Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
Thu Nov 26, 2015, 09:53 PM Nov 2015

Khodorkovsky says Putin is leading Russia towards stagnation, collapse

Source: Yahoo! News / Reuters

LONDON (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin will survive Western sanctions and lower oil prices but the Kremlin chief has brought such stagnation that Russia could eventually collapse, former tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky said on Thursday.

Russia's richest man, who was arrested in 2003 after falling foul of Putin and released in 2013, told Reuters that Putin could survive oil prices of $45 per barrel but that the longer he stayed in power the greater the risks for Russia.

He said Putin, who became Kremlin chief on the last day of 1999, had shunted Russia back to the stagnation which sapped the power of the Soviet Union in the 1970s under Leonid Brezhnev.

"Russia has plunged back into a situation similar to the end of the 1970s," Khodorkovsky told Reuters in London. "We are in the final stages of the Brezhnev stagnation period. Putin is younger so unfortunately this [stagnation] may last longer."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/khodorkovsky-says-russias-putin-west-want-rapprochement-175627340--finance.html

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Khodorkovsky says Putin is leading Russia towards stagnation, collapse (Original Post) Little Tich Nov 2015 OP
I doubt this DonCoquixote Nov 2015 #1
WTF??? Not embracing China politically is racist??? DetlefK Nov 2015 #4
Oh what you say is true DonCoquixote Nov 2015 #6
wisconsin already has citizen score...i signed the walker recall i am dead meat for many things here dembotoz Nov 2015 #10
Russia is the only great power which the US can share the world leveymg Nov 2015 #2
China is hardly "only concerned with itself" FLPanhandle Nov 2015 #7
The driving force behind China foreign policy is resource acquisition leveymg Nov 2015 #12
K&R Tarheel_Dem Nov 2015 #3
Khodorkovsky, wasn't he a thieving Oligarch himself? Why, yes, he was... uawchild Nov 2015 #5
Yes, but he is a neocon favorite and useful to them. newthinking Nov 2015 #11
sometimes this place looks more like Duma Underground uhnope Nov 2015 #13
STAY OUT OF SMALL PLANES and tabasco Nov 2015 #8
politics...the gop says similar about obama dembotoz Nov 2015 #9

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
1. I doubt this
Thu Nov 26, 2015, 09:57 PM
Nov 2015

Putin is benefiting from better timing; he is the closest to an anti American counter at a time when the world wants, and sorry to say needs one. China will fill that role, but for reasons that frankly are outright racist, the Europeans and South Americans will not embrace a China they way they would Putin. However, any power based on oil, ours, theirs the saudis, is going to erode really badly once the waters rise.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
4. WTF??? Not embracing China politically is racist???
Fri Nov 27, 2015, 07:12 AM
Nov 2015

Do you have any idea of the massive censorship, self-censorship, surveillance and oppression that is going on in China???

A simple experiment:
On a chinese internet-forum, lambast a famous chinese politician for being corrupt. See how long it takes until your post gets hidden.

Another simple experiment:
Get on the Tiananmen Square on June 4th. Hand out white flowers to passers-by for free and without comment. See how many minutes it takes until you get arrested.




Another bit: The PRC has just released its 13th 5-year-plan (the "13.5&quot . And they promoted it with a cheesy online-video with a catchy song. The video provided precisely ZERO information about what's actually in the plan (apart from assurances that really smart people worked on it for a really long time, so don't worry) and had a comic-relief character who was portrayed as dumb for keeping asking what the plan is actually about. (Lesson: Keep your mouth shut and nod, or other people will think you are stupid.)




Google "China 2020 citizen score".
China wants to introduce an orwellian surveillance-system where they keep track of every citizen and every citizen's political leanings and consumer-behaviour. And having a low patriotism score can lead to economic consequences.
And on top of that, only upstanding patriots with a high score will be allowed to be journalists.
And on top of THAT, being friends with someone who has a low score can ruin YOUR score by simply being registered as a friend of that person.

Sure, there might be questions whether this is technologically feasible, but there's another point:
The citizen score system would be the most convenient method for the chinese government (or one of the many corrupt cabals that have subverted the chinese government and fleece China) to bully, threaten and punish anybody as they deem fit. And there would ALWAYS be plausible deniability.
Someone's making trouble? Deduct points from his score.
Somebody refuses to play along? Ruin his score.
"Are you really going to believe that person? Have you seen this person's score? It's so low, he's got to be an immoral person!"

