There are many innocent people in America who are living in fear because of extremist attacks.

Donald Trump would not be as popular as he is now if it wasn't for the public's fear of extremist terrorist attacks.

and other factors instill fear in a population which makes them easier to control it's said. Certainly there's an atmosphere causing extremist attacks that's beyond belief. In the area I'm in there are many Islamic people, in the US and in west and growing tensions must be dealt with, somehow. There are also so many other troubling domestic issues. It's good Rep. Don Beyer (D-VA) and other officials met with the NoVA Mosque group last night.

Kristchun, Muzzlim, whatever.

We have all seen the whack jobs. Some of them even come a knockin' on our doors.

Unfortunately for the Muslims, there is government sponsored breeding of terrorists in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis encourage terrorism, and broadcast hate messages across the Muslim world on television. All with government money.

The head was not Bin Laden, it is the Royal Family.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html

"The West’s denial regarding Saudi Arabia is striking: It salutes the theocracy as its ally but pretends not to notice that it is the world’s chief ideological sponsor of Islamist culture. The younger generations of radicals in the so-called Arab world were not born jihadists. They were suckled in the bosom of Fatwa Valley, a kind of Islamist Vatican with a vast industry that produces theologians, religious laws, books, and aggressive editorial policies and media campaigns."

Now when are we going to send a drone into the government funded terrorist breeding ground in Saudi Arabia?

We are dealing with the symptoms, not the disease.

We should at least talk about it...... before more people die, and don't understand the reason.

It isn't Islam, it is state sponsored, Saudi funded extremist Islam, born, bred and broadcast by the people who want to kill us or rule us with their Sharia Law.

and 15 of the 19 911 terrorists were Saudi. 14 years later, we still can't or won't make the connection.

What's a few lives when there are billions to be made?

Rather than closing their places of worship as proposed by Trump and his minions, I hope that authorities are cultivating trusted relationships with the masses of our peaceful law abiding fellow Muslim citizens who oppose these radicals. This is also applicable to those in positions that can identify people with serious mental problems and their responsibility to assist in the protection of innocent citizens. It also extents to the responsibility of all citizens to be aware and come forward when there is probably cause for concern. I not suggesting a witch hunt just reasonable awareness.

Sometimes I believe that we just don't want to get involved. This is especially true in minority neighborhoods that have been racked with violence when people are actually afraid to come forward from fear of retribution. I reminds me of what took place when gangs extorted businesses for protection. It only ceased when they refused to cooperated and went after the gangs and took an active part in their prosecution.

Calling the police because your neighbor is getting a lot of packages? Or working in their garage at night? Or only late at night? And how late is too late? And how many packages is too many?

And how do we keep people with a grudge from making false accusations? Or must everyone be prepared to defend their innocent actions if they are accused? Or do we censor ourselves ahead of time: "Oh, mustn't do that, it might look suspicious to my neighbors…" We were shocked when Ari Fleisher said if you see something, say something, and rightly pointed out that it was reminiscent of Stasi Germany. I certainly hope that's not where our country is headed. Reasonable becomes unreasonable very quickly.

that it is not reasonable to be even somewhat suspicious of your neighbors who are extreme fundamentalist Muslims (as evidenced by the burqa she wore)

AND

Started receiving numerous packages, had groups of men guests arriving and leaving at odd times, and worked in the garage at odd hours?

Before you answer, remember that this person's suspicions were proven correct.

You're doing Monday morning quarterbacking on something that has already happened. I'm asking—asking—how do we know what to alert on, in the future? Where do you draw the line on what is "reasonable"?

Do I have to be careful not to work in my garage past a certain hour, because that seems "odd" to my neighbor? If my brother stops by with his friends and they leave at an hour that seems "odd" to my neighbor, do I have to worry about the police pounding on my door? Do I have to stop shopping online, or not buy too many things at once, because my neighbor will report me for getting "numerous" packages?

