Brexit against Scotland's wishes would 'almost certainly' trigger independence referendum
Source: The Independent
A vote to leave the European Union against Scotland's wishes would "almost certainly" trigger another independence referendum, Nicola Sturgeon has warned.
The Scottish First Minister and SNP leader said if England voted to leave the EU while Scotland voted to remain there would be an "inescapable" shift in public opinion towards independence to guarantee the countrys continued EU membership.
"I think that would be the demand of people in Scotland, she told the BBC.
"Let me say very clearly that I don't want this scenario to arise. I hope the UK as a whole votes to stay in the EU for a whole variety of different reasons.
Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-scottish-independence-vote-nicola-sturgeon-a6887366.html
Response to MowCowWhoHow III (Original post)
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Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Angel Martin
(942 posts)who is opposed to Brexit because... it will lead to Scottish separation ?
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)and that is the feeling of the average Scot, too.
eg
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/fbcf81e4dd2761d48aba0b6da/files/Voting_15thFeb16_pv.pdf
Britain: remain 43%, leave 39%; Scotland: remain 54%, leave 35%
or
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Polls/political-monitor-feb-2016-tables.pdf
Britain: remain 51%, leave 36%; Scotland: remain 72%, leave 19%
The SNP were always clear they wanted an independent Scotland inside the EU. A lot of the argument over Scottish independence was whether Scotland would have to re-apply to join the EU, or if it could continue membership from the British one.
LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)Whether as part of the UK, or as an independent state.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Pretty much since the last election if not before.
pampango
(24,692 posts)And well she should. That is the same reason that the Labour Party and the Trades Union Congress oppose Brexit.
"For me these are parts of the reasons for being in the EU, and one of the reasons why it would worry me greatly if the UK was to come out of the EU, as we would then have David Cameron's majority Conservative government unfettered when it came to employment rights or social protections."
Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said: ... "The EU referendum campaign must not be used as a proxy campaign for independence. The EU debate deserves a laser-like focus, just like the independence debate. With economic, social and security benefits, the European Union is good for the UK."
Those damn liberals in Scotland. Don't they understand that the Cameron's Conservatives (not to mention UKIP) just want protect the UK's sovereignty for the good of the British people? The Tories are certainly not interested in cutting labor rights and social protections that are guaranteed by the EU, are they?
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)They won't that you for it. The Liberals, along with Labour and the Tories were wiped out in the last General election. And after Clegg's snide alliance with the Tories, and breaking of a "solemn promise" on tuition fees, "Liberal" is very much a dirty word over here, (not just in Scotland.)
The total impact of the Tory/Liberal tax, welfare and public spending changes has hit the poorest 10% in society disproportionately hard - and women have been affected even more badly than men.
Nicola Sturgeon
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)Scotland is part of the UK. The UK is part of the EU.
If Great Britain leaves, Scotland could play on the same level as other EU-members.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)In a deranged dream of going back to the "old days". Virtually nobody under the age of 60 wants to leave the EU.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)They think they actually have a say in this.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)and to win an election, a party would have to promise to implement the result. To call it 'non-binding' would be highly misleading. Like calling the US electoral college 'non-binding'.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)There will be no exit from the EU. Period.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)Cameron won't be able to say "the referendum voted to leave, but business doesn't want to, so we won't". I don't know why you're trying to provide an example of something misleading about the referendum, but it isn't helping.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)But that is the way it is.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)You're pretending you know more about UK politics than everyone in the UK.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)The referendum is non binding. If Cameron and his buddies wanted to ignore it, they could.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)That's why I compared it to the US electoral college. Legally, the electors can decide to vote for the other candidate. But they don't (unless it's one person who wants a moment of meaningless fame before his party stops trusting him ever again), because they have a vague idea of democracy. And a PM would not survive ignoring this referendum.
Calling it 'non-binding' gives completely the wrong idea, and you should stop it.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)the question of which side "big money" is on is a good one. Since Cameron's deal with the EU would preserve free trade with Europe while weakening labor and social protections, "big money" should be quite happy with Brexit.
LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)They can influence the media and try to buy the vote, but they cannot actually prevent Brexit if the population votes for it.
And not all 'big money' will want to stay in the EU - far from it, in fact. Some big businesses would do better without the EU restrictions; some would do better with the EU connections. Indeed much of our corporate media is very much on the Leave side, which indicates where at least some groups and individuals think that their bread is buttered.
The Conservative Party - which generally sympathizes with 'big money' and indeed depends on it for donations - is split on the issue: apparently about 50-50 within Parliament; predominantly pro-Brexit among the non-Parliamentary membership.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)35-44 remain 67%, leave 25%; 45-54 remain 38% leave 41%
http://www.tnsglobal.co.uk/sites/tns-uk/files/EU%20referendum%20tables%2019.02.2016.pdf
25-34 remain 38%, leave 26%; 35-44 remain 31% leave 36%
http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/Voting_15thFeb16_pv.pdf
25-34 remain 38% leave 31%; 35-64 remain 38% leave 42%
http://www.comres.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/ITV-News_EU-Referendum-Poll_15-February-2016.pdf
45-54 remain 49% leave 40%; 55-64 remain 42% leave 47%
LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)You are correct that older people are more Eurosceptic, but it is certainly not the case that all younger Brits are pro-EU.
It has to be remembered that while nostalgia and 'right little, tight little island' isolationism do contribute to Euroscepticism, probably the biggest driving force is a suspicion and fear of immigration, always common in England (especially in areas where there in fact very few immigrants) and whipped by the pseudo-populist right-wing media.
It should also be remembered that even among likely Remain voters such as myself, enthusiasm for the EU is not as strong in the UK as in many Europaean countries. The EU is often considered (with some justification IMO) to be over-bureaucratic, over-centralized, and to have too many officials and MEPs riding a gravy train. However, in our opinion these considerations are outweighed by the likely negative economic repercussions of Brexit; by the increasing ugly and racist agendas of many promoting the Leave side; and by the thought of our getting caught up in the machinations of non-EU leaders' agendas - including, I have to say, possible future Republican presidents.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Enough, FFS!
LeftishBrit
(41,208 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)We went through this the first time. Any EU country can veto a prospective new member. In this case, the most likely candidate would be Spain, which might well see Scottish independence as encouraging their own separatist-minded Basques and Catalans.
Warpy
(111,274 posts)has shown that most of them want to stay in the EU. A lot of the reasons cited are convenience reasons and the ability to pay less for tariff free goods from the continent. They especially like being able to cross national borders in the quicker "EU" queue.