how secretive both were, she had worn a burqa forever so her brothers have never seen her face (the shooter sister) it is reasonable to believe that they didn't know the two would do this. WHAT THE HELL IS THE MATTER WITH HIM!? How big a body count is enough?

The slur prolly suits her. Seeing all the heat she has brought on the rest of the family and good Muslims.

Not to mention 14 dead. Calling her a female dog is pretty mild.

was clearly about Trump.

live with the shooters? With all those weapons, how was the mother unaware? If the mother was aware, how weren't other family members aware?
Purely conjecture at this point.

n/t

Informative.

even to her brothers. I know they can see them but this lady apparently was extreme in her practices.

and it is utterly ridiculous, that someone would not be allowed to see your face

He indeed has no shame. This could result in these relatives being targets for revenge. He is accusing them of knowing that they were planning an attack and not notifying authorities which is a felony.

who supposedly have never seen her face due to the burqa.

"secret lives or associations", with family members. Spouses can be unaware that their husband or wife is an alcoholic, or has a drug problem. It has been well documented that there are Serial killers and sexual predators whose family members are unaware

How many parents know if their kids take drugs?

Farook's family was just clueless, or is Brother-in-Law, Mother, his Mosque or the CAIR group....for that matter.

They just didn't report it because they didn't want to get accused of racially profiling.
The lessons from the Clockboy saga taught them well.

you see suspicious things going on with Middle Eastern men, but did you also see the Justice Department investigating the arrest of this kid, and you don't want any part of that crap. You are going to keep your mouth shut, you're going to go about your day and hope that you're wrong.
Who wants to risk losing everything because they're wrong about something like this?

And all of the asshats who want Trump to be President will cite this when they talk about him not being politically correct.

The mass murder this week did nothing to effectuate any form of gun control, but did go a long way towards the possibility of The Donald becoming our chief executive. Will ISIS stay quiet from now until the general election? I doubt it. Anything else they do will play into his hands.

is going after the people that perform these acts. Our side talks about is trying to seperate them from their tools.
A terrorist that can't get guns is going to spend a lot of time at the hardware store. He's still a threat. A dead or jailed terrorist is not a factor.
That's why you're right.

I mean, I saw many of the dumbest people I know posting that comparison on Facebook through another stupid meme, but the only actual article I saw showed some guy who worked in the neighborhood being "suspicious" of several "Middle eastern men" in the area.

More on the neighbor, if you don't mind!

A man who has been working in the area said he noticed a half-dozen Middle Eastern men in the area in recent weeks, but decided not to report anything since he did not wish to racially profile those people.

Moreover, he didn't even report seeing anything strange, just Middle Eastern men in the area - which is in and of itself not suspicious in the least bit. This is precisely the article I am referring to in my own post. It does not support your charge. Not even a little bit.

Your argument is silly here. I suspect you got it from that stupid Facebook meme, and then when you went looking for it you found this article, which says nothing of the kind.

Lesson: Don't use stupid, half-baked Facebook memes to make a point.

But Family Members of Farook and his mosque, hard as hell to believer they were/are clueless.

the kid who walked into a church and slaughtered people in cold blood, his family knew nothing. And that's believable.

But, a muslim couple who walked into a banquet hall and slaughtered people in cold blood, their family knew all about it.

Puuuuuuuuuuulease, people! Your bigotry is showing.

one is amassing a lot of weapons it seems doubtful none knew anything about it, whomever that might be!!!

I will NOT play this game with you!!!

Telling is what it is.

COMMENTS

Calling out another DUer as a bigot for unfounded reasons!

the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Leave it alone. You've already responded to him. Knock it off.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: it is a worthwhile discussion point and challenge.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

And, lately, it's been really bad on DU.

I've been staying away from here since the shooting because of it.

think it was bigotry. I deleted my comment. You were right!

for taking a close look at your words. Well done!

with them. No way she did not see.

Thank you Sherlock Trump
This guy is huge on platitudes and nil on details
He's perfect for the stupid of the electorate

Does President Trump interrogate them himself?
"Just give me 5 minutes alone with that prick. He'll be singing like a canary!"