How do you decide what to turn in your neighbor for doing?

doesn't drive, and there are other factors that seem suspicious, I would let the police know of my suspicions. Is that "turning in your neighbor?" Not in my opinion. No, I'm getting help from someone who could look into my suspicions. Nothing more.

If one guy had listened to his gut instincts, 14 people might have been alive today.

"Hurt feelings" vs. possible deaths? It's a no brainer to me.

I don't know how to make it any plainer, that I am asking—asking!—a question. I don't have a hidden agenda regarding hurt feelings, I don't know where that came from. What are some other factors that would seem suspicious? I'm asking for real-world examples. I was hoping the poster I first responded to would chime in with what he thought would be 'cause for concern' or 'reasonable awareness' but he hasn't been back. If you're still interested in responding to me, I'm really curious about what would contribute to your gut instinct that your neighbor needs to be investigated for being a possible terrorist.

would have caused me to be suspicious, but I know my intense dislike for the burqa would be my first red flag.

Misogynist bull crap adhered to my the most fundamentalist extreme Muslims.

Have a nice evening.

many on DU said they wish the police had been alerted.

For something like 1,000 formal accusations of hate speech/crimes against Muslims, they prosecuted 45. It was approximately a 4.5% prosecution rate; I don't recall the conviction rate. (Or perhaps that was the "successful prosecution" rate.)

Few decried the looming specter of the Stasi. Or NKVD (somehow the Stasi are considered more evil and even on occasion rightwing, perhaps because of a kind of perseveration--the Germans were fascist in the '30s and '40s, so they must have continued their fascism in the '50s and '60s).

I figure that the same prosecution rate against Muslims suspected of terrorism by acquaintances, mosque leaders, or law enforcement would be a point of equal pride.

I believe that if you examine the cases where there was mass shooting there is evidence that they had acquaintances who were aware that they were a possible danger. I am not suggesting a witch hunt just that when someone is aware that there is a possibly serious situation that they should notify the proper authorities.

Just to cite on case; the Aurora, CO theater shooting. There was amble evidence that this person was seriously unstable and more stringent action could have prevented the loss of life. It is undeniably a fact that those who were professionals failed to take the proper action. Here was a case where the person was ordering massive amounts of ammo, guns, bullet prove gear, etc. and a simple investigation by authorities could have prevented massive loss of life and life long disabilities.

I, also, am not suggesting a witch hunt, but if you have concerns, find a way to express them to the authorities so a little investigating can be done.

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/falls-church/2015/12/04/congressman-other-pols-attend-mosque-service/76810422/

-DMV-AREA LEADERS ATTEND MOSQUE SERVICE AFTER THREAT- WUSA9, Dec. 4, 2015-

FALLS CHURCH, Va. (AP) - U.S. Rep. Don Beyer, D-Va., and other elected officials are expressing solidarity with the region's Muslim population following an appearance at a northern Virginia mosque.

Beyer was joined Friday by District of Columbia Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton, U.S. Rep. Betty McCollum, D-Minn., and state officials at prayer services at the Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Falls Church.

Last month, Fairfax County authorities charged a man with leaving a fake bomb at the mosque. Dar al-Hijrah, one of the region's largest mosques, has been in the spotlight since the Sept. 11 attacks. Its then-imam, the late Anwar al-Awlaki, later left the country and became a leader in al-Qaeda.

Beyer said he wanted to counter a wave of anti-Muslim rhetoric that has taken hold in the aftermath of recent terrorist attacks.

This mosque is Saudi funded, and has quite a history of leaders who go on to join Al-Qaeda or be convicted of supporting terrorism.

Lookee at the headline in a right wing rag:

Democrats to Attend Prayer Service at Radical Mosque
Former home of terror leader who mentored 9/11 hijackers
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/democrats-to-attend-prayer-service-at-radical-mosque/

Serious question.

Saudi Arabia spends a lot of money building mosques in foreign countries.

