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Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:03 PM Dec 2015

IS oil smuggling to Turkey insignificant: US official

Source: Yahoo! News / Reuters

Washington (AFP) - The amount of oil smuggled into Turkey from areas of Syria controlled by the Islamic State is economically insignificant, the United States said Friday, after Moscow accused Ankara of profiting from the trade.

US officials said coalition air operations have seriously degraded the jihadists' oil infrastructure, but that in any case most of the crude pumped from its wells was absorbed inside Syria's war zone economy.

Russia and Turkey have in recent days traded allegations that they are involved in the illegal trade, further ratcheting up tensions after Turkish jets downed a Russian bomber on the Syrian border.

"The amount of oil being smuggled is extremely low and has decreased over time and is of no significance from a volume perspective -- both volume of oil and volume of revenue," said Amos Hochstein, US special envoy and coordinator for international energy affairs.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/oil-smuggling-turkey-insignificant-us-official-202010620.html

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
IS oil smuggling to Turkey insignificant: US official (Original Post) Little Tich Dec 2015 OP
That smells like bullshit. morningfog Dec 2015 #1
That smell don't lie. forest444 Dec 2015 #4
I did take a look at other sources before posting this. Little Tich Dec 2015 #10
We, the public, don't know either way. forest444 Dec 2015 #12
But the assumption that most of it goes out through Turkey is wrong muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #27
Where did you look? leveymg Dec 2015 #18
I used the Google... Little Tich Dec 2015 #21
WSJ and JPost echoing same official leveymg Dec 2015 #23
Go to r/Syriancivilwar AngryAmish Dec 2015 #29
Actually the story was already out before the Russians brought attention to it newthinking Dec 2015 #19
LOL, Read Bob Baers book "See No Evil". The US has turned a blind eye to oil smuggling into Turkey grahamhgreen Dec 2015 #2
Amazing isn't it? Yet still the narrative continues to work on some... newthinking Dec 2015 #20
self inflicted misinformation reddread Dec 2015 #31
Significant as compared to what? zeemike Dec 2015 #3
I think he's admitting USA knew oil has been smuggled into Turkey from ISIS lovuian Dec 2015 #5
They knew. 840high Dec 2015 #17
Thats why "they" been bombing the shit out of the trucks.... Historic NY Dec 2015 #26
WSJ: Russian Claims Against Turkey on Islamic State Oil Unfounded, Officials and Experts Say Little Tich Dec 2015 #6
The mid-range estimate earlier this year was about 1/4 of IS budget came from oil leveymg Dec 2015 #7
A quarter is still plenty daleo Dec 2015 #9
That is not econmically insignificant. morningfog Dec 2015 #11
A lot of vague statements daleo Dec 2015 #8
Any amount of Daesh oil elmac Dec 2015 #13
Lies. roamer65 Dec 2015 #14
LOL. Because Putin's dictatorship must be telling the truth! uhnope Dec 2015 #37
Quick, Look at this shiny object. Javaman Dec 2015 #15
Turkey should be removed from NATO for collaborating with the enemy. LS_Editor Dec 2015 #16
Any amount if significant. romanic Dec 2015 #22
Bingo leveymg Dec 2015 #24
If Russian fingrin Dec 2015 #25
The Russians have destroyed 1000 tanker trucks Turbineguy Dec 2015 #28
But the tanker trucks cost money daleo Dec 2015 #39
Spice will flow... JCMach1 Dec 2015 #30
Bullshit! Oneironaut Dec 2015 #32
Liars. I can't believe President Obama has so lost control of his foreign policy team. eom Purveyor Dec 2015 #33
LOL. uhnope Dec 2015 #35
Yes, and George Bluth is only guilty of Light Treason. nt DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2015 #34
Look at all the Putin lovers in this thread in total meltdown uhnope Dec 2015 #36
Whst's "economically insignificamt"? $50,000,000 a month? Bradical79 Dec 2015 #38
 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
1. That smells like bullshit.
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:04 PM
Dec 2015

If IS is the great world terror it is protease as, any amount is significant.

forest444

(5,902 posts)
4. That smell don't lie.
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:20 PM
Dec 2015

Here's how "insignificant" Turkish trafficking in ISIS oil is:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/isis-oil-exports-worth-500-million-a-year-conducted-through-turkey/5485920

And no one will do anything about it because Erdogan and his family (who are widely believed to be skimming off the top) would be upset if they did. Aww.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
10. I did take a look at other sources before posting this.
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:50 PM
Dec 2015

All serious news sources seem to classify the Russian allegations as complete BS.

forest444

(5,902 posts)
12. We, the public, don't know either way.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:14 AM
Dec 2015

But I do know that $500 million+ in oil smuggled out of Syria annually couldn't very plausibly have happened at all without a Turkish route.

