If you're ever going to be a criminal somewhere, make sure you do it in Norway...

That's a new human right?

Comes out to around 3 months per life. With PlayStation.

Which sometimes means a more severe sentence.

In all likelihood he will never be released, but must be reevaluated at no more than 21 years.

Their system is basically the reverse of ours. In America, if someone commits a terrible offense at 18, and at 48 is fully reformed and no longer any danger to society, we keep them in prison anyway because the low-IQ "revenge=justice" types think that's "fair".

In Norway, the courts cannot sentence anyone to more than 21 years in prison. BUT. And this is a huge "but". At the end of that 21 years, he can be re-evaluated. If he's still found to harbor the same beliefs and is still considered even a slight danger to society, his imprisonment can be extended again, and again, and again. That 21 years could easily become a life sentence if he doesn't reform.

In America, prison is a tool used to punish people. In Norway, prison is a tool used to protect society. The differing goals leads to differing approaches to sentencing.

The court decided in favor of the plaintiff on the issue regarding the European Convention of Human Rights, article 3. This relates to "inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".

The verdict says regarding article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights: "The prohibition of inhuman and degrading treatment represents a fundamental value in a democratic society. This applies no matter what - also in the treatment of terrorists and killers."

from whining about not getting the latest video games violating his human rights. That you can support bullshit like that and compare it to vigilante justice is your problem.

And so is the Norwegian justice system. What bullshit!

And the treatment Hillary would subject to Edward Snowden if he should ever dare to face American "Justice"....

At least we Norwegians can be proud of our moral compass and follow our principles over feelings.¨
But on the other hand, there are many things I am ashamed of my countrymen over. The notion of entitlement and discard for human life outside Europe or poor brown people from Romania sitting on the street with a cup.

Neither am I proud of our backwards drug policies that our authoritarian prohibitionists have been pushing the last 50 years. Our first court case including "drugs" was against an American student and poet who once shared a joint at a party in 1965. He was married with kids in Norway. Our government deported him.

Since then our drug cases has increased to more than 40 000 drug cases a year.

I am not proud of my government's involvement in the "war on terror" where we have wasted tax payer money on American war adventures from Afghanistan to Libya.

And we cuddle our terrorists while deporting traumatized single mothers and young women who came here before they came of age. with their parents.

Got some old articles on some of the issues I am not proud of my government over.

https://bohemianwriter1.wordpress.com/2010/09/18/roma-an-eternal-reminder-of-europes-shame/

https://bohemianwriter1.wordpress.com/2010/03/20/norwegian-shame/

https://bohemianwriter1.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/norwegian-shame-once-again/

https://bohemianwriter1.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/special-comment-and-follow-up/


https://bohemianwriter1.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/a-disgusting-display-of-power-abuse-and-lack-of-reality-cannabis-users-in-the-danger-zone-watch-out-if-youre-a-parent/

I wrote some of these articles while living in Ireland, Malta and England as a migrant IT worker.

From what I can remember, the American Constitution talks slightly about "cruel and unusual punishment". Isn't that amendment violated on a daily basis against small time pot dealers, whistle blowers and people who forgot to pay a parking ticket 10 years ago in the "Land of the Free"?

Our own RWers wants to copy whatever penal policies American neocons and "centrists" have imposed the last 40 years.

You think that would be a good idea?

between cruel and unusual punishment and making sure someone (a mass murderer no less) has the latest video games. Does that answer your question?

That Norway does not inflict cruel and unusual punishment on our own terrorist like you do with your whistleblowers who blew the lid off the crimes committed by the Bushies and covered up by Obama.

In this case, are you on the side of Chelsea Manning or with Obama?

Do you think that someone who exposed war crimes on film deserves punishment and not a medal?

You have even funded the unlawful Gitmo camp, torturing hundreds of innocent victims of your insane "war on terror".

Someting you'd like to own up to?

Ms. Manning broke the law and is being punished for that. I haven't funded a fucking thing at gitmo - my government has and our current President has outlawed torture. Now, want to explain why a mass murderer gets video games and gets to sue the taxpayers for a new one?

One can only imagine the excesses, the depravity and the degeneracy that will result from a video game allowed to a prisoner.

you would want cable tv, dvd's, perhaps a three room apartment - I mean none of those things would cause depravity, so why not? Holy shit, do you people even hear yourselves. He's a mass murderer of children and he's in PRISON.

Thanks.

I'm not embarrassed in the least. What I find embarrassing is DUers taking up for this mass murderer because he's being punished for murdering children. Poor baby. We have people right here in solitary for selling a joint and you want me to cry about a mass murderer? Not a fucking chance.

If you're not embarrassed, you should be. You accused me of making a gross non-comparison by making a disingenuous gross non-comparison. Now you tacitly admit the actual reason had exactly shit to do with a PlayStation, yet don't retract your "bullshit", and instead double down as if the crime makes something a human rights violation or not.

