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Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:16 PM Dec 2015

Amnesty: Russian bombing of Syria may be a war crime

Source: Yahoo! News / Reuters

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia's bombing of Syria may amount to a war crime because of the number of civilians its strikes have killed, Amnesty International said on Wednesday, presenting what it said was evidence that the air raids had violated humanitarian law.

"Russian air strikes in Syria have killed hundreds of civilians and caused massive destruction in residential areas, striking homes, a mosque and a busy market, as well as medical facilities, in...attacks that show evidence of violations of international humanitarian law," Amnesty said in a new report.

Russia started its campaign of air strikes against militants in Syria on Sept. 30, saying it wanted to help the Kremlin's main Middle East ally, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, defeat Islamic State and other militant groups.

It has repeatedly and forcefully denied targeting civilians, saying it takes great care to avoid bombing residential areas.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/amnesty-russian-bombing-syria-may-war-crime-000656506.html

28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Amnesty: Russian bombing of Syria may be a war crime (Original Post) Little Tich Dec 2015 OP
I am not sure if Russia is part of The Hague yeoman6987 Dec 2015 #1
LIke the USA, they have signed but not ratified the Rome Statute for the ICC muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #11
Who cares! Hulk Dec 2015 #2
I imagine the "the world" can look at two separate things and arrive at two conclusions LanternWaste Dec 2015 #12
You got that right. The world has already shown us that it's quite OK to attack innocent peoples and BlueJazz Dec 2015 #14
American and Russian foreign policies commit war crimes on a daily basis. LS_Editor Dec 2015 #3
The AI report sounds bad PersonNumber503602 Dec 2015 #4
Unbelievable Beowulf42 Dec 2015 #5
Amnesty International is headquartered in Britain and founded in London in 1961: happyslug Dec 2015 #7
k+r Blue_Tires Dec 2015 #6
Putin is a war criminal and so is assad mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #8
I think so rockfordfile Dec 2015 #15
What criteria is used to classify someone as a war criminal? PersonNumber503602 Dec 2015 #19
re what criteria used to catagorize war criminals... mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #21
How many fucks do you think Putin gives about what Amnesty says? FLPanhandle Dec 2015 #9
Russia is not to be outdone by the US war crimes. Ivan Kaputski Dec 2015 #10
In your opinion, does that make Russia's possible war crimes any less relevant? PersonNumber503602 Dec 2015 #13
I quit trusting "reports" after 2003. Ivan Kaputski Dec 2015 #17
That would be a valid position if this was coming from the US State Department PersonNumber503602 Dec 2015 #18
Well then here we are again ...we're expected to be the world police? Ivan Kaputski Dec 2015 #22
I am not following. Who is expecting who to be the world police? PersonNumber503602 Dec 2015 #23
Be interesting to see if the UN gets involved. bdwker Dec 2015 #16
The moderate Islamist al qeada factions are based in civilian areas killbotfactory Dec 2015 #20
I donate to Amnesty International NeoConsSuck Dec 2015 #24
Quick search PersonNumber503602 Dec 2015 #25
I heard they took babies out of incubators and U4ikLefty Dec 2015 #26
The only question is who goes to the Hague first? leveymg Dec 2015 #27
Only the small players go to the Hague - the rest retire in luxury. Nihil Dec 2015 #28
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
1. I am not sure if Russia is part of The Hague
Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:21 PM
Dec 2015

If they are not then the most that can be done is a strongly worded letter.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,322 posts)
11. LIke the USA, they have signed but not ratified the Rome Statute for the ICC
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 12:28 PM
Dec 2015
https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=XVIII-10&chapter=18&lang=en

Though the USA then said (after Bush got into power) that it was never going to ratify it, while Russia has just ignored it.

While there is also the International Court of Justice, part of the UN, I think a case there would have to be brought by the affected country - ie Syria, which is happy with Russia bombing Syrians, so it does look unlikely to happen.
 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
2. Who cares!
Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:33 PM
Dec 2015

W and his cabal are still walking the streets as free criminals.

Yes....I care. You care; but how can we expect the world to give a shit when our recent history, and even some of our actions in the world yet today, are worthy of war crime consideration as well.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
12. I imagine the "the world" can look at two separate things and arrive at two conclusions
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 12:46 PM
Dec 2015

"but how can we expect the world to give a shit when our recent history..."

I imagine the "the world" can look at two separate things and arrive at two conclusions, each independent of the other. I also imagine our individual concerns are not predicated on what the world expects of us nor what we expect of the world.

Concern over a tsunami in the Philippines does not deny that same and equal concern over a hurricane along the east coast.

 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
14. You got that right. The world has already shown us that it's quite OK to attack innocent peoples and
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 03:03 PM
Dec 2015

....fuck them as hard as we can. I care also but not a damn thing is ever going to be done about such actions...UNLESS...in the future, some little country does a minor Bad Thing, then the USA will get all puffed up and outraged...just as phony as a 3 dollar bill.

LS_Editor

(893 posts)
3. American and Russian foreign policies commit war crimes on a daily basis.
Tue Dec 22, 2015, 11:50 PM
Dec 2015

Americans are taught we were the good guys in World War II after we bombed civilian populations. Then we did it again during Vietnam. And again during the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Time to take the rose-colored glasses off.

