http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/koeln-spur-gestohlener-handys-fuehrt-auch-in-fluechtlingsheime-a-1071075.html
(article in german)

Some of the Smartphones stolen on New Years Eve in Cologne were traced by police to be in refugee-camps right now.

I believe many more Germans would be speaking out against the refugees coming, but are afraid to because they would be labelled as neo-Nazis. I can't imagine she will survive the 2017 elections.

I wouldn't count her out yet. Besides, if she steps down in favor of Ursula von der Leyen, you will just see more of the same in a younger face. Von der Leyen is one very smart woman in her own right.

Merkel did badly miscalculate with the refugees, but she still has time for damage control before the elections. It depends on how her administration reacts to this. If she acts forcefully and immediately acts to expel the bad apples after burning their precious German permits, she will gain respect for dealing with her mistakes. If she allows them to stay with a slap on the wrist, every one of them with the slightest inclination to engage in this sort of activity will know that they can do so with impunity, and her time as chancellor will indeed end with this term.

The ball is in her court as to how this will play out.

Such as the events at the Kölner Dom. It's how well she does with damage control that will determine her political future. I definitely see it as her greatest challenge. Everything else that has been tossed at her had some kind of list of possible solutions to choose from. I'm sure that there is such an option this time.

Have I interpreted that correctly do you know?

My German isn't particularly good.

About 200 reported crimes, many of them in connection with sexual assault (not most of the crimes being sexual assault).

From the Der Spiegel article noted above:

Translated:

I was in the States at the time, and I have witnesses!

(Just kidding.)

Probably get an interrogator speaking Arabic (I don't) being assisted by guys fluent in Farsi and Pashto (I'm not that either), and being handled by some guy in an office somewhere who doesn't want to get his hands dirty, but happens to be fluent in Spanish (so am I).

There are several threads here where DU members are making excuses or denying this happened. It's time to stop.

especially that 'false flag' garbage.

Having said that, there are also some extremely noxious generalisations about migrants, and their religion & culture, being peddled on the various threads - we could do without those sort of posts too.

I haven't seen that on DU.

What I have seen is people who do not believe that penalizing individuals who did not commit crimes is a sensible way to go after individuals who did commit crimes.

But there are people here at DU who want those ignorant guys standing around in Oregon to be massacred by the government while demanding patience in a case where actual women were raped.

If the headline had been "Christian group sexually assaults women in Germany" those same DUers would have no problem making sweeping generalizations.

There are quite a few people on DU who will minimize any wrong that certain groups do while going all out to attack lesser offenses from other groups.

"there are people here at DU who want those ignorant guys standing around in Oregon to be massacred by the government while demanding patience in a case where actual women were raped"

Okay, now, I don't keep a spreadsheet of DU members handy in order to determine which DUer says one thing on one topic and another thing on another topic, so I'll take your word on that one. There are "people on DU" who will say almost anything if you treat "people on DU" as a unit.

And, when you think about it, that type of generalization seems to be a flaw in the way that "some people" think about things.

"Southern people" are racists - undoubtedly, most lynchings occurred in the South, so it must be something about "Southern people" in general, right?

"Californians are flaky" - a lot of flaky stuff comes from California. Personally, I think there is something in the avocados.

"Mexican immigrants are rapists, drug dealers, etc." - Wild applause when Trump says this.

You can see examples of this all of the time, and probably think of a lot more.

This type of thinking is instinctive, and certainly had evolutionary advantages, and takes effort to avoid because in a modern context it causes problems.

There's a collective amnesia about some kind of "plot" that was determined to be afoot well before New Year's. It is why Brussels cancelled their New Year celebration in the first place. As noted in several reports, this appears to have been done on a coordinated basis. It's worth wondering, if this activity is the one about which there were early vague warnings, then who - and by that I mean actual people, not a nebulous "group" - organized this and why.

All kinds of people do all kinds of horrific things, and sometimes do so in groups of organized individuals. But I don't see the point of attributing those horrific things to individuals who did not do them, nor had any connection to the group of individuals which organized them. Not only is that unproductive, but it is ultimately counterproductive.

