Or, maybe they're Mexican immigrants?

Or... Terrorists. That's it. Sure glad we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here.

Wait. What? White guys?

Again?

this all over.

Bet it's a test in their gear up for that revolution they keep talking about.

"The best possible outcome is that the ranchers that have been kicked out of the area, then they will come back and reclaim their land, and the wildlife refuge will be shut down forever and the federal government will relinquish such control," he said. "What we're doing is not rebellious. What we're doing is in accordance with the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land."

We went to the local communities and presented it many times and to many different people," he said. "They were not strong enough to make the stand. So many individuals across the United States and in Oregon are making this stand. We hope they will grab onto this and realize that it's been happening."

Among those joining Bundy in the occupation are Ryan Payne, U.S. Army veteran, and Blaine Cooper
Payne has claimed to have helped organize militia snipers to target federal agents in a standoff last year in Nevada. He told one news organization the federal agents would have been killed had they made the wrong move.


"

You surely aren't talking about the US Government...the same government that allows Cliven Bundy to continue to rip off US tax payers?

Since Waco and Ruby Ridge, the government only has the courage to go up against unarmed protesters...they're too afraid to actually face armed individuals, especially when you consider that some of those individuals are US military veterans, some of whom have seen combat and are not above shooting law enforcement!


The Feds will drag this out, hoping that the militia leaves on their own...but by failing to hold Bundy accountable, retreating, and continuing to do nothing...the Feds don't scare anyone, anymore!!!

to not have stomped bundy's ass into the ground in the original "take back amerika" incident.

what a bunch of buffoons...

"As the marchers reached the courthouse, they tossed hundreds of pennies at the locked door. The idea, militiamen said, was that civilians were "buying back" their government to serve the people. But the message didn't last long. Two young girls swooped in after the march passed on to scavenge the pennies."

It takes more than small change to have a democracy and make it work. If you feel like your government is out of control, organize the grass roots and get involved in self-government.

I guess....???

planned and paid for chant. These yahoo's want a revolution. This out of the way place is a test.

I wonder how organized this is because ultimately where do you think the Koch brother are going with all the very organized hate speech these people are spewing lately? All roads lead to their revolution. I hope the gov is investigating them because they are the biggest threat to the US government and us.

The Koch Bros support ALEC and ALC American Lands Council which repeats the 'Take Back the Land' to counties, receiving tens of thousands of dollars...they want to take, as in steal, public lands and privatize, selling them off to the highest bidders, be they energy industry (oil, natural gas or coal), mining, timber or 'rich guy who wants to play 'cowboy'...
Like a giant pyramid scheme, we have a county commissioner who is a star in this drama and several state representatives who receive contributions from the energy industry and support this 'mission.'
That is why I am intent on filing for candidacy just to raise support of this...and women's reproductive choice and pro-legalize cannabis...I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.

They all want to 'take back the lands' that belong to the public.

No usage of highways, airports, schools, hospitals nothing.

Will they back down again and let the terrorists have their way? What does it take for this government to get control of these whack jobs.

I'm thinking...black lives matter?

I wouldn't have made the correct connection if it wasn't for the events last year (or whenever it was)

You know, law and order?

they gave her heatstroke by leaving her in their police car in the desert.

Turn off the power, cut off the water, and blare Adele at them 24/7.

along with a mix of traditional Arabic music and Arabic rap

Their heads would explode.

"11 Popular Songs the CIA Used to Torture Prisoners in the War on Terror"

http://mic.com/articles/87851/11-popular-songs-the-cia-used-to-torture-prisoners-in-the-war-on-terror#.H6cWAn1hA

As much as these clowns deserve to have the book thrown at them, it's crucial President Obama handle this incident with kid gloves (just as he did with the Cliven Bundy incident a couple of years ago).

Because what Rethugs want most right now, is another Waco-style misfortune. We all know it wouldn't matter how much these criminals did to provoke it; if even one of those cretins is killed by a Federal Agent, it's goodbye to the White House for Democrats.

supporting them.

i think it is foolish to let them get away with it. there are plenty of dems who will be very disappointed if this is allowed to stand.
starve them out. cut the utilities. give them some decoys to waste their ammo on. hell, put some drugs in the water.
somewhere along the line, there is a line they cant cross. this looks like one to me.

I'm with you all the way there. These are criminals who deserve to be duped by all the clever schemes the authorities can muster - which besides would be for their own good (the militia participants), since a successful ruse on the part of the Feds would both defuse the situation and bring them to justice with no casualties.

Which is exactly what we want - and the GOP does not.

Let's hope and pray for the best.

send the Feds in to claim the Bundy ranch in Nevada.

Whack-a-militia-mole!

Owned by Robert E. Lee. Lee's former plantation is now the site of the Arlington National Cemetery. So there is precedent.

And if Obama was responsible for it? Holy shit! Well, Cliven Bundy would tell us about the negro.

