I love how people try to put things in the simplest terms without knowing jackshit about what is going on. This goes the same for people who complain about our troops in Korea.

The Spratly Islands are a collection of 750 reefs, islets, atolls, cays and islands in the South China Sea close to Palawan Island (which is part of the Philippines). It is a disputed area that is claimed by the Philippines, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Brunei.

China has been aggressively building on reefs and atolls to turn them into military outposts. They also lay claim to ALL of the South China Sea including the area that is considered territory by neighboring countries under international treaties. There are two primary reasons they are doing this:

1) Natural resources may exist under the reefs, islets, atolls, cays, and islands, but it is not known for sure if they do and how much.

2) Control of the waterways in the South China Sea. Despite how many times I've been told that it won't happen, this is a REAL possibility. If China were to choke off trade in and out of Asia it could weaken neighboring countries. There is PLENTY of economic incentive for them to do so. It does not matter that this is against international law because China has veto power on the UN Security Council any resolution condemning them would be defeated. So yes, China could get away with it.

Then there is the environmental damage. China is dumping millions of tons of dirt and rock into the ocean killing the environment.

As someone who lives in the region and has visited nearby the Spratly Islands (I visited Palawan at the beginning of this year) the security and economies of the region are being put at risk.

I want to go to Palawan. I here Princesa is beautiful.

PM me if you can.

Well, all of the claimant nations seem to have reasonable claims to at least portions of the disputed Spratly Islands.

Here are some justifications for, as you put it, China's horsecrap claims:

"China claims to have discovered the islands in the Han dynasty in 2 BC. The islands were claimed to have been marked on maps compiled during the time of Eastern Han dynasty and Eastern Wu (one of the Three Kingdoms). Since the Yuan dynasty in the 12th century, several islands that may be the Spratlys have been labelled as Chinese territory,[66] followed by the Ming dynasty[67] and the Qing dynasty from the 13th to 19th Century.[68] In 1755,[68][69] archaeological surveys the remains of Chinese pottery and coins have been found in the islands and are cited as proof for the PRC claim, but they are more likely to have come from shipwrecks of passing Chinese junks.[70]

Chinese fishermen have fished around the islands since 200 BC.[36]

In the 19th century, Europeans found that Chinese fishermen from Hainan annually sojourned on the Spratly islands for part of the year, while in 1877 it was the British who launched the first modern legal claims to the Spratlys.[34][35]

When the Spratlys and Paracels were being surveyed by Germany in 1883, China issued protests against them. The 1887 Chinese-Vietnamese Boundary convention signed between France and China after the Sino-French War said that China was the owner of the Spratly and Paracel islands.[36] China sent naval forces on inspection tours in 1902 and 1907 and placed flags and markers on the islands. The Qing dynasty's successor state, the Republic of China, claimed the Spratly and Paracel islands under the jurisdiction of Hainan.[37]

The Spratlys and the Paracels were conquered by Japan in 1939. Japan administered the Spratlys via Taiwan's jurisdiction and the Paracels via Hainan's jurisdiction.[34] The Paracels and Spratlys were handed over to Republic of China control from Japan after the 1945 surrender of Japan,[38] since the Allied powers assigned the Republic of China to receive Japanese surrenders in that area.[37]

After WW2 ended, the Republic of China was the "most active claimaint". The Republic of China then garrisoned Itu Aba (Taiping) island in 1946 and posted Chinese flags and markers on it along with Woody island in the Paracels, France tried, but failed to make them leave Woody island.[34] The aim of the Republic of China was to block the French claims.[37][39] The Republic of China drew up the map showing the U shaped claim on the entire South China Sea, showing the Spratly and Paracels in Chinese territory, in 1947.[37]

Taiwan's garrison from 1946–1950 and 1956-now on Itu Aba represents an "effective occuption" of the Spratlys.[41][42]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute#China.2C_the_Republic_of_China.2C_and_the_People.27s_Republic_of_China

Interesting article about this complicated issue at that wikipedia link. Worth a read.

Even she says all those claims are lies and anyone that believes them is "stupid."

I love how some people want to forget about the large problems that the US is having and yet want to save the rest of the world by sacrificing more American lives for another country!

I live in the US and I'm a veteran...my war was Desert Storm...we need to take care of our own problems before we can help anyone else.