Okay, no one actually thinks that...

Knee jerk stupidity to deny the fact and character of these outrageous crimes. People need to grow the fuck up.

you're an Islamophobe if you criticize their behavior

said no one....

It was just a few assholes, blaming all Muslims for this is disgusting.

A group of folks get together to have a good time on New Years Eve, who happen to be dark skinned (*gasp*). A few bad actors in the crowd start molesting women. And suddenly the entire GROUP is accused of being a horde of ravenous Muslims. And we fall for it. Disgusting.

It is no different than saying Blacks are inherently violent because of inner city gang violence.

And those spewing hate and Islamophobia will be tracked down and prosecuted.

Christians from Syria also have a diminished view of women. It's just a cultural norm in many middle eastern countries -- especially rural areas. It's not exclusively a Muslim thing.

That said, send the bastards back. That's not how things work in modern Europe.

The only known aspect of the violence as reported is that of the 31 id., 18 were refugees from middle eastern countries. Not every middle easterner is MUSLIM, so assuming that Muslim refugees are responsible is speculation. Assuming these outbreaks of violence are spurred on by alcohol would contradicts Islam which forbids drinking alcohol. Religion does influence culture but there is no evidence that Muslims should be directly to blame for New Year's eve. Refugees, maybe but not because they are Muslims. This behavior is counter to Islam.

Men who present false witness about assaults on women, either blaming those who should not be blamed or protecting those who are guilty are men who are taking part in a negative aspect of male culture. Those who blame the whole group, bad. Those who give blanket immunity to a group, the same exact sort of bad.

Men who are in anyway dishonest about the facts of violence toward women are doing the wrong thing.

The guilty are all straight males, those who mitigate their actions are all straight males. You do the math.

She obviously had more insight that any of us. If further research resulted in a different conclusion, then so be it. We are still talking about a small handful of bad actors amongst a group of millions.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mayor-of-cologne-says-women-should-have-code-of-conduct-to-prevent-future-assault-a6798186.html

Some, although not all, were refugees.

And of course she proffered the now notorious Code of Conduct.

ETA: This was, I think, from her first press conference
ETA: And, I think you posted on the thread which discussed this article.

Good thinkin' there...

that blamed the victims and thinks the WOMEN need a code of conduct? Fuck her.

there were over 200 assaults reported, let alone what is unreported. so that might have involved more than the 31 identified. news accounts also report that officials say identification was difficult.

i don't think the problem people have is that these were dark skinned (*gasp*) folks having a good time. I think the problem is that these folks, whatever their tone, were causing other folks to have a very bad time.

And these are just the perps who have been identified.

Witness and victim accounts tell a much different story.

Women need to suck it up and be accepting of these cultural difference.

that Islam and other belief systems promote is what is disgusting.

Of course one cannot blame all Muslims for these actions, but there are in Germany already thousands of immigrants suspected to be involved in this type of criminality.

Getting rid of the criminal element would help matters a lot.

But of course the right will continue to blame all refugees/Muslims for this shit.

are refugees. That means more than 1/2. If it holds there were 1000 perps, that extrapolates to over 500 of these animals. There was NOBODY here blaming all Muslims so that's bullshit all together. But you keep defending ALL the refugees while the rest of the thinking world will realize there is a real problem that needs a solution. Meanwhile, you keep your heads in the sand.

It only took them a week. It breeds distrust of the German government when they try to cover up this or say "hate speech in chat rooms is worse than rape".

and thrown it down the drain like that.

You ain't no refugee, bruv.

The tragedy of Syria and the tragedy of rape.

No matter what kind of misogynistic society they came from, what on earth would possess a person who has lost everything and been given a second chance, by a country that had no reason other than compassion to do so, to 1) attack citizens of that country and 2) ruin the chances of other refugees to find safety? It's beyond awful.

is STUPID.

A painful reality, when you open the doors wide enough, some roaches will probably walk in.

Contradictory information out there about these attacks.

And people who are genuinely persecuted (gay, religious minorities, etc). Young, single, male migrants should be sent back, unless there is good evidence that they are really persecuted (if they are gay, for instance).

