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Eugene

(61,947 posts)
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 12:19 PM Feb 2016

North Korea notifies U.N. agency of planned satellite launch

Source: Reuters

North Korea has notified the International Maritime Organization of plans to launch a satellite between Feb. 8 and Feb. 25, the United Nations agency told Reuters late on Tuesday.

North Korea had been believed to be making preparations for a test launch of a long-range rocket, U.S. officials have said, after activity at its test site was observed by satellite.

"We have received information from DPRK regarding the launch of earth observation satellite 'Kwangmyongsong' between 8-25 February," a spokeswoman with the IMO told Reuters by email.

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Western and Asian experts have said that launch was part of an effort to build an intercontinental ballistic missile.

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Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-satellite-idUSKCN0VB1NY



World | Tue Feb 2, 2016 10:19am EST
SEOUL
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North Korea notifies U.N. agency of planned satellite launch (Original Post) Eugene Feb 2016 OP
DUCK! snooper2 Feb 2016 #1
So knock it down. Android3.14 Feb 2016 #2
On what LEGAL grounds? happyslug Feb 2016 #3
Finding a legal justification is simple Android3.14 Feb 2016 #4
"On what LEGAL grounds?" because of UN sanctions. EX500rider Feb 2016 #6
Those Sanctions are being applied and followed, no use of force is part of the Sanctions happyslug Feb 2016 #8
That wouldn't be very nice harun Feb 2016 #5
I've been reading a lot about NK... bdwker Feb 2016 #7
 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
3. On what LEGAL grounds?
Tue Feb 2, 2016, 07:02 PM
Feb 2016

Yes, North Korea is NOT in the US and is subject to a UN use of force declaration (Passed during the Korean War, while the USSR by boycotting the UN, something the USSR never did afterward). A true was entered into in 1953 thus the use of FORCE is NOT permitted unless it is in self defense.

Now, Korea is located north of the Equator and as such the quickest way to get into space is be sending any rocket westward, in the case of Korea over Japan. If the missile enters "Space" before it flys over Japan, then it is legal for since the 1960s it has been international law that Space is NOT subject to the jurisdiction of any country. The real issue is when does "Space" begin:

There is no international agreement on the vertical extent of sovereign airspace (the boundary between outer space—which is not subject to national jurisdiction—and national airspace), with suggestions ranging from about 30 km (19 mi) (the extent of the highest aircraft and balloons) to about 160 km (99 mi) (the lowest extent of short-term stable orbits). The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale has established the Kármán line, at an altitude of 100 km (62 mi), as the boundary between the Earth's atmosphere and outer space, while the United States considers anyone who has flown above 50 miles (80 km) to be an astronaut; indeed descending space shuttles have flown closer than 80 km (50 mi) over other nations, such as Canada, without requesting permission first.[5] Nonetheless both the Kármán line and the U.S. definition are merely working benchmarks, without any real legal authority over matters of national sovereignty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace


Thus space can begin at :

1. 19 miles (30 KM), the point where balloons can go no higher

2. 50 miles, (80 KM), the US definition for astronaut (Notice NOT a definition for Space, but just for who can call oneself an "astronaut" thus more to do with military status then international law).

3. 62 miles (100 KM), the so call "Karman Line"

4. 99 Miles (160 KM), the lowest one can have a stable flight (Short term only, must fly higher for any long term stability).

The Saturn V Rocket of the Apollos missions took 11 minutes to get to 100 miles, thus 11 minutes to get into what everyone considers "Outer Space". It took Apollo Saturn Rockets to reach orbit after going 1100 to 1500 miles (Apollo 7 did it is 1100 miles but on a Saturn 1B mass 1.3 Million pounds NOT the much larger Saturn V Rocket, at 6.5 Million pounds):

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_18-21_Earth_Orbit_Data.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_IB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V

From Korea to Japan over the Sea of Japan is about 1000 KM (About 620 miles), should be enough area to get a rocket into space (The distance from South Korea to Japan is much shorter, but any Rocket will go over the Sea of Japan). The Saturn V was a largest rocket ever produced and its range over land would have been the highest ever. Thus while it took Saturn V 1500 mile to reach 100 miles above the earth, smaller rockets should be able to do so in the 620 miles width of the Sea of Japan and the 1500 mile range was to the 100 mile attitude, what everyone accepts as "Outer Space".