This needs to be handled delicately.

I 100% agree that a heavy-handed crackdown on this terrorists would turn them into martyrs and enrage their wackadoodle base...

...however...

By popping the lid off the bottle of crazy that is the unhinged right-wing extremists, the moderates and independents in the public might see the lunatics in all their hatred. An electoral shift to the left could occur (similar to backlash against the same fringe after Oklahoma City).

We had better not play checkers with this, when the far right has gotten so good at playing chess.

before massive gunnuts join them with just reading about it and no provocation from the gov.

From the article:
"Ryan Bundy said there were no hostages, but the group is demanding that the Hammonds be released and the federal government relinquish control of the Malheur National Forest.

He said many would be willing to fight — and die, if necessary — to defend what they see as constitutionally protected rights for states, counties and individuals to manage local lands. Among those joining Bundy in the occupation are Ryan Payne, U.S. Army veteran, and Blaine Cooper Payne has claimed to have helped organize militia snipers to target federal agents in a standoff last year in Nevada. He told one news organization the federal agents would have been killed had they made the wrong move."

that's exactly where these anti-gov's will go with this.

motherfuckers off the map.

is more in order, a la Vicksburg.

happens is the day I arm up. Our military is not to be used against it's citizens....PERIOD. I am an X-combat soldier and I can see how one would make really stupid comments like you just did...ignorance.

siege, a la Vicksburg.

What's your position on the U.S. civil War, by the way?

I sure did.

"I will defend the constitution of the U.S against all enemies, both foreign and domestic..."

i thought one of the asshats said they are ready to do that.

Then he said the federal agents would have been killed if they made the wrong move.

They'd already be dead. This must be shut down or it will grow. At a minimum, they should be surrounded and denied electricity, water, food and any other resource, identified and incarcerated in our Federal prison system for the rest of their lives.

at some point the president needs to take a stand instead of worrying about what the republicans think

No slap on the hand for their stunt. Bye bye losers.

Let the little fuckers pretend they're in Stalingrad. They'll have fun with that for about a day, then they'll be whimpering to get out.

vowing to occupy the remote federal outpost 50 miles southeast of Burns for years.

Ammon Bundy said the the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined.

If this does turn out to be another Ruby Ridge, they started it.

They use wells.

And the electricity and water

A siege may prevent them from refreshing supplies, but the first attempt at interception would spark either a violent confrontation or the Feds backing down again. Whatever the response, it will be costly to taxpayers. I wonder if Federal forfeiture laws can be used to seize their homes and assets? They can't assemble at all their homes at once.

That would likely not be the case here. Unless the protest turns violent, the men in the building are looking at fines and minor jail time at best. Though I'm adamant that the Government not back down again.

situation, IMO this is going to grow and grow. As someone else said, this is their test to see how far they can go. My hope is this can be cleared up without any bloodshed.

but they 'attack' and take over a National Wildlife Refuge building.

Let them take over a Fed Marshall's building.

Or FBI.

Their teeny little cojones would fall out of their wives' pocketbook.

Don't forget they attacked and won a battle with an empty building. No one there for the weekend.

I wish my car was younger and I didn't have so many animals. I'd love to take a trip to Burns to check this out. But then again the weather...ahhh nope!

Per the article.

They're totally separate entities. Not even in the same department.

The refuge is Interior, and the forest is Ag.

can "farm on it" (and I'd put money that there's a corporation that wants the land. My wild guess is Koch brother's for fracking but I have no idea.)

I was just correcting you with this is about more than just taking the building. They are also demanding criminals freed from federal prison. The money is the Federal land though. Always follow the money. The right has spent a lot of money teaching their minions to be against protected land for the reason that their corporate superpacts want to rape it. The building and the convicts are to throw us off.

There was no one there to "resist" their takeover.

Yes, it's not over, and they plan on hanging out there for awhile, but it's a small group with no power, so it's just going to be a news story for awhile...hopefully! And then hopefully, they all get sent to join those other federal prisoners.

Send the Army to clear them out. No prisoners shall be taken.

Wolf

an excessive use of force that they can get behind...

federal building and want to take over a federal forest. As soon as they kill someone can we call them terrorists?

Based on the age of the well that serves the property, it's likely a fair enough distance from the building. Cut it off.

Unless the pump is solar-powered, cutting off the electricity should do it.

It wouldn't be too hard to prepare for an extended occupation.

Once they are done burning the trail maps and their candy bar wrappers, it's 10 degrees there. Turn off the heat, turn off the water, douse the interior with water by sticking a firehose through the window or down a chimney or if you can't get close, backflow it into a waste water line from a distance, and wait 6 hours until they start to freeze to death.

They'll come out. The ones that don't will be too delirious to fight. Freezing does funny things to the mind.

Bonus, they'll come out looking like the Abominable Snowman.