Families, children and the elderly should be welcome as a matter of course.

For a number of reasons....

I live in a town just south of Munich. There is refugee tent about 1-2 km from where I live. When I was walking down to the tram, a young blond girl about the age of 16 was walking in front of me. A group of refugees walking toward us started walking directly in front of the girl. When she moved right, they moved right, when she moved left, they moved left. They were purposely blocking her until I told them off. They laughed at me and thought it was a great laugh. The young girl took off as fast as she could.

This culture simply does not mix with German culture. The freedoms we once enjoyed have gone out the window and I truly feel sorry for the women here.

for spewing Islamophobia!!!

Anyone can state their opinion or their personal story, whether good or odious, and not have to worry about fines and jail. Anyone can tell their truth, and the worst thing that can happen to them is to be ignored. I'd rather have that than everyone being "protected" by hate speech laws.

"Freedom is being able to say 2+2=4."
George Orwell, 1984

also give far righties or Islamophobes the same privileges. America can be a hot mess at times but I wouldn't want it any other way.

And its unfortunate the young lady was harassed. However, I fear that the narrative is rapidly escalating that "single males of Middle Eastern or North African origin currently enjoying refugee status in Northern Europe are basically rapists and molesters in waiting." That is not the case. 99.99% of said single males just want to find homes, jobs, and integrate into German society.

I could share multiple instances during my lifetime of groups of young men (some white, some black, some hispanic) acting in a hostile manner. That doesn't mean I should tar all with the same brush.

violence toward women is a problem among straight men. Where the straight man comes from or where he prays is not the key element in creating that misogyny, the common denominator is that this is a thing straight males do. Other straight males then try to downplay what their peers have done, they try to make it about religion or culture they say 'but but but' when shown women in fear and injured, 'but not all of them, but the hispanics do it too, but, but but'.

Many hills are worth defending, but no man who abuses women is worth a word of my defense.

I have defended no one responsible for these attacks. I have merely pointed out the error in blaming an entire group of people instead of the perpetrators.

violence toward women that is presented by men is assisting in the culture of violence against women. The nature of that dishonesty is immaterial, as I said to blame incorrectly is dishonest and so is to defend those who have done violent acts against women. Those men who seek the facts and justice for the women involved are righteous, those who have any other concern are part of the problem. Yesterday you were attempting to write a narrative about this that was not the truth. That's just as bad and the errors you wail against, it is the same exact error.

The first time I met my mothers grandmother (she was 92), she told my wife that she was scared that an American was sleeping in the house. That was because some American soldiers during WWII would rape the German women.

When the soldiers came, her mother used to get her up and they would hide until they were gone.

I was a US soldier in WWII. I was put in the MP to deal specifically with German prisons and populations because I am a native German speaker -- who was also Jewish.

There were definitely bad apples in the Army that would do that. We arrested plenty and punished them severely.

And they were told a lot of lies by the Nazis about how we behaved in order to encourage resistance.

The population was absolutely terrified of me because I was a Jewish guy, a US soldier, and clearly the boss.

I acted professionally, but I did absolutely nothing to dispel their fears because, candidly, I fucking hated them for what they did to everyone I knew except my mom, dad, and little sister, and wanted them to suffer.

Not my highest and best moment of life. Letting go of the hatred took the better part of a century.

And to let you know your input is appreciated here.

like the one who harassed her with the same brush. Same with her family and friends after they find out what they did to her. She's not going to be making allowances for any groups of dark young men after being scared like that. And if that sort of thing has been going on, the refugees / Muslims, for lack of a better word, had better start moderating their juniors and their own behaviour as well or it will get really ugly.

....in Malmö.

Is not acceptable in other countries. And that they may very likely be sent right back where they came from. Seems strange that they would risk so much.

No, wait, now that I think about it, maybe we only increased law enforcement, deported (or imprisoned) those guilty of crimes, and allowed those who were seeking a better way of life to come join our society.

Those thugs are reprehensible and should be punished. Those innocents who happen to share their nationality should not be punished.

