posts)
15. I haven't checked this, but people reckon 50-70km to get to Earth sea level pressure
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 02:14 PM
Sep 2015
https://www.quora.com/Mars-At-what-altitude-depth-is-the-air-pressure-1-bar

A little less for high mountain altitude, but still deeper than practical for living.

d_legendary1

(2,586 posts)
26. Not sure how anyone can get mining equipment up there
Mon Sep 28, 2015, 05:46 PM
Sep 2015

to find out if there is fresh water there. Until someone invents the death ray we won't know for sure.

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