Trump is a big fat idiot who doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does.

is for him to have on big Black Glasses, coboy boots and hats, and the twits from the past that are here with us today along with the new crew from the John Birchers and Young Americans for Freedom and everyone from the extreme right wing can relive the years of abject fear called Goldwater and Miller, and then Nixon and Reagan rolled all into one poohba from the right.

This twit said :

"I would go after a lot of people and find out whether or not they knew. I'd be able to find out. Cause I don't believe the sister,"


This sentence says everything about this egotistical pathological individual that lives in a state of constant paranoia of rhetoric , and is dangerous, he has made himself the sole benefactor of being judge and jury and prosecutor all in one ---------------------------what a chump



Honk-----------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016

would be long gone by the time the US recovered from a Trump reign, if ever ...

of much.

I would not be surprised if some of Trump's fanatical fans 'go after her' on his behalf.

It's the "radical Christian terrorist's" turn.

People expect him to say these things now and are let down if he doesn't. This crap actually helps prop him up.

A couple of more incidents like this, especially one involving some kind of recent refugee, whether legal or not, and the Republicans have a blank check for the 2016 elections. Or it will force Hillary to jump far to the right on those topics to counter it.

Well I have absolutely no respect for Trump, I do think his campaign is great. The reason I like Elizabeth Warren is because she's smart. But not just that she say what I've been thinking for years. So when someone very smart, And respected is in Washington, it looks like she's fighting for what I think is right, I'm going to throw my support behind her 100%.
And that's why trumps campaign is brilliant. The racists and the xenophobes have been saying their crap for years. They believe in it just as strongly as I believe in things like protection for the American consumer, free college, etc.
Now they see someone in the political sphere say exactly what they've been saying for years, and not afraid to make whoops. He is there champion. That's why his shot to the top of the polls because yes he's an asshole, but he's their asshole.

an asshole that isn't afraid to make waves. They think he's not going to buckle. He's not going to compromise. He's their warrior.
Who do we got that's like that?

and it took me years to finally grasp the concept of "All advertising is good advertising....even if it's bad".

Trump has done this his entire business life. Look how it's working. Trump should never be in this position, he's a master of getting folks talk about stuff...the good and the bad, just look around.

As much as I despise him, he's brilliant in advertising and getting face time. This is an act from Trump, he has used it his entire life....because it works.

Trump gets us pissed off on a daily basis and we speak out about it. Republicans like him not because of his message but instead because they see it pissing us off.

that an ordinary person would go on national TV and tell a lie like that.

But Trump would.

If your sibling was accused of being a Communist or a former Communist, you would be investigated too. And if you were investigated, you'd find yourself fired from your job and unemployable.

That's not really something that is only a feature of the 50s.

And I'm sure she was. This is something that families should not look away from just because it is inconvenient. And my personal opinion is that there is something dysfunctional about this family based on their inconsistent statements.

However, what Donald Trump is suggesting is just the first step in his and his follower's wet dream of rounding up anyone who is "other" and disappearing them from the US.

Of families of terrorists. Jailing them or shipping them back to the country of origin.

Trump has already sort of said he'd be for this.

and they failed to come forward, wouldn't they be an accessory to a crime?

This is not East Germany. You do not have to report your suspicions about your neighbors and family members to the authorities.

To be convicted of an accessory charge, the accused must generally be proved to have had actual knowledge that a crime was going to be, or had been, committed. Furthermore, there must be proof that the accessory knew that his or her action, or inaction, was helping the criminals commit the crime, or evade detection, or escape. A person who unknowingly houses a person who has just committed a crime, for instance, may not be charged with an accessory offense because they did not have knowledge of the crime.
.

But you are wildly misinterpreting that.

Relevant "inaction" for criminal liability is where there is a duty to act, such that the inaction is a part of the crime . For example, I work at the jewelry store and one night when closing the store, I don't lock the back door, so that my friend can enter later on in order to commit burglary. My inaction - failing to lock the door - was a deliberate inaction to facilitate a crime.

But if I sit down to lunch with my two friends who are discussing their plan to rob a bank, I can finish my lunch, get up and say, "Have fun at the bank" and go about my business.