And that, if so, such a massive smuggling route could not have been sustained for the past 15 months or so without Ankara's connivance - or at the very least its acquiescence (probably for the money).

We should always keep in mind that a NATO membership alone does not an ally make.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
27. But the assumption that most of it goes out through Turkey is wrong
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:49 AM
Dec 2015

It also gets traded inside Syria, to supply all the people there (because no-one is importing petroleum products to the country at the moment), and a lot goes into Iraq, a border which ISIS of course controls in places.

A Financial Times article from mid-October, before this became a matter of claim and counter-claim between Russia and Turkey:

http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/b8234932-719b-11e5-ad6d-f4ed76f0900a.html

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
18. Where did you look?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 03:31 AM
Dec 2015

Your statement on the face of it appears to contradict the JCS statement in February

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
21. I used the Google...
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 03:48 AM
Dec 2015

I Googled Turkey + oil and went to the News tab, and basically the first results were:

Wall Street Journal: Russian Claims Against Turkey on Islamic State Oil Unfounded, Officials and Experts Say
http://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-claims-against-turkey-on-islamic-state-oil-unfounded-officials-and-experts-say-1449255250

Business Insider Australia: Russia presented 'evidence' today of Turkey's oil ties to ISIS -- but it has a crucial flaw
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/russia-turkey-isis-oil-ties-2015-12?r=US&IR=T

Jerusalem Post: US official: Oil smuggled into Turkey not enough to be profitable
http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/US-official-Oil-smuggled-into-Turkey-not-enough-to-be-profitable-436361

Indian Express: Turkey’s ‘oil trade’ with Daesh: examining Russia’s allegations
http://indianexpress.com/article/explained/turkeys-oil-trade-with-daesh-examining-russias-allegations/

Daily Sabah: Germany one by one debunks Russian claims that Turkey trades Daesh oil
http://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/2015/12/04/germany-one-by-one-debunks-russian-claims-that-turkey-trades-daesh-oil

I discounted a result from RT, obviously, but all the other articles are pretty clear that the Russian allegations are baseless.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
23. WSJ and JPost echoing same official
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 04:02 AM
Dec 2015

From what I can gather, that estimate is based in an assumption that each tanker only carries 50 drums of oil Thus it is concluded it is not profitable transport by road. That baseline assumption is wildly inaccurate by a factor of at least 10.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
19. Actually the story was already out before the Russians brought attention to it
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 03:38 AM
Dec 2015

Seymore Hersh uncovered that Turkey has been extraordinarily "tolerant" of ISIS related trafficing across it's borders. Russia just managed to actually push the information out into the mainstream (and past the official narration).

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
2. LOL, Read Bob Baers book "See No Evil". The US has turned a blind eye to oil smuggling into Turkey
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:06 PM
Dec 2015

since the days of Saddam.

The trucks stretched 70 miles at the border and the US said they didn't even exist.

newthinking

(3,982 posts)
20. Amazing isn't it? Yet still the narrative continues to work on some...
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 03:41 AM
Dec 2015

Narrative based reporting (IE propaganda) is getting so prominent that I will not be surprised if people deny facts that occur right in the streets they live on.

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
31. self inflicted misinformation
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 11:18 AM
Dec 2015

people actually pay for that crap to be provided.
they sure know how to (not) look out for their own interests.
I remember when a good threat of a boycott would change things.
that word and freedom have lost their spots in our vocabulary and dialog.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
3. Significant as compared to what?
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:15 PM
Dec 2015

It is enough to buy a bunch of new Toyota trucks to mount weapons on and parade around in.

lovuian

(19,362 posts)
5. I think he's admitting USA knew oil has been smuggled into Turkey from ISIS
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:27 PM
Dec 2015

so Putin is correct

The US knew about it


"The amount of oil being smuggled is extremely low and has decreased over time and is of no significance from a volume perspective -- both volume of oil and volume of revenue," said Amos Hochstein, US special envoy and coordinator for international energy affairs.

I read somewhere that Iran had satellite pictures plus more proof of tanker convoys ....they're suppose to be showing the evidence to the world too.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
26. Thats why "they" been bombing the shit out of the trucks....
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:44 AM
Dec 2015

unimpeded. The tire tracks lead to Turkey, which unfortunately is a NATO country. Turkey will take all the oil it can get and this is going to get messy now that they decided to make an incursion into Iraq. They sat on the side lines and even shot across the border at those trying to flee in ISIS path before.


Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
6. WSJ: Russian Claims Against Turkey on Islamic State Oil Unfounded, Officials and Experts Say
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:35 PM
Dec 2015

Source: Wall Street Journal

Russia has ramped up accusations that Ankara is involved in illegal trade

ISTANBUL—Moscow has resurrected accusations by rivals of Turkey’s most powerful leaders that Ankara has covertly fueled the rise of Islamic State, deepening the diplomatic rift over last week’s shootdown of a Russian bomber.

Led by President Vladimir Putin, Russian leaders contend that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his family personally benefit from Islamic State oil smugglers who ferry their goods across the Turkey-Syria border.

But there is no evidence that Mr. Erdogan and his family are involved in the illegal oil trade, according to Turkish officials, oil industry analysts and independent experts. U.S. officials and Mr. Erdogan dismissed the claims as ridiculous.

While low-level smuggling from its strongholds remains one of Islamic State’s most important sources of funding, the Turkish government has clamped down on key supply routes.

Read More: http://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-claims-against-turkey-on-islamic-state-oil-unfounded-officials-and-experts-say-1449255250

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
7. The mid-range estimate earlier this year was about 1/4 of IS budget came from oil
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:37 PM
Dec 2015

sales. The majority, the US Joint Chiefs spokesman stated, was from donations coming from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states.

daleo

(21,317 posts)
8. A lot of vague statements
Fri Dec 4, 2015, 11:41 PM
Dec 2015

That can be interpreted a dozen different ways. It is what people do, when they know the plain facts of the matter will be damning.

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
13. Any amount of Daesh oil
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:25 AM
Dec 2015

is too much oil and should be stopped. Don't trust Turkey any more then I trust republicans.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
37. LOL. Because Putin's dictatorship must be telling the truth!
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 06:42 PM
Dec 2015

I mean the Russian gov has never lied and definitely not recently LOLOL

Javaman

(62,530 posts)
15. Quick, Look at this shiny object.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 01:14 AM
Dec 2015

so pretty, you will forget everything. Now repeat after me, "what oil? I don't see any oil!"

just another official trying to sell us bullshit by calling it chocolate.

LS_Editor

(893 posts)
16. Turkey should be removed from NATO for collaborating with the enemy.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 01:22 AM
Dec 2015

Before it gets us into a war to protect a useless ally.

romanic

(2,841 posts)
22. Any amount if significant.
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 03:54 AM
Dec 2015

I think the US is trying to protect Turkey like it's protecting Saudi Arabia, aka sleeping with the enemy.

Turbineguy

(37,337 posts)
28. The Russians have destroyed 1000 tanker trucks
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 07:58 AM
Dec 2015

that's about 30,000 cubic meters or 180,000 barrels. Not all that much and in monetary terms certainly less than the cost of the missions. The US has dropped about 20,000 bombs and missiles. Again, IS has the advantage. Our whole defense system seems predicated on producing profits at US taxpayer expense rather than military results.

 

uhnope

(6,419 posts)
36. Look at all the Putin lovers in this thread in total meltdown
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 06:40 PM
Dec 2015

Oh dear, you mean Putin's dictatorship was lying once again? Not possible, is it? LOL

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
38. Whst's "economically insignificamt"? $50,000,000 a month?
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 07:10 PM
Dec 2015

Not all of the sales are through smugglers in Turkey, but it was reported a couple months ago that most was.

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-making-50-million-a-month-from-oil-sales-2015-10

IS sells the crude to smugglers for discounted prices, sometimes $35 per barrel but as low as $10 a barrel in some cases, compared to just under $50 a barrel on international markets, four Iraqi intelligence officials told the AP in separate interviews. The smugglers in turn sell to middlemen in Turkey, they said. The oil used to be smuggled in fleets of giant tankers but, fearing airstrikes by the U.S.-led coalition, smaller tankers are being used now.

The Islamic State group is believed to be extracting about 30,000 barrels per day from Syria, smuggled to middlemen in neighboring Turkey. In Iraq, they produce around 10,000-20,000 barrels per day, mostly from two oilfields outside Mosul, Ibrahim Bahr al-Oloum, a member of Iraq's parliamentary energy committee and a former oil minister, told the AP. But he said much of the Iraqi production is not sold and instead sent to Syria to makeshift refineries the group has set up to produce fuel products.

In total, the group is believed to make $40-$50 million a month from sales, the Iraqi officials said. A report by the Islamic State's Diwan al-Rakaaez — its version of a Finance Ministry — seen by the AP in Baghdad shows that revenues from oil sales from Syria alone last April totaled $46.7 million. The IS "finance ministry" report put at 253 the number of oil wells under IS control in Syria, saying 161 of them were operational. Running the wells were 275 engineers and 1,107 workers, it said.
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