Last edited Fri Jan 8, 2016, 12:48 PM - Edit history (1)

I am an obviously Jewish guy. I look like a stereotype. I am fit, but old.

I was in Sweden 3 years ago and it was very clear it was not safe for me to walk the streets. I ended up basically staying in a hotel and seeing family in closed locations. No travel by foot -- only car -- and not even taxi, because the drivers would refuse to drive a Jewish person.

In fact, I was stopped and yelled at by a police man because my existence threatened the peace of the community -- basically the same message of the German mayor that German women are "asking for it."

So I believe these stories in Germany.

I am not sure why people think it OK to import citizens that are overwhelmingly misogynistic, anti-Semitic, homophobic, and generally intolerant of others.

I was told here on DU that the occasional terrorist shooting (and probably by extension, the occasional mass sexual assault) was the price to pay for doing the right thing in bringing in all those refugees. That supposedly we owe these people and we should just deal with it.
But I'm more of where you come from. It's terrible to have your government throw the doors open to just whomever, and hope for the best.

When my brother immigrated to the USA (he was much older than I and unwisely stayed in Germany due to family commitments and ended up in a concentration camp in Poland) he was asked a series of questions and subject to review:

"Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Nazi party?" was one.

We could set up a system for screening immigrants to get rid of the plurality of the immigrants that hold these kind of intolerant beliefs.

Yes, it would be imperfect, and yes, many would lie, but most people (thanks to social media) have left a large paper trail of what they believe. So I think we'd catch most.

If they are the "intolerant Muslim" (or intolerant anyone) variety, they can't come in.

And make them pass a test on basic behavior in Western society BEFORE they come here.

Does she (A) Want sex, (B) Has her own thing going on, and probably wants YOU to leave her alone, or (C) Who cares what she wants. She's a woman and is for sex."

An answer of anything other than B can get you a free plane ride back east.

But, yes, that's the idea.

It is perfectly legal (and Constitutional) to screen out people with crappy worldviews.

There goes that argument. The German government once against tried to deflect blame by releasing information that implied Germans did it.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/uebergriffe-in-koeln-in-der-silvesternacht-zwei-festnahmen-14003875.html

Google translate version.
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faz.net%2Faktuell%2Fpolitik%2Fuebergriffe-in-koeln-in-der-silvesternacht-zwei-festnahmen-14003875.html&edit-text=

Some of the stolen mobile phones have been traced to refugee shelters or near them.

200 crimes now reported in Cologne.

...who are using phony accents while conducting a false flag operation.

Remember, if you blame ANY refugees for bad behavior, you are blaming ALL refugees for it.

report that was agitating for separation of men and women and better toilet facilities because of the bad security situation. But robberies are not uncommon, apparently.

The situation is clearly out of control. The bad apples are acting this way because they have learned that nothing happens to them.

The city braced on Saturday for a rally of the far-right Pegida movement, one of the groups that point to the assaults as proof that chancellor Angela Merkel’s liberal migrant policy is failing.

Police expect about 1,000 Pegida supporters and the local far-right group Pro NRW, as well as counter-demonstrators from the group “Cologne against Right-wingers”, local media said.

Shabani, the witness spoken to by the Guardian, said she had viewed the events from the cathedral steps, having gone to the city centre to experience her first German new year, eight months after arriving as a political asylum seeker from Iran. She said she had been astounded by the police’s nonchalance. “They seemed to just let it happen,” she said. “I watched as men fired large firecrackers horizontally into the crowd and they police just stood at the side of the square with their hands on their hips”.

Of the 31 people identified, nine were Algerian, eight Moroccan, five Iranian, four Syrian and two German, plus an Iraqi, a Serb and a US citizen.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/08/cologne-violence-suspects-include-asylum-seekers

Interesting that there are only 4 Syrians and 1 Iraqi were among the 31. One wonders how the rest of the 18 'asylum seekers' hope to be successful if most are from Algeria and Morocco.

Why is this not happening? Tell me why.

Also, please realize that many of the longer-term Islamic resident population is nothing like the criminal element of this batch of imports. They are probably quite shocked.

of how long Europe will survive ?