And that is most booths at gun shows are required by federal law to perform background checks even at gun shows.

Strawman sales and used gun sales.

I've been to hundreds of firearm shows around the country and very rarely did I see anything like what you're claiming.
How many firearm shows have you actually been to?

Gun Law Loopholes Let Buyers Skirt Background Checks http://nyti.ms/10UgyZa

NYT left a lot of that video out and tailored it to fit their agenda, much like that asshole O'Keefe did with Planned Parenthood.

So, I'll ask again, how many firearm shows have you actually attended?

That whole story was bullshit, and no law was broken because they were qualified to actually buy a firearm.
Matter of fact, it was Bloomberg's stooges who pulled that shit and Bloomberg almost got himself arrested for pulling that stunt.

but they sold the guns to them anyway.

BTW, I spent over 40 years in the US Army, I think I know a little bit about weapons, including the M-16, which uses the 5.56 round, which is the same power as a .223 round, they're both medium powered bullets, not particularly powerful compared to a standard hunting round.

Bloomberg attempted to do a gotcha in other states, the ATF, state and local authorities wanted him charged for attempting to do straw purchases.

that is the point....

the rest is just your StrawMAN...

please answer the question...

You gunnerz are going to have to give on something.....closing the Gun Show loophole is a nice first step...

but FFL dealers are required by federal law to perform bcg's on all firearm transactions.

In 2009 the U.S. Government Accountability Office published a report citing that many firearms trafficked to Mexico may be purchased through these types of private transactions, by individuals who may want to avoid background checks and records of their firearms purchases.[42][nb 3] Proposals put forth by United States Attorneys, which were never enacted, include:[32]:17

Allowing only FFL holders to sell guns at gun shows, so a background check and a firearms transaction record accompany every transaction

Strengthening the definition of "engaged in the business" by defining the terms with more precision, narrowing the exception for "hobbyists," and lowering the intent requirement

Limiting the number of individual private sales to a specified number per year
Requiring persons who sell guns in the secondary market to comply with the record-keeping requirements applicable to Federal Firearms License holders

Requiring all transfers in the secondary market to go through a Federal Firearms License holder

Establishing procedures for the orderly liquidation of inventory belonging to FFL holders who surrender their license
Requiring registration of non-licensed persons who sell guns

Increasing the punishment for transferring a firearm without a background check, as required by the Brady Act

Requiring gun show promoters to be licensed, maintaining an inventory of all the firearms that are sold by FFL holders and non-licensed sellers at gun shows

Requiring one or more ATF agents be present at every gun show

Insulating unlicensed vendors from criminal liability if they agree to have purchasers complete a firearms transaction form

I would have no problems with any of those proposals, those are very reasonable.

It most assuredly DOES happen.

I said those particular video's were doctored, not that it never happens.

Good Fracking Grief! The premise was VALID!

gunnerz do defend their pea shooters like they were a Presidential nominee who is losing badly!

you accused me of denying that firearm sales happen without bgc's, which is a fucking lie, I did no such thing.

the premise is true....period...

The gun show loophole NEEDS to be closed.


Furthermore:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/daily-show-good-guy-with-gun-debunk

I have always said that ALL firearms transactions need to go through an FFL dealer for a bcg, my position on this has been very consistent.

I go to gun shows a lot and I'd say only about half the tables, are FFL holders. The most of the rest are people selling from their own collections or guys who buy and sell quite a bit but are not FFL holders.

That said, closing the gun show loophole will do very little to reduce crime.

what options are you gunners offering besides...

MOAR GUNZ???

Much broader regulation would be far more effective.

That was your point, right?

Have completed federal background checks on all of my weapons to include the ones purchased over the internet. It tends to be a 10th amendment issue as it is an intrastate transaction.

there is usually an exemption for transfers within families or inherited weapons for instance.

The problem is they don't make the background check system available to the public. It would be up to the buyer/seller to arrange a transfer through a licensed dealer (if you can find one in your area willing to do transfers, many don't because they want you to buy their firearms in their store). The dealer is free to set the price of that transfer at whatever they want, usually between $20-100 per firearm or form.

Rifles and Shotguns, in Pennsylvania, can be sold by anyone to anyone, provided neither party is in the business of selling firearms. On the other hand Pistols MUST be sold through a Dealer or the County Sheriff's office.