PersonNumber503602

(1,134 posts)
4. The AI report sounds bad
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 12:12 AM
Dec 2015

It's important to note that they are not saying that these civilian deaths were not collateral damage while striking military targets, but rather that the people they had on the ground saw no evidence of military targets in the area. I don't really see what Russia (or the US) gets by purposefully targeting civilians though. Isn't the rebels ability to blend in with the population easily, part of what makes these sorts of wars so hard to fight?

I'm not defending Russia, as I don't doubt that they are causing large numbers of civilians deaths. I'm just not sure what the answer is. Should Russia send in ground troops instead? Let their ally Assad fall to the hands of ISIS or western back rebels? Only bomb targets that they know for 100% sure have no civilians around? Forms of these questions apply to US/Western activities too.


*I wonder how long it will take for someone to come by and say AI is a CIA front. I mean, they both an A and an I in their acronym.

Beowulf42

(204 posts)
5. Unbelievable
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 11:01 AM
Dec 2015

Someone in America actually wants to open the stinking bag of excrement called the illegal and immoral bombing of civilians in the Middle East? The US certainly has no moral high ground when it comes to this subject. We are still searching for sanity in our foreign policy, and we're not making any progress.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
6. k+r
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 11:08 AM
Dec 2015

I guess the folks who had their shiny MSF incident to fuel their outrage have moved on to other things...

PersonNumber503602

(1,134 posts)
19. What criteria is used to classify someone as a war criminal?
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 05:21 PM
Dec 2015

If we're going to put Putin in that category, then we have to a put a lot of other world leaders into that group too. The world is a messed up placed.

mgmaggiemg

(869 posts)
21. re what criteria used to catagorize war criminals...
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 05:27 PM
Dec 2015

1. invading sovereign nations 2. bombing your own citizens...not that hard to draw a red line...meanwhile us police....no boots on the ground....not invading sovereign nations...2. us state not bombing it's citizens....simple. clear. Cheers, Peace Maggie

 

Ivan Kaputski

(528 posts)
10. Russia is not to be outdone by the US war crimes.
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 12:23 PM
Dec 2015

Considering the Iraq war the Russians have along way to go to catch up with the US.

PersonNumber503602

(1,134 posts)
13. In your opinion, does that make Russia's possible war crimes any less relevant?
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 02:35 PM
Dec 2015

How do you feel about such reports about Russia? Do you think they should be discussed, or do you believe they should be disregarded so that focus can remain on possible US/Western war crimes?

What are your thoughts on this particular report about Russia?

 

Ivan Kaputski

(528 posts)
17. I quit trusting "reports" after 2003.
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 05:10 PM
Dec 2015

I can't judge without bias. Maybe when we procecute our own war criminals I will develope a opinion about what others may or may not be doing.

PersonNumber503602

(1,134 posts)
18. That would be a valid position if this was coming from the US State Department
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 05:12 PM
Dec 2015

or some other US government agency, but this is coming from an international human rights groups that has been known in the past to criticize US actions.

 

Ivan Kaputski

(528 posts)
22. Well then here we are again ...we're expected to be the world police?
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 05:44 PM
Dec 2015

When other countries are as conserned as the US is supposed to be conserned we can all have ourselves a good ol WWIII with Russia.

PersonNumber503602

(1,134 posts)
23. I am not following. Who is expecting who to be the world police?
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 05:55 PM
Dec 2015

This article is about an international human right's group finding that Russia may be causing large numbers of civilian deaths in Syria. So again, do you believe that international human rights groups like Amnesty International should not report on countries such a Russia, and instead focus solely on the US and the west? Also do you have an opinion on the AI report in question, or is that something you feel is untrustworthy or not relevant?


To make the amount of effort expended somewhat equal, I'm going to give my thoughts on it.
I think it's relevant all around if we're discussing the Syria as a whole, and how best to handle it. Russian bombs make people just as dead as American bombs, and they can cause the same blow back. Whether or not the bombing/war approach to "solving" the problem is worth the side-effects is worthy of discussion, but that shouldn't view some bombs as better than others.

killbotfactory

(13,566 posts)
20. The moderate Islamist al qeada factions are based in civilian areas
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 05:27 PM
Dec 2015

It's kind of part of the whole civil war thing we've been bankrolling for the past few years.

But, yeah, Russia is the uniquely awful actor in all this.

NeoConsSuck

(2,544 posts)
24. I donate to Amnesty International
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 09:08 PM
Dec 2015

and I support them. But what was their response to the U.S bombing of the Afghan hospital that killed many Doctors without Borders medical personnel along with many patients? That was a definite war crime.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
27. The only question is who goes to the Hague first?
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 09:31 PM
Dec 2015

Us or them, or those guys over there, or the ones up in that direction, we're all guilty as hell of destroying Syria. The Hague isn't big enough for all these crimes. Maybe Hell is.

When AI lost its perspective sometime last decade, if not its independence, it lost my respect.

 

Nihil

(13,508 posts)
28. Only the small players go to the Hague - the rest retire in luxury.
Thu Dec 24, 2015, 06:13 AM
Dec 2015

> The Hague isn't big enough for all these crimes. Maybe Hell is.

I think that Hell is overflowing and the overspill is on this planet.

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