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
6. Oh what you say is true
Fri Nov 27, 2015, 11:08 AM
Nov 2015

BUT it has nothing to do with why, despite wanting Chinese investment, the Europeans will dislike China. Paris, Berlin and London are all very used to being the cultural center of the world, that is why 150 people can die in Paris and the world mourns, while thousands of Asians can die and the world goes on. Europe would have absolutely no problem with censorship, indeed, they like what China does more than they like what we do, because China manages to keep her fascists out of the public discourse. Is it wrong, yes, and both Europe and Asia will find that all this politeness they think maintains order will only make chaos when people's pressure blow up, making for yet another orgy of window smashing and deification of warlords.

dembotoz

(16,826 posts)
10. wisconsin already has citizen score...i signed the walker recall i am dead meat for many things here
Fri Nov 27, 2015, 01:05 PM
Nov 2015

the recall list is searchable and is used by the gop in state gov and from what i understand, some private corporations

the state of joe mc carthy continues the black list tradition

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
2. Russia is the only great power which the US can share the world
Thu Nov 26, 2015, 10:00 PM
Nov 2015

Europe is not a great power, it is many small nations. China is only concerned with itself. The Saudis/GCC are the mutual enemy of modernity.

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
7. China is hardly "only concerned with itself"
Fri Nov 27, 2015, 11:19 AM
Nov 2015

The Chinese have aggressively been channeling money into project all over the world in exchange for political and resource benefits.

They are quickly becoming a global force.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
12. The driving force behind China foreign policy is resource acquisition
Fri Nov 27, 2015, 03:16 PM
Nov 2015

And domination of trade on terms that benefit China. As I said, self-interest. I didn't say that is irrational. Quite the opposite, even though it threatens our hegemony and that makes us respond with increased hostility.

uawchild

(2,208 posts)
5. Khodorkovsky, wasn't he a thieving Oligarch himself? Why, yes, he was...
Fri Nov 27, 2015, 10:17 AM
Nov 2015

"He was arrested on 25 October 2003, to appear before investigators as a witness, but within hours of being taken into custody he was charged with fraud. The government under Vladimir Putin then froze shares of Yukos shortly thereafter on tax charges. The state took further actions against Yukos, leading to a collapse of the company's share price and the evaporation of much of Khodorkovsky's wealth. He was found guilty and sentenced to nine years in prison in May 2005. In December 2010 while he was still serving his sentence, Khodorkovsky and his business partner Platon Lebedev were further charged with and declared guilty of embezzlement and money laundering. Khodorkovsky's prison sentence was extended to 2014. After Hans-Dietrich Genscher lobbied for his release, President Vladimir Putin pardoned him, releasing him from jail on 20 December 2013.[3]

There was widespread concern internationally that the trials and sentencing were politically motivated.[4][5] The trial was criticized abroad for the lack of due process. Khodorkovsky lodged several applications with the European Court of Human Rights, seeking redress for alleged violations by Russia of his human rights. In response to his first application, which concerned events from 2003 to 2005, the court found that several violations were committed by the Russian authorities in their treatment of Khodorkovsky.[6] In particular, the court ruled that Khodorkovsky's arrest was "unlawful as it had been made with a purpose different from the one expressed".[7] Despite these findings, the court ultimately ruled that the trial was not politically motivated,[8][9][10] but rather "that the charges against him were grounded in 'reasonable suspicion'".[9] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky
===========

"the court (i.e. the European Court of Human Rights) ultimately ruled that the trial was not politically motivated,[8][9][10] but rather that the charges against him were grounded in 'reasonable suspicion'"

So, he was a thieving oligarch that bucked Putin and lost, and now he's having a big sad? Who cares? When you are a thieving Oligarch like Khodorkovsky you have to play ball with the powers that be -- that's true in Russia, and honestly, most other countries too. Khodorkovsky should have spent some of his ill-gotten wealth on "campaign contributions" and "independent political super pacs" to pay off politicians like the Koch Brothers do here in the US.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
11. Yes, but he is a neocon favorite and useful to them.
Fri Nov 27, 2015, 02:44 PM
Nov 2015

We frequently embrace (and enrich) discredited actors who have fled Russia to paint Russia (because our public are so insulated from accurate information and understanding of Russia and Russian events). People who are invested in doing everything to themselves insulate from the repercussions of their criminal activity.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Khodorkovsky says Putin i...