Such an option, selling through the county Sheriff's office has to be an option. I do not see to many such sales going through urban county Sheriff's offices, but I do see them going through Rural County Sheriff's offices. Counties, East of the Rockies, were designed to be able to walk to and from the county seat in a day. Thus in rural areas it is a workable concept. In Urban Area, most people will have access to a gun dealer who will do the transfers, but the option of going to the county seat to transfer a pistol should be an option.

Many other states also require sales of Pistols to be done along with a background check.

Please note, you have three times the chance of being killed by knife (used in 13% of all Homicides) than being killed with EITHER a Shotgun OR a Rifle (total homicides for both is 4.1 %, 2% for Rifles, 2.1% for Shotguns). You have a greater chance by being killed by someone hitting you with his leg or arm (5.5% of all Murders) then being killed with EITHER a Rifle or Shotgun. You have a greater chance of being hit by a club (Blunt Instruments kill 3.1% of all homicides) then being killed by a Rifle or a shotgun (In this case the combination of Rifle AND Shotguns homicides are MORE then for homicides done with a blunt instrument. The homicides do to Blunt Instruments exceeds homicides committed with a rifle. Blunt Instruments homicides also exceed Homicides done with a shotgun, but homicides do to Shotguns AND Rifles exceed Homicides done with a "Blunt Instrument&quot .

Given Rifles and Shotguns are used in less then 5% of all murders AND knives, "Blunt Instruments" and "Personal Weapons" i.e hands, fists and legs, all exceed the TOTAL of murders done by Rifles AND Shotguns should we look into regulations of these other homicidal weapons first?

63% of ALL murders are done with Pistols or what the FBI call "Firearm Unknown or unstated", thus the concern and regulations on Pistols. It goes over 70% if you assume the 820 Homicides were NO method of the homicide were mentioned were also done with a pistol.

In 2014 we had 11,961 Homicides (including Suicides and justifiable Homicides).

Of those 8,124 were done by Firearms (68% of all Homicides).

Pistols were involved in 5,562 of those Homicides (46% of all Homicides)

Another 2052 Homicides were done by "Firearm Unknown or Unstated" this means the Police Department making the report to the FBI did not name the type of firearm used, just reported a firearm was involved. When such cases are investigated the weapon almost always turn out to be a pistol. Many of these are Suicides so the Police have no reason to report anything more then someone shot him or herself.

Pistols and Unknown Firearm comes to 63% of all Homicides.

Rifles were used 248 times (2% of all Homicides)

Shotguns were used 262 Times (2.1% of all Homicides)

Knives or other cutting instrument were used 1,567 Times (13% of all homicides)

Blunt Instruments were used 435 Times (3.6% of all Homicides).

Personal Weapons, hands, fist, legs etc were used 658 times (5.5% of all Homicides).

7 People were poisoned,

2 people were thrown out of a window or other height

6 died in Explosions

71 died in a fire (Most are accidental deaths but still a Homicides according to the FBI statistics)

62 were killed by Narocates

14 were drowned

89 were Homicides by Strangulation (In countries with strict Gun controls this is the most common method of Suicide, in countries were firearms are obtainable, firearms replace hangings as the preferred means of Suicide).

96 by Asphyxiation (Many of these are Strangulation cases but the local police use the term Asphyxiation instead of Strangulation).

and 830 were homicides by the method of death were not stated (6.9%), again when investigated these tend to be Homicides by pistol.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_11_murder_circumstances_by_weapon_2014.xls

Side Note: We have to have a better method of getting this data. Right now all we have is what local Police Departments report to the FBI. Murders tend to be the most accurate of these Statistics for local police department have a dead body they have to deal with. Once you get away from murders, the accuracy of the FBI crime statistics are questionable at best. I like the proposal that all hospitals and Coroners have to report cause of death of anyone who died of an unnatural cause AND they report if someone died by being killed and how. I suspect it will be more accurate than the present system of having local police department report such crimes to the FBI.

It already would be illegal for someone to purchase a firearm online and have a dealer ship it to them unless they have some type of FFL even with a background check.

The online dealer has to ship the firearm to another FFL holder, usually in the buyers local area. The buyer then picks it up from the local FFL dealer and a background check is required. This is current federal law.

The people in government that put out these talking points should already know that, unless they think it will be an easy thing to pass or get approved because that's what the law already is.

The idiot reporters should also know at least the basics of what they write about.

Who do not do background checks.

Maybe some of you need to be less defensive to statements that include some truth, but maybe don't cover all bases.

Is what they intended, they would say that. No different than newspaper ads. Most people do not limit the internet to websites within a certain state. It is a clear attempt to deceive just like the intentional misuse of the terms assault rifles and automatic weapons. It is definitely on purpose.