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org/media-center/isca-in-the-news/35-a-sufi-muslim-takes-on-wahhabism.html (from 2004)

A Sufi center is definitely not Wahhabi. There's one in DC: http://barakacenterdc.org/

It's like shouting into the wind. People aren't listening or don't want to hear the message. They just keep repeating the same old lie that moderate Muslims are silent.

simpler not to do any follow up, just stick to the same blame talking point.

are speaking out.

Sheesh, moderate Muslims are speaking out to friends, to families, to reporters, to whoever will listen. Some newspapers are even reporting it. If you haven't heard them ALL saying it, then maybe you just haven't been talking to them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/02/why-dont-more-moderate-muslims-denounce-extremism/

If you don't personally know anyone from A group, how can you complain that not enough of them aren't speaking out? Where will they get the megaphone? How will they communicate with you?

Though really they should do more than "speak out". They should condemn wahhabism, Saudi Arabia, and criticize aspects of the Quran that can be interpreted towards jihad. Saying "Islam is a religion of peace" just doesn't cut it anymore. PROVE that it's a religion of peace by looking within and get the cancer known as wahhabism and anything else out of it before saying as such!

Seems more an unsupported allegation on your part than it does an actual premise.

that the Muslim community needs to be more involved.

Of course, as an atheist, I don't know why anyone is part of any religion.

How about instead of apologizing for your violent misogynistic religion, just use your brain and leave it all behind?

And in Muslim communities in the US I doubt you would be killed for leaving the faith but I imagine there is intense social pressure not to do so.

reason why that religion as interpreted in some areas of the world is so fucked up.

They're not fundamentalists. They buy Christmas trees (?!!), adore their pet dogs, wear mini-skirts and have live-in romantic partners. There's a wide spectrum of belief among Muslims as well as Christians. They subscribe to aspects of Islam, the parts they identify with.

I travel to Turkey quite frequently for business and have always been impressed by the warmth and kindness of people in Istanbul.

As you said, they have already rejected the parts of Islam they don't agree with.

Why not reject the entire mess is my point.

Or reject all of Judaism because of the bits about "we're the chosen people" and everyone else is not.

Reject Islam, Christianity, Judaism because it's mostly loony toon bits. If people are smart enough to reject the most egregious bits, then they are smart enough to step back and reject it all.

eject Islam, Christianity, Judaism because it's mostly loony toon bits..."

And national borders, too? That they are just as imaginary as religion, are the cause of many violent conflicts throughout human history, and consistently divide us seems as good as reason to "reject" them as well.

Loony tunes, indeed... though I realize we often draw a distinction without a relevant difference to better enable our own biases.

There has been too much misery created in the name of each one of those religions.

The vast majority of Catholics in this country don't give a damn about what the bishops have to say especially in regard to sexual practices. There are the fundamentalists who are just plain screwed up, but they are in the minority.

Last edited Sun Dec 6, 2015, 09:06 AM - Edit history (1)

We shouldn't lump all Muslims with ISIS.

They preach hatred of non-Muslims.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/17/us-france-shooting-saudi-militants-idUSKCN0T61JU20151117

Wahhabism, the kingdom's official ultra-conservative Sunni Muslim school, regards Shi'ism as heretical, lauds the concept of jihad and urges hatred of infidels. Its clerics run the Saudi justice system and have funds to spread their influence abroad.

"Muslims should be fair to non-Muslims. They can do business with them and should not attack them. But that does not mean they should not hate them and avoid them," a senior Saudi cleric said in a background discussion with Reuters last year.

More than a quarter of the mosques in the US are Saudi-funded. I refuse to pretend they are preaching a 'religion of peace' within their walls.

It was just posted on another DU thread. People on a Dutch street asked to read horrifying passages from the Koran. They of course condemn it. Then it's revealed they were actually reading a Christian Bible with a fake cover.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7419822

To go out and terrorize other innocent people?