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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:19 PM Feb 2016

Justice Thomas asks questions in court, 1st time in 10 years

Source: AP

WASHINGTON (AP) — Justice Clarence Thomas has asked questions during a Supreme Court argument for the first time in 10 years.

Thomas’ questions came Monday in case in which the court is considering placing new limits on the reach of a federal law that bans people convicted of domestic violence from owning guns.

Thomas asked the Justice Department lawyer defending the government’s prosecution whether the violation of any other law suspends a person’s constitutional rights.

It was the second week the court has heard arguments since the death of Justice Antonin Scalia, Thomas’ friend and fellow conservative.


Read more: http://wtop.com/politics/2016/02/justice-thomas-asks-questions-in-court-1st-time-in-10-years/

77 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Justice Thomas asks questions in court, 1st time in 10 years (Original Post) n2doc Feb 2016 OP
Was it "Where's mah man tony?" TheCowsCameHome Feb 2016 #1
Yeah probably 47of74 Feb 2016 #19
That's a little bit racist don't you think? Press Virginia Feb 2016 #57
No way Liberty Sage Mar 2016 #74
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2016 #75
Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #73
I always wondered if Scalia had him under his thumb. flor-de-jasmim Feb 2016 #2
Two words: Lap Dog. Raster Feb 2016 #22
That's the republican party rockfordfile Mar 2016 #64
Scalia had two votes. eom Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #29
I still maintain that Slappy is merely COLGATE4 Feb 2016 #3
I bet he doesn't care choie Feb 2016 #4
+1 2naSalit Feb 2016 #5
The point of his question has merit: Big_Mike Feb 2016 #41
The question was losing a constitutional right for a misdemeanor - imagine if you lost the vote Yo_Mama Feb 2016 #43
I suspect that his senior clerk wrote the questions and Thomas NCjack Feb 2016 #6
I wonder what that unqualified lightweight had to say bluestateguy Feb 2016 #7
Amazing, Kelvin Mace Feb 2016 #8
You win the Internets today! nt msanthrope Feb 2016 #11
DUzy nt Flying Squirrel Feb 2016 #32
I'm no clarence thomas... getagrip_already Feb 2016 #9
He also questioned "misdemeanor assault" TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #21
No, you are no Clarence Thomas. former9thward Feb 2016 #33
missed that, but here goes.... getagrip_already Feb 2016 #36
I wonder what the lawyer's answer was? former9thward Feb 2016 #37
one report... getagrip_already Feb 2016 #39
Thanks! former9thward Feb 2016 #40
Misdemeanors are only a year in jail. There is no third strike law Press Virginia Feb 2016 #53
Really? A sixth grader can answer which misdemeanor convinctions lead to merrily Feb 2016 #48
That is what the poster said that I was replying to. former9thward Mar 2016 #62
But this is not a felony charge. If the court is going to support this, they'd better Yo_Mama Feb 2016 #44
one should never lose rights over a misdemeanor Press Virginia Feb 2016 #54
Terrible article, here's one which gives detail Yo_Mama Feb 2016 #50
.. Liberal_in_LA Feb 2016 #10
Everyone here had interesting comments to make but yours is more succinct. randome Feb 2016 #12
