http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/

At the time I wrote this, both were down 2.75-3%

'Saudi Arabia gave Iranian diplomats 48 hours to leave the kingdom as escalating tensions over the execution of an outspoken Shiite cleric in Saudi Arabia marked a new low in relations between the two Middle Eastern powers.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/world/middleeast/iran-saudi-arabia-execution-sheikh-nimr.html?

Just lovely. Happy New Year, everyone. Can't say you weren't warned.

China's stock market is much more speculative and less transparent than ours.

I think the real takeaway will turn out to be more along this line:

1) American consumers didn't spend as much as anyone thought this Christmas
2) As a result, exports are flat
3) As a result, China's economy (which is still robust) isn't growing at it's once remarkable rate
4) And the Americans raised rates, so don't look for their economy to roar to our rescue anytime soon.

National
Holiday spending up 8 percent; online sales surge
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By Associated Press December 28, 2015
NEW YORK — Americans spent more on items like furniture during the holidays this year, with online shopping in particular seeing a big spike, according to a report released Monday.

Overall spending rose 7.9 percent from a year ago, according to the MasterCard SpendingPulse report, which tracks retail sales across cards, cash and checks from Black Friday to Christmas Eve. The uptick was driven by people sitting in the comfort of their homes or at work, with online shopping up 20 percent.

Shopping at physical stores still accounts for the majority of spending during the holidays. But the continuing shift to online shopping is forcing retailers to improve their websites, or offer perks like faster or free delivery. Earlier this month, another report by First Data also found that online sales growth was outpacing sales growth at physical stores. That report was based on payments from Oct. 31 to Dec. 14.

The SpendingPulse report does not include spending by dollar amounts. But the National Retail Federation, the nation’s largest retail trade group, expects sales for November and December to rise 3.7 percent to $630.5 billion from a year ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/holiday-spending-up-8-percent-online-sales-surge/2015/12/28/66ccbc66-ad74-11e5-b281-43c0b56f61fa_story.html

First - thanks.

Second -- if it's not holiday spending, what is spooking the market?

And none of the stories about the drop (Bloomberg, MarketWatch) even reference the Middle East situation.

would push up oil prices, which would be bad for China, and a big war would mean less consumer spending which would also be bad. China's military-industrial sector is large but much less advanced than other superpowers like the US and Russia, and as a result far less export-focused, so it can't act as a counterweight to falling consumer stocks.

I still haven't quite figured out exactly WHY NY always freaks when the other markets fall. Especially if the cause isn't necessarily a global business. There goes my 401K again. We're retired so we can't look to make up the losses with future earnings either.

Not 7% -- probably more like the 2.5-3% you are seeing in the other Asian markets (400-600 on a Dow currently at 17425). keep in mind we lost about a percent on Thursday.

On the theory of "sell the rumor, buy the news", I'm guessing the markets got early wind of American 4Q and Christmas retail figures and they didn't meet expectations.

Remember that the market was up to 18K, then fell to close to 16K, then bounced right back. I don't think we are looking at a 2008-style meltdown. That said, if you are retired, have you discussed a more appropriate investment allocation? Bonds? REITs? T-bills?

None are aggressive, and most all are invested in companies that are very stable. Never earn a LOT, but never lose a LOT either. I Guess I got used to seeing market gains for such a long time, it's hard for me to accept even small drops. No big deal I guess. I'll just groan and hope for a better tomorrow.

But if you already have your retirement with Vanguard / some Fidelity investments, then there's not much you can do on the cost-cutting front.

Just about everything looks expensive with low expected forward returns these days. Well, bonds aren't expensive, they just don't have satisfactory real returns. CD ladders can beat a lot of comparatively risky bonds!

The one exception seemed to be international equities which was rather cheap in comparison, but then today happened.

They are generally trading the upside that equities offer in order to avoid cyclical downturns that could wipe out significant portions of their savings.

http://nypost.com/2015/12/28/christmas-sales-figures-are-the-best-in-at-least-five-years/

Up nearly 8%.

I hadn't read that and was frankly surprised -- although not about the online shopping part.

Who knows I guess. It looks like the last weekend did well as did online sales. Plus with Xmas on a Friday I guess the 26th and 27th did very well as it fell on a weekend. Plus gift cards are not recognized until used.

...and I would not anticipate full blown war over this -- but one never knows in the ME.

The dollar is on the rebound.

Because the exchange rate sucks here in South Korea buying dollars.

Dow's down 428 points at noon.

This seems to be localized to East Asia so far.

and need to take some $ out of investments for a family 'gift.'

"Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

Animal Farm.

Don't ask me why.

if Paul Ryan and his AYN RAND crowd could tie Social Security to these hedge funds and Wall street backers, just think of what would happen to your now guaranteed government retirement which was paid into---------------------poof

.

Honk-----------------------for a political revolution Bernie 2016