The key is how far on the earth surface the Rocket will travel before it flys over Japan? If it takes more then 1000 KM to get into what Japan calls "Space" then it is violating Japanese Air Space. On the other hand if the rocket gets over Japan above all of the above limits, then it is in outer space and Japan has no grounds to complain. Previous Rocket launches by North Korea has been of short range rockets into the Sea of Japan.

Japan has positioned Patriot Anti Missiles Missiles in Tokyo in case this is a failure (North Korea has had several failures in rocket launches).

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/news/a19210/japan-deploys-patriot-missiles-in-downtown-tokyo/

http://wwlp.com/2016/01/30/patriot-missiles-installed-in-central-tokyo/

Shooting down a falling object over one's own territory is legal under international law, but shooting it down as it is climbing is another situation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Japan

Thus unless Japan says the Rocket violated its Air Space by flying to low, Japan has no legal reason to shoot down this rocket. Thus to call for a shoot down is a call to violate international law without good cause and no country is going to do that (on the other hand if the Rocket fails and falls within what Japan considers Japan Air Space, then it is a legitimate target).

As to this being a ballistic Missile, till the Space Shuttle, NASA (except for the Apollo program) used NOTHING BUT BALLISTIC MISSILES to launch its satellites and man missions. The Mercury Missions used Red-stone and later Atlas Missiles, the Gemini program used Titan II missiles, all originally designed as ballistics missiles. Given the weight of Hydrogen bombs, taking a man into orbit was easy, for the man and Oxygen to keep him alive was lighter. The biggest factor was reentry and that delayed most space missions and even the use of ballistics missiles until a way was found to protect them during reentry. Once the problems of reentry was solved, the use of ballistics missiles came into widespread use along with man space flight (digital transmission of data from spy Satellites till the 1980 was NOT possible so film was used, which had to be recovered via reentry of the film canister, this was the same technology as needed by ballistics missiles and manned rockets. With the arrived of very high quality digital transmission in the 1980s, data transmissions of the photos became the norm and the need for reentry disappeared, but prior to that reentry was an essential part of even a spy satellite).

I being this up for whatever missile is capable of putting into space a camera that can take photo on the ground, the lens itself is massive, and can be again the size of a man. You can use digital enhancement of photos, if the photos themselves have the required level of data points to enhance, but to have photos with the required data points requires a good and massive lens, which are large and "Heavy" for rockets. Thus a rocket that can launch a photo Satellite or most other satellites can also launch an atomic or hydrogen bomb.

Thus the claim that this rocket, if successful, shows Korea can Launch and land an atomic weapon anywhere in the world, but so can Japan, Israel, Iran, and the Ukraine, all of whom have launched Satellites into space (Ukraine from Russia in 1992 when they were on more friendly terms) in addition to the declared nuclear powers of the US, Russia, China, Britain, France and India. Just because you can does not mean you will or even want to for that is a different question all together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_first_orbital_launches_by_country
 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
4. Finding a legal justification is simple
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 07:22 AM
Feb 2016

Call it protecting an ally and move on. Or some other reason. If it is a real threat, then finding the legal justification is a matter of semantics.