That Internet sales other than that very small amount require shipping to an FFL and required federal background check.

actually believe people without an FFL license can order guns off an internet site and have them shipped directly to them with no background check which is not the case at all.

Most mainstream classifieds/auction sites like Ebay and Craigslist don't allow firearms sales at all. Almost all of the sales on places like Gunbroker go through licensed dealers and background checks are required.

They are vague on the internet sales talking point to either mislead or they are uninformed on the subject. Senator Feinstein is a good example, she probably thinks people still mail in order forms to have guns delivered to their houses from the Sears catalog (made illegal by the GCA of 1968).

Actual facts.

And why are you insulting me?

I have read of people buying guns through internet ads. I don't know where they find them, but they are private sales with no background check required. Maybe they are illegal. Maybe their are few. I don't know, as I'm not in the gun business.

And right now background checks don't seem to stop enough problems, so we need more than that. We need more stringent rules to say who can be allowed to buy a gun. Much more stringent. And we need to eliminate unnecessary types of weapons that are too deadly in the hands of the public.

I want ALL gun sales to require background checks, regardless of seller's status, and I want them all to require registration that involved a rigid set of rule and training and testing. I don't want guns to be handed down in families unless the recipients can pass background checks and registration requirements.

We are all not idiots nor are we all emotional reactionaries, but an awful lot of gun enthusiasts are emotionally defensive about their deadly "toys", and rude to anyone they feel threatened by. And I don't give a flying fuck if someone takes your guns away because you really don't need them, and you feel slighted. The 2nd amendment is a dead amendment as far as I'm concerned. It should have been updated or eliminated long ago.

I expressed my opinion after a gun humper got nasty with me.

See, it works both ways.

What does gun fuckery have to do with promoting liberal political and social change, as per DU's purpose?

And the president of the United States believe in the 2nd amendment and an individual RKBA. Glad you are not in charge.

Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Jordan, and I have seen
Things are not what they seem.

What do you get for pretending the danger's not real.
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
What a surprise!
A look of terminal shock in your eyes.
Now things are really what they seem.
No, this is no bad dream.

The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
He makes me down to lie
Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by.
With bright knives He releaseth my soul.
He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places.
He converteth me to lamb cutlets,
For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger.
When cometh the day we lowly ones,
Through quiet reflection, and great dedication
Master the art of karate,
Lo, we shall rise up,
And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water.

Bleating and babbling I fell on his neck with a scream.
Wave upon wave of demented avengers
March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.

Have you heard the news?
The dogs are dead!
You better stay home
And do as you're told.
Get out of the road if you want to grow old.

It was intended to provide well-regulated citizen militias for each state as there was then no standing army or Natl Guard. (which evolved from the militias)

until then it is the law of the land.

to adapt it to modern times.

the trend over the past 50 years is to celebrate and reinforce civil rights - let's take the ambiguity out of the 2A to cement its place in the Bill of Rights.

with the guns stored in armories like in those days. Citizens should not be allowed to have any type of weapons of war like assault rifles or high capacity mags.

i enjoy my rifles. I feel no need to give up a sport I have enjoyed for decades to placate your irrational fears.

like in Switzerland. And they would have to have militia drills once a month. A gun of any type in the house is 100 times more likely to kill a family member than intruder.

my guns are perfectly safe at home.

and all their many accessories. Along with the rest of their arsenal. Its like a death cult type of thing.

those are semi auto rifles, they operate the same exact way as my decades old .22 semi auto rifle, one pull of the trigger, one round downrange, whereas an assault rifle is a military select fire rifle, full auto or 3 round burst.
No military in the world uses a semi auto rifle as their main battle rifle, every military in the world uses select fire rifles.

the shooters in San Bernadino did that. The only purpose of AR-15s is to kill humans at a rapid rate.

any AR-15 manufactured after 1986 is not able to accept any part of an M-16 that would make it full auto, and anyone caught doing so will pay a hefty fine and quite possibly spend 10 years in Club Fed.

Also, an attempt was made to modify one of the rifles but it failed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/gun-used-san-bernardino-shooting-was-modified-fire-automatic-n473991

Its all over the net. And the AR-15 fires bullets with three times the power of regular guns. Armor piercing bullets. You shooting 10 ft tall squirrels mate?

you a trip to a federal correctional facility of their choice.

They're not bulletproof vests, they're bullet resistance vests and just about ANY standard rifle round will penetrate one of those vests.