He has very, very rarely deviated from Scalia,but Scalia's not there. merrily Feb 2016 #13
Like a compass without a magnetic pull. randome Feb 2016 #14
Again: Two Words: Lap Dog. Raster Feb 2016 #23
What is your definition of "very, very rarely deviated" former9thward Feb 2016 #35
A raw number doesn't tell the story. When it was an important isssue, a landmark case, merrily Feb 2016 #47
Like how you moved the goalposts. former9thward Mar 2016 #61
I didn't move a thing. I said why the raw number you provided did not tell the whole story. merrily Mar 2016 #63
I don't like racist comments about Thomas. former9thward Mar 2016 #68
Saying Thomas voted with Scalia often is racist? Are you effing kidding? merrily Mar 2016 #69
Cut and paste to where I said that. former9thward Mar 2016 #70
You post to me about racist comments and that is NOT supposed to indicate I made any? merrily Mar 2016 #71
Justice Thomas wasn't aware some states take away a persons right to vote? did I read this wrong? Sunlei Feb 2016 #15
just another low information Supreme Court justice. Kip Humphrey Feb 2016 #38
Yes, you did. A felony charge and a misdemeanor charge are quite different in legal consequences. Yo_Mama Feb 2016 #46
Thank you. I believe family violence should be a Felony charge rather then a slap on the wrist. Sunlei Feb 2016 #59
For misdemeanor convictions? Press Virginia Feb 2016 #55
change domestic violence charges from misdemeanor to felony level. Wife beaters get a pass in the US Sunlei Mar 2016 #65
In this case the comvictions were for simple assault Press Virginia Mar 2016 #66
Is it a Constitutional Right to vote? Downwinder Feb 2016 #16
So tie the two together. Once you are 21, if you cannot possess a firearm you cannot vote. Also, if 24601 Feb 2016 #24
I was thinking more of the suspension Downwinder Feb 2016 #26
Misdemeanors aren't felonies Press Virginia Feb 2016 #56
Did someone check Autumn Colors Feb 2016 #17
"Where am I?" "What's happening?" "How am I supposed to vote?" Fozzledick Feb 2016 #18
Maybe he thinks he's communing with Scalia from beyond 47of74 Feb 2016 #20
ROBERTS: What? — Clarence, you’re not mute! Why NCjack Feb 2016 #25
Now, now people we need to be gentle with Thomas. Afterall its going to take him time cstanleytech Feb 2016 #27
Shouldn't someone who knows the law be on the bench instead of this moron? nt valerief Feb 2016 #28
Simply incredible tabasco Feb 2016 #30
For any interested in the REASONS for his silence, elleng Feb 2016 #31
I get the idea his mind is always already made up. Cavallo Feb 2016 #34
Scalia was his puppeteer Skittles Feb 2016 #42
who woke him up? olddad56 Feb 2016 #45
and it was a great question...surprise surprise. ileus Feb 2016 #49
Wow, that didn't take long! Reter Feb 2016 #51
did they have to adjourn so Thomas could recover from the stress and trauma? rurallib Feb 2016 #52
Thomas now has to cut his own food, too. How sad. leveymg Feb 2016 #58
GARBO TALKS !!! no_hypocrisy Feb 2016 #60
Domestic Violence would be the determing factor for me. When a person has proved they are patricia92243 Mar 2016 #67
Only a misdemeanor Liberty Sage Mar 2016 #72
Thomas is clearly trolling-he timed it to be the 1st time in 10y almost to the date nt TheDormouse Mar 2016 #76
So Scalia is gone and he finally speaks up. Now he has to think for himself. brush Mar 2016 #77