EX500rider

(10,858 posts)
6. "On what LEGAL grounds?" because of UN sanctions.
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 02:14 PM
Feb 2016
The United Nations Security Council has adopted four major resolutions since 2006 that impose and strengthen sanctions on North Korea for continuing to develop its nuclear weapons program and call on Pyongyang to dismantle its nuclear program “in a complete, verifiable, and irreversible manner" and refrain from ballistic missile tests.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/UN-Security-Council-Resolutions-on-North-Korea
 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
8. Those Sanctions are being applied and followed, no use of force is part of the Sanctions
Wed Feb 3, 2016, 11:14 PM
Feb 2016

Under the UN Treaty any use of FORCE must be approved by the Security Council. Yes, that was NOT done as to Iraq and NOT done as to Libya but it is still the law (and unlike Iraq and Libya, China is right next door to North Korea). Thus the Sanctions are valid but the use of force is not (Force MAY be used to enforce the Sanctions, but the Sanctions do NOT preclude actual launching of any missiles at anything from North Korea)

Four Resolutions have passed the the UN, here are the critical parts of each one:.

Resolution 1718:

8. Decides that:

(a) All Member States shall prevent the direct or indirect supply, sale or transfer to the DPRK, through their territories or by their nationals, or using their flag vessels or aircraft, and whether or not originating in their territories, of: (i) Any battle tanks, armoured combat vehicles, large calibre artillery systems, combat aircraft, attack helicopters, warships, missiles or missile
systems as defined for the purpose of the United Nations Register on Conventional Arms, or related materiel including spare parts, or items as determined by the Security Council or the Committee established by paragraph 12 below (the Committee);

(ii) All items, materials, equipment, goods and technology as set out in the lists in documents S/2006/814 and S/2006/815, unless within 14 days of adoption of this resolution the Committee has amended or completed their provisions also taking into account the list in document S/2006/816, as well as other items, materials, equipment, goods and technology, determined by the S/RES/1718 (2006) 06-57207 3 Security Council or the Committee, which could contribute to DPRK’s nuclear-related, ballistic missile-related or other weapons of mass destructionrelated programmes

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/1718.pdf


In 2009 Resolution 1874 was added with the following restrictions:

8. Decides that the DPRK shall abandon all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs in a complete, verifiable and irreversible manner and immediately cease all related activities, shall act strictly in accordance with the obligations applicable to parties under the NPT and the terms and conditions of the IAEA Safeguards Agreement (IAEA INFCIRC/403) and shall provide the IAEA transparency measures extending beyond these requirements, including such access to individuals, documentation, equipment and facilities as may be required and deemed necessary by the IAEA;


9. Decides that the measures in paragraph 8 (b) of resolution 1718 (2006) shall also apply to all arms and related materiel, as well as to financial transactions, technical training, advice, services or assistance related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance or use of such arms or materiel;


10. Decides that the measures in paragraph 8 (a) of resolution 1718 (2006) shall also apply to all arms and related materiel, as well as to financial transactions, technical training, advice, services or assistance related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance or use of such arms, except for small arms and light weapons and their related materiel, and calls upon States to exercise vigilance over the direct or indirect supply, sale or transfer to the DPRK of small arms or light weapons, and further decides that States shall notify the Committee at least five days prior to selling, supplying or transferring small arms or light weapons to the DPRK;

http://www.cfr.org/proliferation/un-security-council-resolution-1874-north-korea/p19625


In 2013 Resolution 2087 was passed adding a list of businesses that are banned and people banned from leaving Korea.

http://www.un.org/press/en/2013/sc10891.doc.htm

Resolution 2094 added more names to the ban lists and added a ban on any financial agency dealing with North Korea OR permitting North Korea business to do business in any other nation.

http://www.securitycouncilreport.org/atf/cf/%7B65BFCF9B-6D27-4E9C-8CD3-CF6E4FF96FF9%7D/s_res_2094.pdf

NOTICE NO AUTHORIZATION TO USE FORCE.

List of UN resolutions on North Korea:

http://www.securitycouncilreport.org/un-documents/dprk-north-korea/

UN Security Council reports from 2008 onward on North Korea:

http://www.securitycouncilreport.org/dprk-north-korea/
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