What part of armor piercing bullets are illegal for civilian use did you not understand?

instead of wounding people, kills people.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/san-bernardino-shooters-assault-rifles-california_5661f892e4b079b2818ea0ac

The ATF told Reuters that the .223-caliber rifles had the power to penetrate ballistic vests and walls.

I heard an ATF agent on CNN say they used bullets with 3 times the power of regular bullets.

Enough of the gunhumper tech talk weeds............ lets get to the bottom line.


More Than Half of Mass Shooters Used Assault Weapons and High-Capacity Magazines
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/02/assault-weapons-high-capacity-magazines-mass-shootings-feinstein

Was talking about. Bullet resistant vests are only rated against pistol rounds until you get to the highest levels. Any rifle round will penetrate. The .223 or 5.56 is so underpowered it is illegal to use for hunting deer in several states. It is a great caliber to hunt small game and varmints. Please read and get some facts other than from one source that has a agenda and is just plain wrong.

So what makes you think gun control will stop them?

Somehow the NRA got legislation passed classifying the AR-15 as a regular rifle so not subject to the Assault Rifle ban yrs back.
Not surprising it is the most used weapon used in mass shootings in the US. It is also classified as most as an "assault rifle" and one of the best at that! Lightweight, ez to use, rapid fire up to 100 magazines, etc etc.

But the fact that you've been duped by so many myths demonstrates that you don't actually deserve a seat at the debate table.

WHy is the AR-15 the most used weapon for mass shootings in the US. Because its superior to all other assault rifles. In weight, ease of use, accuracy, etc etc

TOP 10 ASSAULT RIFLES
http://www.thetoptens.com/best-assault-rifles/

handing true assault rifles while in uniform and building several AR-15 and AR-10 pattern semi-automatic civilian rifles after I retired. What is your experience in weapons, Google, lol?

Light, easy to use, accurate, 100 round mags, rapid fire. PERFECT for the mass shooting of people.


Or do u think its a coincidence its used in almost all large mass shootings?

It wasn't invented by the US Army, it was designed by Eugene Stoner and the AR-15 was never an assault rifle, the M-16 was, as your link proves.

but none of the models sold to civilians is as the are by federal law only able to fire in semi-automatic fire mode. The same as this weapon.

I carried the M-16 in the combat areas I was deployed to. No army uses 100 round magazines as the tend to fail to feed or jam like the Colorado shooters did. The Original Stoner developed AR-15 in the late 50's was designed for 20 rounds as was the original M-16. This was later enlarged to the military standard of 30 rounds.

Here is a nice video for you to learn about firearm operation.

plain ignorance sometimes.

I am sorry but please learn some basic facts. And what the hell does this even mean?

1) Her display of ignorance (100 round magazines?!)

2) Her (inadvertent) admission that "high cap magazines" are useful for target shooters as well as murderers. (Ooooops. What happened to "the only purpose is to kill" "argument"?)

In what universe is a muzzle energy of 1,303 ft·lbf (5.56-SS109) "three times the power" of 2,913 ft·lbf (30-06)?

What he is talking about

The 223/5.56 isn't known as the poodle shooter because of it's awesome firepower.

A .308 deer rifle produces 3000 foot-pounds of energy, while a 5.56mm only does 1200 foot-pounds. The difference is that an AR-15 can accept a higher-capacity magazine than most other rifles.

It's why a lot of states still don't allow AR's for deer hunting; the bullet is marginal for big game beyond 100 yards.

Your statement only rings true if you're comparing it to a 9mm round, but that's not really applicable since it's a handgun round.

And it can hold high capacity magazines for rapid fire... unlike single shot rifles. That, and its shape, is why its classified as an assault rifle. And preferred and used by most mass shooters.

It is not classified as an assault rifle. It is a standard semi-automatic rifle that cosmetically resembles an assault rifle. Function differs between the two and that is what defines an assault rifle. Bullet shape and size makes no difference. The round for the 5.56 or .223 is in the middle and not overly powerful like a 7.62 or .308 which are more geared to larger animals.

It has 3 times the penetrating power of handguns for quicker death of humans (not thick hided animals)

and it rapidly fires as many as 100 bullets in a row without reloading.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Top Ten Assault Rifles: http://www.military-today.com/firearms/top_10_assault_rifles.htm

The AR-15 was designed by Armalite to meet the US Army requirement for a new assault rifle, chambered for a new intermediate cartridge. It was adopted by the US Army as the M16 and became a standard issue infantry weapon.