The nations in the area need to step up and come together, and with some US support show China that they will not allow this transgression to continue...but unless they are willing to create a united front, I see no reason why the US military needs to get any more involved then it already is!!!

Last edited Sun Nov 1, 2015, 09:22 AM - Edit history (1)

Interesting article that shows virtually all claimant nations have been building bases and airstrips in the South China Sea:

"AIRPOWER PROJECTION
Much attention has been paid to China’s new airstrip on Fiery Cross Reef. How does this runway compare to Malaysia’s on Swallow Reef, the Philippines’ on Thitu Island, Taiwan’s on Itu Aba, or Vietnam’s on Spratly Island? Below, explore infographics on each claimant’s airstrip size and the aerial operating range each enables. Watch an exclusive interview on China’s Fiery Cross runway with RAND Senior International Defense Analyst Timothy R. Heath. View satellite images of each Spratly airstrip and read more about the types of operations that each may enable."

http://amti.csis.org/airstrips-scs/

But, hey, let's have the media constantly demonize China because that's a sure fire way to increase US defense spending.

I don't trust any mainstream news outlet anymore regarding any Military related issue. It is all misleading and propagandized.

....while China is no where near them and yet claims them all right up to the shores of the Philippines.

If China does, and I did say if, have historical claims to at least some of the Spratly's, that map is a moot point.

It's the fact that virtually ALL the claimant nations have some valid basis to their claims that makes this a thorny issue.

As for being far from China, well, many countries, like the UK for instance, have far away islands as sovereign territory by right of discovery. China does put forth a similar claim by right of discovery for the Spratly Islands. How valid that is and whether it should be respected is the issue at hand.

"China claims to have discovered the islands in the Han dynasty in 2 BC. The islands were claimed to have been marked on maps compiled during the time of Eastern Han dynasty and Eastern Wu (one of the Three Kingdoms). Since the Yuan dynasty in the 12th century, several islands that may be the Spratlys have been labelled as Chinese territory,[66] followed by the Ming dynasty[67] and the Qing dynasty from the 13th to 19th Century.[68] In 1755,[68][69] archaeological surveys the remains of Chinese pottery and coins have been found in the islands and are cited as proof for the PRC claim, but they are more likely to have come from shipwrecks of passing Chinese junks.[70]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute#Basis_for_PRC.27s_and_ROC.27s_claims

that will just confuse people. They'd rather hear the made up stuff.

Keep howling, paper tiger. Your economy is failing, your grip on the country is failing and all you have left is to start border wars with all your neighbors.

No wonder most of East and SE Asia hates your asses. And I've been in Asia for ten years, including four in China.

Last edited Sun Nov 1, 2015, 08:59 AM - Edit history (3)

That's how the military-Industrial Complex works. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt..

"Trade Routes in Danger!"

(But of course its all hypothetical fear based "danger" -- China MIGHT cut off trade -- forget the fact that China is an export based economy and the last thing they would want to do is upset world trade)

"Claiming the entire Sea!"

(Well, yes, as a bargaining position, but most of the Spratly Islands isles and reefs are occupied by OTHER nations)

"We have always been at war with Eastasia"

(Apparently we are trying to paint China as an aggressive expansionist nation because they are occupying 7 or so reefs, yeah, so we have to shout loudly so people don't notice the actual facts.)

If they claim the whole sea, then they are also claiming the right to stop any ship anytime. Why is that such a hard thing to understand. It's not a bargaining position because China doesn't have to bargain for squat. They have been building on reefs and atolls at a greater and faster rate than the other countries.


The Philippines is one of the other countries that has an outpost on the Spratly Islands. Do you know what that outpost consists of? (I'll let you get back to me on that one). It certainly is not a man-made island that is being built on top of a reef.

The "Pivot to Asia" is a Grand Strategy aimed at
containing China by means of a military face-off.

The US militarists have been quite clear about this
for years.

For them, it is not enough to have wars raging in the
Middle East and South Asia. They're also working hard on
a military confrontation over the Ukraine.

What they are after is a military face-off with the
entire rest of the planet, so we can be "safe."

What could possibly go wrong?

Veterans For Peace

And yes, you can kiss your social safety net good-bye.

I'm sensing a lot of weird mirroring here--just be sure we don't give them the fuses for any missiles we sell them, and block the Frenchies' sales

illusion of security by way of massive, unwise civil engineering project, defeatable by the simplest of actions from an opponent.