There is no duty to report suspicions about others to the police.

If you believe that is true, kindly name the last person of which you are aware who was convicted for some sort of "failure to report" in which the the person did not have a duty to report (eg a security guard) or was otherwise "in on the plan".

Do you think if a prosecutor wanted to actually press charges, a jury would have a problem in convicting her for doing nothing and letting 14 people die?

When you say "her" are you talking about his sister? What are you basing your assertion that she knew in advance? That's what Donald Trump is saying without any evidence just because he is a bigoted blowhard. Maybe she should have suspected that there was something off about her brother but no one other than Trump and his minions are saying that she knew and did nothing.

I don't know if the guy's sister knew her brother was going to try to murder people. But if she did know, and she knew that he was building bombs in his garage and amassing weapons and 6000 rounds of ammo, decided to pledge himself to ISIS's cause, ect. she should have come forward. Did she live there? Or did she live elsewhere? If she lived there, then she HAD to know what was going on in that garage.

I love my brother. He's a good guy. But if I went to his apartment and he showed me bombs that he was going to use in a terrorist attack, I'd report him as soon as I was out of his ear shot. Maybe I could save his life, or the lives of others.

She said she saw him about once a month. I have no idea if she is telling the truth about that. I'm just reacting to Donald Trump who apparently would have no trouble putting people in jail just because he's suspicious or paranoid.

Last edited Sat Dec 5, 2015, 05:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Investigated, yes, just like with any other crime.

I agree. Like you I certainly have strong opinions about the moral responsibility involved, though. We're only human.

A "failure to report" claim wouldn't survive preliminary motions. I'm sure a lay person could interpret what you googled up all kinds of ways, but as an attorney, I can assure you it does not work that way. If you know your neighbor is growing marijuana, you don't go to jail for not calling the police. It simply does not work that way.

was. A number of the R presidential hopefuls would usher that era right back in.

Attacks her as a result of his dumb words...

I know for certain it's never one of us. Meaning liberals. When I was young in the 60's, all the violence was on the far left. Now it's either a Christian/anti-gov crazy or a Muslim crazy, or a workplace crazy. Too much crazy, IMHO.

all of the violence was against the far left.

....Bank of America near UCSB were anti war, ditto whoever it was who laid a bomb at UCSB that succeeded only in killing some poor janitor.

I do remember those days and years. It was a bad time all around.

probably more I can't remember...

ignores the massive violence against Blacks by white supremacist groups like the KKK. The Bombing in Birmingham that killed the three little girls immediately comes to mind.

feel the country is against them. It works so well.

Why should she know?

I'd hate to think of one of my brothers going off the deep end, and then having the media and politicians assume I "must have known something".

when going after ISIS?

are fiendishly disguised as children.

I entertain and so do they. But except for my one Brother and his wife and kids and my close friends, I wouldn't be able to guarantee any of them.

About 10 years ago, in my old neighborhood, one of my neighbors was carted off to jail for abusing his wife. They found a ton of guns and such in his basement. I sold my house and moved to another town before he was released. I said hello to the guy every day and thought he was a good neighbor! Yikes!!!

Last edited Sat Dec 5, 2015, 02:44 PM - Edit history (1)

*might be guilty* before his trial had ended (Manson, of course, snuck a copy of the "NIXON: MANSON GUILTY" headline into the court and showed it to the sequestered jurors, hoping for a mistrial).

In 2015, we have Presidential candidates openly stating that they "probably believe" (sic) an uncharged American citizen is guilty of terrorism and mass murder (with possible Federal charges, to boot!).

We are well and truly through the fucking looking glass.

It's times like these that I take comfort in the fact that our legal system does not work the way some people imagine it to.

Hitler.

And Saddam.

she did not know given the arsenal that was found in the home. No one amasses that many guns and that much ammunition never mind the pipe bombs without at least arousing another resident's suspicions that something sinister is afoot.

However, the sister is a different story. She didn't live with them, and who knows how much contact she had with them. Trump needs to keep his big trap shut and stop pontificating about topics he knows nothing about.

Could personally waterboard her!