Response to Press Virginia (Reply #57)

Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #1)

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
3. I still maintain that Slappy is merely
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:22 PM
Feb 2016

an animatronic, a Disney reject that Scalia and now Alito use for support.

choie

(4,111 posts)
4. I bet he doesn't care
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:23 PM
Feb 2016

If people convicted of felonies lose their constitutional right to vote...but the right to own a gun? Sacred!!!

Big_Mike

(509 posts)
41. The point of his question has merit:
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 06:12 PM
Feb 2016

for what other MISDEMEANOR does a person lose a constitutional right? Felonies are one thing, misdemeanors an entirely other thing. So you don't pay a speeding ticket, do you lose the right to vote for lifetime? Nope. Does mouthing off to a cop mean you've lost your freedom of speech and right to assemble? Don't think so. You may or may not like the subject; many of us disagree on this particular subject. But the underlying point is completely valid.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
43. The question was losing a constitutional right for a misdemeanor - imagine if you lost the vote
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:40 PM
Feb 2016

over a traffic ticket?

Legally, it is a point that has merit.

Think about the precedent.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
6. I suspect that his senior clerk wrote the questions and Thomas
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:27 PM
Feb 2016

read them at loud. After the hearing, the clerk explained the answers to him.

getagrip_already

(14,838 posts)
9. I'm no clarence thomas...
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:30 PM
Feb 2016

But really..

Can a person convicted of a felony (say armed robbery):

- own (or even handle) a firearm?
- vote?
- Enjoy freedom of movement? Association? unfettered free speech?
- In the case of the death penalty, live?

There are probably a LOT of cases where a violation of a law suspends constitutional rights.....

10 years to pose a question and he picks one a sixth grader could answer? Can we have him evaluated for Alzheimer?

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
21. He also questioned "misdemeanor assault"
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 01:29 PM
Feb 2016

What other misdemeanor charges bring about the loss of a constitutional right?

It's a legitimate question, imo.

former9thward

(32,082 posts)
33. No, you are no Clarence Thomas.
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:50 PM
Feb 2016

He asked about misdemeanors -- not felonies. What misdemeanor convictions lead to a loss of Constitutional rights? Since a sixth grader can answer this, let's hear your answer....

getagrip_already

(14,838 posts)
36. missed that, but here goes....
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:56 PM
Feb 2016

You can lose your rights to vote, or to a gun, for the duration of your incarceration or parole. Generally not longer for a misdemeanor, but some states may allow it.

Also, if it's your third misdemeanor, in a lot of states it gets treated as though it was a felony for sentencing, and also loss of rights.

Again, I ain't no lawyer and I'm not playing one here.

I did miss the part about him limiting it to a misdemeanor, so apologies for that.

getagrip_already

(14,838 posts)
39. one report...
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:16 PM
Feb 2016
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-justice-thomas-speaks-20160229-story.html

But Thomas peppered Eisenstein with several questions about Second Amendment gun rights, a topic no other justice had asked about. He noted that the law allows someone convicted of a misdemeanor assault charge to get a lifetime ban on possessing a gun "which at least as of now results in suspension of a constitutional right."

"The suspension is not directly related to the use of a weapon?" Thomas asked.

Eisenstein said he was correct, but that Congress passed the law to prevent people accused of domestic violence from later using weapons against a family member. She noted that violating other laws can in some cases limit a person's free speech rights. Thomas then asked how long the suspension of the right to own a firearm lasts.

Eisenstein said it was indefinite.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
48. Really? A sixth grader can answer which misdemeanor convinctions lead to
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:08 PM
Feb 2016

loss of Constitutional rights?

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
44. But this is not a felony charge. If the court is going to support this, they'd better
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:48 PM
Feb 2016

differentiate it sharply from other constitutional rights.

Otherwise how many people in a Ferguson-type neighborhood are going to be left with voting rights?

There is a huge, huge difference between losing your vote for armed robbery versus losing it for getting arrested for disturbing the peace in a demonstration. Wouldn't you agree?

I think you are missing the entire point here.


 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
54. one should never lose rights over a misdemeanor
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:44 PM
Feb 2016

What's next, losing free speech rights over disorderly conduct....which is the usual charge protestors are hit with when they fail to comply with the police

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
50. Terrible article, here's one which gives detail
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:30 PM
Feb 2016
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/for-first-time-in-10-years-justice-thomas-asksquestions-during-argument/2016/02/29/b47f2558-df00-11e5-846c-10191d1fc4ec_story.html?tid=pm_local_pop_b
Monday’s case involved a federal law that bans people convicted of domestic violence from owning a gun. The specific question was whether a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction based on “recklessness” was enough to trigger the ban on gun ownership.
...
“Ms. Eisenstein, just one question,” Thomas said. “Can you give me — this is a misdemeanor violation. It suspends a constitutional right. Can you give me another area where a misdemeanor violation suspends a constitutional right?”


This is one aspect of the case. And however the court decides, if they allow this to stand I hope they are very careful to ensure that they are not establishing a precedent that allows people to lose other constitutional rights for charges this minor, with this little legal protection against miscarriages of justice.

