not stupid

Plus they likely have more time on their hands than most.

That may be a bit harsh, but they are generally in prison because they did something evil. Whether those actions mean they would continue to do things like that is another question. Maybe, or maybe not.

But it reminds me of the classic joke.

Guy had a flat tire outside a mental institution. Somehow in the process of changing the tire, he slipped and dropped all four nuts down a storm drain. He's feeling hopelessly stuck when a guy calls out from the mental institution. He says 'Just take one nut from each of the other tires and use it on the spare. That will allow you to get a few miles to a place where you can buy parts."

The guy is amazed. He asks "What are you doing in there if you can come up with ideas like that?" The guy replies. "Hey, I'm not stupid ...

just crazy."

Guilty, not stupid might have been a better phrase.

Last edited Fri Oct 9, 2015, 01:35 PM - Edit history (1)

There were, for example 1,431,000 violent crimes in the United States in 1999. There were also 2,100,000 burglaries and 1,147,000 motor vehicle thefts.

Probably breaking in to somebody's house when they are not there and stealing their stuff is a "non violent crime" but I still tend to think it is evil.

Also in 1999 1,701,100 arrests were made for 'serious crimes' - that's (in thousands) 11.7 murders, 21.4 forcible rapes, 95.1 robberies, 359.7 aggravated assaults, 214.4 burglaries, 880.8 thefts, 106.1 motor vehicle thefts (less than 10% of the number of vehicles stolen) 11.9 arson.

Presumably many of those people also end up in prisons.

Here's a "non violent crime" I know fairly well - perhaps it was committed by a drug user. I used to own a laundromat. One night somebody broke in to the machines. Their take - perhaps $30 in quarters, and a nice pipe wrench.

Sort of a petty crime, you might think. Well, except for the part about doing $2,500 worth of damage to my machines and closing the business.

Who knows but that maybe some of the a$$wipes who did that eventually ended up in prison for drug possession. I can hope anyway.

When you have no food, no money, bad role models, bad neighborhood schools, and perhaps you're physically or sexually abused as a kid, you are screwed up emotionally/mentally. You may start out stealing or selling drugs just b/c you're hungry, and if there are no easily accessible and effective prevention/intervention programs in your school or community, you "progress" from there.

Violent offenders are often those who were physically abused as children.

I am sorry about your laundromat break-in, but society needs to help children and families in need, and not wait until at-risk children become adults and then throw them in jail.

I love it when people spout based on generalizations and biases off without having a clue as to relevant facts.

BTW, Eastern CF is a Maximum security facility, obviously in New York. Have you ever been in a maximum security prison?

According to a NY Dept. of Corrections and Community Supervision (DOCCS) report published in 2013,

Sixty-four percent (64%) of the inmates under custody on January 1, 2013, were serving a sentence for a Violent Felony Offense (VFO). Another 13% of inmates were serving a sentence for a Drug crime. Forty-eight percent (48%) of female inmates were serving a sentence for a VFO compared to 65% for male inmates.

http://www.doccs.ny.gov/Research/Reports/2013/UnderCustody_Report_2013.pdf

The relevant section begins at p. 16.

The reality, which unfortunately doesn't jibe with your preconceived notions, is that most inmates in NY's state prisons are in prison because they belong there. What is a real shame is that some are extremely smart and talented, and had they applied their talents to legitimate pursuits, there is no telling what they could have accomplished and what kind of contributions they might have made to society.

You also read much into my responses that wasn't there, so save your "preconceived notions" comments. And just I have been to Prisons, both maximum and minimum security, Federal, State, and local. My company has a contracts to provide engineering support for renovations and upgrades.

One quality that liberals have is the belief that some criminals can be rehabilitated into productive citizens. A prison debate team goes a long way toward meeting that goal. Labeling someone convicted of a crime (when you don't know what the crime even is) as "evil" is certainly wrongheaded.

you do know that a huge proportion of the USA's prison population is there for non-violent crimes like drug charges exacerbated by mandatory minimum sentences?

the judgmentalism in your comment strikes me as not characteristic of most liberals, and i found it hurtful.

I do know that a huge amount of violent crimes happen in this country every year, and that presumably some of those people also end up in prison.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp


Chart Label Offense # of Inmates % of Inmates
a Banking and Insurance, Counterfeit, Embezzlement 666 0.3%
b Burglary, Larceny, Property Offenses 8,079 4.2%
c Continuing Criminal Enterprise 444 0.2%
d Courts or Corrections 818 0.4%
e Drug Offenses 93,821 48.4%
f Extortion, Fraud, Bribery 12,267 6.3%
g Homicide, Aggravated Assault, and Kidnapping Offenses 5,590 2.9%
h Immigration 17,725 9.1%
i Miscellaneous 1,586 0.8%
j National Security 76 0.0%
k Robbery 7,146 3.7%
l Sex Offenses 14,034 7.2%
m Weapons, Explosives, Arson 31,676 16.3%

According to 1999 stats (my default year because I have a book - the 2001 SAUS, and like the book rather than online searching) - 1,305,393 were in prison in the US and of that total 1,191,118 were in state prisons.

Also from 1999 of drug offenses 21,694 drug offenders were convicted and sentenced to prison - 1,577 for possession and 20,117 for trafficking and manufacturing.

You must have some highly placed sources for that pronouncement.

and sees what the topic the inmates were debating in which they "won" LOL

I wish there was a video of the match-up. I see no logic in turning anyone away from education.

of course

Was a cool story, and still is- until people see the topics

either side, and that's determined by the person in charge.

Quite an assignment learning that much about BOTH sides, isn't it? Yikes.

While I'm sure the "debate club" from college is better than most college kids, they're still part of the "Apple is better than Android" generation of know nothings.

Last edited Thu Oct 8, 2015, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1)

Most efficient way to effective shank your rival?

But we'll have at least some very eloquent and persuasive con men back on the street when these inmates are released.

Truthdiggers of the Week: The Bard Prison Initiative Debate Team and Its Supporters

Posted on Oct 10, 2015
By Alexander Reed Kelly


[font size=1]
The winning Eastern New York Correctional Facility debaters with their Bard Prison Initiative coach, left.
(David Register)
[/font]
Every week the Truthdig editorial staff selects a Truthdigger of the Week, a group or person worthy of recognition for speaking truth to power, breaking the story or blowing the whistle. It is not a lifetime achievement award. Rather, we’re looking for newsmakers whose actions in a given week are worth celebrating.


How long before Hollywood comes calling for the right to tell the underdog story of the New York prisoners who beat an award-winning team of Harvard undergrads in a competitive debate?

The drama reached its climax recently when, after four months of preparation, debaters from the Bard Prison Initiative at Eastern New York Correctional Facility convinced a panel of veteran judges from Rutgers, Hobart and Cornell that they had made a stronger argument than the Harvard team.

The inmates were tasked with defending an argument they disagreed with: that public schools should be allowed to deny enrollment to undocumented students. One of the judges told The Wall Street Journal that the Bard team made the case that schools serving undocumented children often underperform and that if these institutions were permitted to refuse enrollment, nonprofits and wealthier schools might step in and offer the excluded children better educations.

The Harvard team lost gracefully. A comment posted to members’ Facebook pages after their loss read: “There are few teams we are prouder of having lost a debate to than the phenomenally intelligent and articulate team we faced this weekend, and we are incredibly thankful to Bard and the Eastern New York Correctional Facility for the work they do and for organizing this event.”

More:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/truthdiggers_of_the_week_the_bard_prison_initiative_debate_team_20151011