I would like to be a fly on the wall for this debriefing. A successful joint op like this would seriously cement the Russian/Syrian alliance. The Turks have created a real mess.

The plane is said to be in Turkey for 30 seconds. But the Turks were looking to take them down.

I'm going to have to steal this quote. Happy Thanksgiving! Looks like cold, wet weather headed to Texas. Stay warm.

Hope you have a great Turkey Day! (war on Thanksgiving)

The "Wet" is what I am worried about with 2 dogs coming, to go along with my 2, all big dogs! Seeing all my kids and grandkids more than makes up for the inconvenience of wet dog smell, maybe.

Ankara had been warning Russia to avoid its airspace recently due to Russia's three other "oops... we're in Turkey" moments in the past four days. In regions where firefights, artillery shelling and rocket barrages are daily occurrence, it's pretty damn idiotic for Moscow to make these amateur mistakes when every nation in the area is already maintaining a hair-trigger.

No doubt, the allegation that "the Turks were looking to take them down" validates your biases, but there's no objective evidence which states as such.

Please, please, please... rational and critical thought is your friend. I promise!!! Try using them... it only hurts the ego for a moment.

> No doubt, the allegation that "the Turks were looking to take them down" validates
> your biases, but there's no objective evidence which states as such.

I haven't heard a single suggestion from either Turkey or anyone else in NATO that
the Russian jet was taken down by accident (or "mis-fire" or "collateral damage&quot .

There may be debate over the precise amount of time that the plane was at certain
precise locations, over the number & manner of any warnings and over the degree
of stupidity/carelessness masquerading as bravado on both sides.

There is no debate that the Turks *deliberately* shot the Russian plane down
in *an intentional act* of anti-aircraft warfare.

That means that your pompous & condescending bullshit:
> Please, please, please... rational and critical thought is your friend. I promise!!!
> Try using them... it only hurts the ego for a moment.
is as inaccurate, unwarranted & unwelcome as anything that Trump & co have come
out with on the subject.

When you fly into someone else's airspace without permission, they have the right to shoot at you.

Russia has done this to Turkey several times in the past, and Turkey used a diplomatic response each previous time. Since Russia kept doing it, those diplomatic complaints are obviously not enough.

So this time Turkey decided to shoot.

Just like Russia did when a 747 flew into their territory without permission (Technically, USSR at the time).

You might want to take the time to watch FM Lavrov's press conference. Your choice. Link at my post, below.

Lavrov is very good at subtext; in this case, regarding who gave Turkey "permission" to attack that jet. Veeery interesting! Heh heh

---

4:25 p.m.

A Russian airman who has survived the downing of his warplane says Turkish jets did not issue any warnings. Capt. Konstantin Murakhtin said Wednesday on Russian television that his plane was flying over Syrian territory and didn't violate Turkish airspace.

Muravkin was rescued early Wednesday by Russian and Syrian commando and was speaking in televised comments from the Russian Hemeimeem air base in Syria

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SYRIA_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-11-25-09-16-21

I just finished watching FM Lavrov's press conference. A lot of good information there, and today the interpreter did an exceptional job. At the very end, Mr. Lavrov stated that the pilot is safe and at the base. So you have it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, as well as BBC.

Here's the link:

https://www.rt.com/news/323404-lavrov-syria-s24-turkey/

It's always interesting to me, listening to Lavrov. He doesn't mince words; he says what he means with no bafflegab, and you can take it to the bank.

How odd that a news source literally funded by Russia's government exactly mirrors the story Russia's government tells.

RT did not "mirror" anything. No spokesperson from RT said anything at that press conference. RT simply provided a venue, e.g., a medium, for Mr. Lavrov to speak. And, yes, I'm sure Mr. Lavrov is paid well by the Kremlin. He is paid well to be a spokesperson and a negotiator for the Russian government. And your point is what?

Kerry is paid well to be a spokesperson and negotiator for the American government. Do you think Kerry takes any stance that isn/t approved by the Obama Administration? I hope not, because he's not there to MAKE foreign policy but to carry it out.

So, what did Mr. Lavrov say that you disagreed with?

Probably not. So why do you not at all skeptical about what Lavrov says?

Last edited Wed Nov 25, 2015, 03:20 PM - Edit history (1)

There just assholes who are upset that the Russians are blowing Update Erdogan's son oil side business. They are running oil tankers from Syria to Turkey.

all this should be in the news.

Allies due to the Cold War...still allies....uhm...I don't even think they know why.