When a felon loses his/her right to vote or bear arms, that's one thing. But do you want individuals to lose these rights for petty infractions? The argument in this case is that the conduct was reckless, not intentional, so that's why there's all the common law stuff earlier.

The case is Voisine V United States.
The link to the oral argument transcript is here:
http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/14-10154_5i36.pdf


Notice that Justice Breyer gets interested after Thomas' line of questioning (as does Kennedy). Breyer picks it up with:
JUSTICE BREYER: Do it ­­ what is it we
have ­­ they raised this in their brief. They say,
let's focus on the cases in which there is a misdemeanor
battery conducted without an intentional or knowing
state of mind.
Now, they say if this, in fact, triggers ­­
this is the question Justice Thomas asked ­­ if this, in
fact, triggers a lifetime ban on the use of a gun, then
do we not have to decide something we haven't decided?
And I think it would be a major question.
What constitutes a reasonable regulation of
guns under the Second Amendment given Heller and the
other cases with which I disagreed? But ­­
(Laughter.)
JUSTICE BREYER: ­­ the point is, she's
raised a question, and she wants us to answer that
question. Is this a reasonable regulation given ­­ you
just heard the argument, in part ­­ given the distance
and so forth? So what am I supposed to say, in your
opinion, in respect to that rather important question?


Breyer eventually ends up saying we don't have to decide the constitutional question in this case, so let's avoid it. We can just make it a textual interpretation.
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
12. Everyone here had interesting comments to make but yours is more succinct.
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:37 PM
Feb 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
14. Like a compass without a magnetic pull.
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:44 PM
Feb 2016

Like a tail without a dog. Like a camera without film. No, actually nothing's changed, he's still just an idiot.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

former9thward

(32,082 posts)
35. What is your definition of "very, very rarely deviated"
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:56 PM
Feb 2016

Scalia and Thomas agree 78% of the time. Scalia and Ginsberg agree 58% of the time.

http://www.scotusblog.com/statistics/

merrily

(45,251 posts)
47. A raw number doesn't tell the story. When it was an important isssue, a landmark case,
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:05 PM
Feb 2016

he and Scalia were usually together in the result, whether in the same opinion or a concurrence. I've never seen a lawyer on any board or anywhere question that. And 80% overall ain't "seldom" anyway.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
63. I didn't move a thing. I said why the raw number you provided did not tell the whole story.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 01:17 AM
Mar 2016

I like how sensitive you are about things said about Clarence Thomas on this thread, though.

former9thward

(32,082 posts)
68. I don't like racist comments about Thomas.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:50 AM
Mar 2016

Attack him for his views not his race. Many on the left say the same exact things about Thomas -- using the same exact words -- as did the right when they attacked Justice Thurgood Marshall.

Despite your dismissive words all SC cases are important and all are landmarks. If they weren't they would not be heard by the court.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
69. Saying Thomas voted with Scalia often is racist? Are you effing kidding?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:56 AM
Mar 2016

Of all the fake claims I've seen on this board, that one may just take the fucking cake.

former9thward

(32,082 posts)
70. Cut and paste to where I said that.
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 11:59 AM
Mar 2016

Do you approve of posts in this thread using black dialect to make fun of Thomas? Or the many other posts in this thread saying that he is unable to think?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
71. You post to me about racist comments and that is NOT supposed to indicate I made any?
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 12:06 PM
Mar 2016

Stop it. Just stop it. If you post to me about something, OF COURSE, I am going to assume you mean my posts.

I didn't read this thread, let alone "approve" of all the posts of other people you are describing to me. If you think someone else made a racist post, complain to the people you think made them. I had nothing to do with any racism in any post and you know it. Stop associating other people's post with me and implying I approve. Just stop.

Your posts have always been too far to the right for my tastes, but I didn't realize you'd go this low. What utter, deceptive crap.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
15. Justice Thomas wasn't aware some states take away a persons right to vote? did I read this wrong?
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 01:04 PM
Feb 2016

WTF?