This weapon was designed in the late 1950s. At the time it was a very progressive design. The US Army demanded for a super light weapon. So the M16 has a number of lightweight materials in order to save weight. It uses aluminum in place of steel, fiberglass construction in place of wood. Also it has an ergonomic design. It incorporated many features, never seen before. At the time of its introduction it was called the "Space Rifle".

The barrel is in one line with the buttstock. This feature significantly reduces the recoil. It operates smoothly during fully automatic fire and is very easy to control. Consequently it is much more accurate during automatic fire than many other assault rifles. Its superior accuracy gives it a decisive advantage.

This superior weapon works great in battle, although it does have some faults. Newer models have a Picatinny-type rail and support various optics and detacheable accessories. It can be also fitted with underbarrel grenade launcher.

Since its introduction this assault rifle was constantly improved. This influential weapon was built in hundreds of variants. Approximately 8 million of these assault rifles were manufactures. The M16 and its derivatives are used by more than 70 countries around the world.

A lot of people like to compare the M16 vs AK-47. The M16 has 3 main advantages over AK-47, including range, accuracy and weight.

AR-15 that the article talks about is not the one sold today. That was the version designed in the late 50's for an army competition that was not sold to the public in a assault rifle configuration. That weapon was later adopted by the army as the M16. Both the original army competition AR15 and the M16 were Indeed true assault rifles as they fired in full auto and semi-automatic mode. That is the definition of an assault rifle. The AR15 and all of the civilian variants today are not assault rifles as they only fire in a semi-automatic mode and not full auto or 3 round burst. The function is the same as any semi-automatic rifle. In fact the AR15 weapons used by the terrorists in California were not even so called "assault weapons" as California has an assault weapons ban and those were not classified as those and fully legal for sale in California.

Better modify your NRA propaganda talking points. Another article proclaiming the AR-15 as the best "Assault Rifle"
--------------------------------------------------
The best assault rifle according to budget http://survival-mastery.com/diy/weapons/best-assault-rifle.html

Moving forward, it’s time to discuss a few popular assault rifles and see what makes them so wanted. As we discussed earlier, after you know your experience level, you need to know how much you want to invest in a rifle. Let’s see if any of these rifles make your budget.

The AR-15 – versatility and speed
This is one of the best assault rifles in America and its popularity is mainly due to the fact that the owner can customize it after his or her licking. The base platform is a combination between the military M16 and MA14 platforms and it’s widely used by law enforcement organs and US soldiers in combat situations.

Top 10 Best Assault Rifles http://www.thetoptens.com/best-assault-rifles/

The M16 has to be the finest assault rifle the world has ever seen and all of the rifles that have been made on the 16's frame are a testament to this fact. Although the AK is a wonderful rifle at close range it is not the be all due all that a weapon going into battle needs to be. Yes, I know the horror stories about the M16 but these go back to the early days of development and have no bases for the rifle used today. One other problem has been the US military asking to much of the design as in the M4 with a gas block placed to close to the receiver causing many problems but the M4 is not the M16 and that fact is often over looked. Could the M16 be improved with adding a simple piston system and high tech dry lube coatings, well yes! But over all the military can find no weapon the is truly leaps and bounds above the M16 or they would buy it. With the way we spend money on the military, spending big bucks for a finer weapon is not a concern. But someone has to build it first.M-1
There actually aren't very many rifles that use the M16's internals, just the ergo features (Some of them) there is a reason for this.

I guess you just ignore the horror stories from places like Wanat which are only a few years ago and have massive relevance to the M4s and M16s used right now.

Actually the US military has tested a number of weapons leaps and bounds better, the main hurtle is money and corruption. The US would rather have fancy expensive new jets that don't work than a reliable effective rifle.M+2
The M-16 works great in a battle. It does need cleaning like all guns do (other than AK's I guess) but you clean your gun between battles. The m16 is light and easy to carry 99% of the time your lugging this thing around... It's also accurate so you can hit what your shooting at... Not just spray bullets like the AK... And my real reason for voting for the M16... The AK does not fit comfortable for me to shoot.. It's the most uncomfortable piece of junk I've ever shot.. I have to pull the little stock ( made for little people? ) right up to my face then the shells almost hit me in the face when they come out. The sights are not as nice as the M16... I bought the AR15 $1600 triple the money an ak costs... But I wanted a gun that was fun to shoot... Not something that is built to just spray bulletsM+2
Only good if it works

select fire, full auto and semi-auto.

What are you doing, just Google searching blogs, lol I will liste to the ATF over some blog.