Kerosene heaters, again with the fuel brought in. Water is easy - you melt snow. This is not rocket science, especially if these guys are preppers. Lots of people know how to survive for extended periods in extreme cold - ask any snow mobiler, ice fisherman or winter camper.

If the guys are armed, just how are you going to get a fire hose anywhere near that building?

or get gas you have to go outside the building.

Unless you're dumb enough to bring fuel storage inside.

I suspect that they have a sizable water supply on hand to start with.

Enough water for 20 guys in an extended siege? You're talking serious amounts of water.

And yes, shoot (or tase, or hose down with freezing water) on sight when they leave the building if they refuse to surrender, I should think.

Either way their supplies cannot be infinite and can't be that large; 20 guys in a large-cabin sized building at 10 degrees might last a week or two at the outside if they brought in all they could fit in the place. They are surrounded by open space full of cops with clear lines of sight. There are non-lethal weapons that could render someone unable to go back in from the moment they presented a clear target, and you can bet the feds have them. All you'd need would be a tranqulizer dart, a rubber bullet, or a strong LRAD or if you can get close enough, a taser. If they provide covering fire, then you escalate to real bullets.

Speed things up and knock out a wall or some windows and soak the place with a high powered hose from a safe distance.

Not sure why you are arguing for these guys' proficiency (on the basis of no facts either way about their supply levels or preparation). I'm an avid hunter and used to winter wilderness conditions in the west. I look at most of these guys and wonder if they've ever walked more than a few miles into the wilderness. Right now they are in a house. It is very simple to render a house uninhabitable at 10 degrees ambient. They can be frozen out. Their fuel source can be suppressed and denied if it's outside, and it has to be limited severely if it's inside. So I don't see the argument here really. Yeah maybe they can hang on a few days or a week. But they can't hang on indefinitely and the feds aren't going to let them. Waco and Ruby Ridge were both on the preppers' own turf and terms. Both situations involved adversaries with dug in supplies of food, fuel, water, and comm gear, not to mention ammo and weapons, intimate knowledge of the terrain involved, and more impervious redoubts.

Frankly I think a high intensity acoustic weapon could do the job quickly with no bloodshed. But add water and wait.

if you are correct, all we have to do is put up a secure perimeter and wait awhile. Sounds like a reasonable course of action to me.

I say one week outside, if the Feds go easy.

i love it when people talk so self assuredly about something they don't know about.

there's really no need to do that.

nobody is forcing you to say things about the region Malheur is located in, but there you are speaking off the cuff (and wrongly) as though you have no choice but to post something incorrect.

why are you so persistently rude? Just your nature?

If an anonymous Internet poster bothers you much than perhaps it is time to evaluate your priorities. Here is hoping for a healthier outlook for you.

as that accusation against me.

I don't have any patience left when you post the wrong information.

That's far different from a grudge.

Why is that? Getting all worked up and being a jerk is going to make things all better? Some how I doubt it. Would it help you if I put you on ignore so you don't have to interact with me? I would be willing to do it for you.

This constant portrayal of yourself as a victim when you're merely being corrected on your errors is really getting tiresome.

And your suggestion about ignoring you seems to be more about you wanting to be able to make incorrect statements without correction than anything else.

Why don't you take some responsibility for your posts and not say things that are wrong?

You wouldn't want to mislead anyone right?

I have no real problem being correct - I am not perfect. Serial jerkoffs do bother me.

Drop a few tear gas cannisters down it.

The toy soldiers will come out.

to let them know of their fears about the militia being there. While half a dozen of the militia men wore holstered side-arms (open carry). Nothing like a little intimidation at a meeting for a supposedly peaceful conversation.

Damn, these open carry idiots make me feel sick. Everything happening all over the US seems to be coming to some kind of a head. Some kind of a civil war if enough people get involved.

The blacks know. The white Democrats just haven't caught on yet.

To federal prison to serve the additional time don't want these buffoons anywhere near their town. Gov Brown should lay down the law, arrest every one of them for b and e, trespass, terroristic threatening, etc etc. Fuck these fools - gawd damn am I sick of these idiots.

Insurrection is no joke but these guys are in fantasy land, so we have that going for us. Don't create martyrs, create work for investigators.

This probably starts unraveling when those involved start feeling the effect of the lower credit scores their life choices are going to bring.

I don't think it's helpful to coddle these blatant law breakers. People's trust in the fairness of our system is already tattered. I'd say it's safe to say nearly all the referees are going to agree that the administration has showed patience and restraint with these clowns. Time to serve warrants and roll them up. It's not like we don't have decades of experience in doing this.

Shut off the power. Remove all government employees. Don't plow the roads. Block every road. No one gets in or out. It's winter. Starve the ignorant sonsabitches.

There is a tiny town right next to the headquarters called Voltage. That must be where they are getting their power!

that's a joke, just in case someone was wondering.