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
46. Yes, you did. A felony charge and a misdemeanor charge are quite different in legal consequences.
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:51 PM
Feb 2016

Previously the SC has said that there is something of a constitutional right to bear arms. This case is about deprivation of that right for a misdemeanor charge RATHER THAN A FELONY CHARGE.

In most cases, you don't even have the right to jury trial for a misdemeanor charge. The requirement to get an indictment isn't there. The penalties are much less - but being deprived of a constitutional right for a lifetime is not really a light penalty.

No one is questioning that felons lose the right to have guns.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
59. Thank you. I believe family violence should be a Felony charge rather then a slap on the wrist.
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 11:25 PM
Feb 2016

Those cases need a Jury trial and a Judge to set limits on tools of violence, treatment and support for the family.

Still, I think it's unconstitutional to deprive anyone of their right to vote even when actually in prison.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
66. In this case the comvictions were for simple assault
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 03:56 AM
Mar 2016

based on the story I don't think a felony would be warranted.

Given the DV rate is higher amongst non whites, I don't think it would do much to end the incarceration of people of color since felonies mean jail time

24601

(3,962 posts)
24. So tie the two together. Once you are 21, if you cannot possess a firearm you cannot vote. Also, if
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 01:55 PM
Feb 2016

you cannot vote, then you cannot posses a firearm.

Since you are hotting hot buttons that not always, but generally fall on different sides of political mid-spectrum, this is an area for potential compromise.

 

Press Virginia

(2,329 posts)
56. Misdemeanors aren't felonies
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 10:50 PM
Feb 2016

Felons are stripped of their rights. A misdemeanor is only punishable with a year in jail or a fine up to $1000.
Reckless driving is a misdemeanor in some states. In VA any speed over 80, even in a 75mph zone, is reckless driving.

I have an A&B conviction as the result of a fight, in college, with a much larger guy. I threw the first punch and that was enough. This law would treat me like a felon 25 years after my conviction...which resulted in a $200 fine

 

47of74

(18,470 posts)
20. Maybe he thinks he's communing with Scalia from beyond
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 01:27 PM
Feb 2016

Or some such? After all the Republicans think Scalia can vote in court decisions even though he's dead.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
25. ROBERTS: What? — Clarence, you’re not mute! Why
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 01:59 PM
Feb 2016

have you waited 10 years to speak?
THOMAS: Well, up to now, everything been OK. Tony told me since I was the new guy, he would speak for both of us.
ROBERTS: So, with Tony gone, you don’t feel inhibited?
THOMAS: Well yes, that’s right. Also, I’ve taken off the cord that Tony tied around my balls. When I looked anxious like I was about to speak, Tony would signal me to be quiet by tugging it.

cstanleytech

(26,319 posts)
27. Now, now people we need to be gentle with Thomas. Afterall its going to take him time
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 02:03 PM
Feb 2016

to learn to think on his own now that Scalia isnt there to do it for him.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
30. Simply incredible
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 02:56 PM
Feb 2016

that such an apathetic, disinterested, partisan asshole could sit on our highest court.

elleng

(131,126 posts)
31. For any interested in the REASONS for his silence,
Mon Feb 29, 2016, 03:27 PM
Feb 2016

and a discussion of the questions and issues in the case today:

'He has offered shifting reasons for his 10 years of silence. In his 2007 memoir, “My Grandfather’s Son,” he wrote that he had never asked questions in college or law school and that he had been intimidated by some of his fellow students.

He has also said he is self-conscious about the way he speaks, partly because he had been teased about the dialect he grew up speaking in rural Georgia.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/01/us/politics/supreme-court-clarence-thomas.html?

patricia92243

(12,601 posts)
67. Domestic Violence would be the determing factor for me. When a person has proved they are
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 09:08 AM
Mar 2016

violent, I hate to think they have a gun.

To compare a parking ticket to Domestic Violence does seem to be a complete comparison to me.

Liberty Sage

(14 posts)
72. Only a misdemeanor
Tue Mar 1, 2016, 02:13 PM
Mar 2016

No felon can legally own a gun. Make domestic violence convictions a felony and it won't be an issue.

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