So yeah, just like I said originally, some people will use all sorts of "bullshit" to justify torture, and just won't be satisfied until they get their pound of flesh. You epitomize that mindset. So sure, accuse me of wanting to coddle mass murderers. What actually should be embarrassing to any DUer is that childish level of discourse just isn't any different from what you'll find on wingnut radio on any given day.

Some people won't be happy until we are allowed to hang people on the wall with shackles.

Then they wonder why people come out of prison all fucked up and dehumanized.

I've always thought we would be better off locking people in solitary but with limited access to read only Internet, books, maybe games, an actual bathroom and exercise equipment.

No more gangs in prison. No more abuse and victimization. No more guard injuries.

For one thing, it makes prisoners more violent and crazy. So unless you're willing to fund supermax level confinement (and the astronomical tax increases to finance it), then all the problems you mentioned are just going to get worse. Add to that expense the astronomical cost of treating all the mental illnesses that result, along with all the costs of increased crime due to recidivism which would inevitably result.

The reality is that most prisoners just aren't that violent in prison and there's no good reason to inflict psychological torture and a lot of good reasons why you shouldn't.

solitary, strip searches - everything he's complaining about is bullshit - not torture. He's in PRISON. For KILLING CHILDREN. Lots of children. I'll save my pity support for people who truly deserve it. And really? Comparing me to a wingnut? Good thing your opinion is worthless to me.

Those like Limbaugh and Cheney who pretend torture can be justified, not so much, YMMV.

in the least bit comparable to what this swine is whining about....unless you truly feel comfortable comparing waterboarding with solitary confinement (which is to keep his pathetic life safe). In which case your opinion is not worthy of my time.

It's easy to confuse "taking up for the prisoner" with a consistent and fair application of justice, regardless of poor babies and fucking chances.

Rational thought is not as difficult as may be imagined, and often allows a little rest from the ids melodramatic hyperbole.

the people in solitary for having a joint, for non-violent robbery, for anyone other than a mass murderer. I don't give a shit what happens to that vermin. Dying in prison is too good for him. That they can't put him away for life is only part of the problem there.

It's not a matter of confusion. The post I replied to was explicit about solitary confinement, yet we must somehow pretend this is all about a PlayStation. The only possible confusion appears to be substituting emotion for logic, but even then I don't think confusion is the most obvious explanation.

....in Scandinavian prisons.

The US just isn't that civilized. When you see how many people who are supposedly on the left cheering this kind of thing on, along with state sanctioned murder, it just isn't that hard to figure out why.

I'm sorry, I can't say I have any sympathy for this asshole.

So I just don't follow the logic. I don't really feel inclined to address any "sympathy" appeal to emotion fallacies. For those that think the US has a better idea of justice than Norway, I suggest they may want to apply different metrics.

I'd probably agree that the opposite is true.

I'm saying that the life of incarcerated persons in Norway is far better off than the US, regardless of the offense. For better or worse, that's an objective fact.

I'm not a sadist who wants prisoners to be tortured or humiliated or abused simply because they've committed crimes, including horrible crimes like rape and murder. That's not what I think the penal system should be all about. I'm also 100% very vociferously against the death penalty, with no exceptions. I believe the purpose of incarceration should be geared more towards quiet personal reflection, not for retribution or flawed notions of eye-for-eye "justice".

But still, perspective must be taken.

There are people in the US who have either been falsely convicted or who's punishment is far excessive considering the crime, who would gladly trade their situation for that of Brevik's.

So I'm not going to cry a single tear for Brevik in Norway knowing that in my own country we have people on death row, we have people incarcerated who are being abused by both fellow inmates and guards, and we have means of incarceration that are far more dehumanizing that anything Brevik could ever claim.

I can simultaneously condemn indefinite solitary confinement for no good reason is wrong no matter where it occurs. It doesn't really matter who you do it to either. Treating people worse than animals has fully predictable results, all of which are negative. If you can justify doing it to Brevik, you can justify doing it to anyone else who is incarcerated. The practice is widely accepted as torture, and while the US is certainly an embarrassment compared to the rest of the civilized world, neither should anyone else get a pass simply because the rest of their prison conditions aren't as barbaric.

He's not being sent to the box and deprived of his senses.

He's got a spacious three cell set-up with access to movies and video games.

It's solitary confinement in the sense he's kept apart from the rest of the population, but in no way is it remotely comparable to what solitary confinement means in US prisons.

It's an absolute apples to oranges situation and in no way to I feel even remotely sorry for him.

As most animals are as social as humans, in most instances it would constitute animal cruelty if they were.

It wouldn't mater if Breivik was given a palace with gold plated toilets and Swedish penis enlargers. Solitary confinement still leads to adverse psychological effects which still amounts to torture. No amount of apathy is going to change that.

It's not like he's completely isolated from the human world.

Given that he's arguably the most hated person in all of Norway, I don't know how much good interaction with the general population will do him, even with the generally progressive minded attitude of most Norwegians.

Seriously, do you honestly believe what you are saying, or are you just trolling at this point?

Because unlike me, you are trying to contradict the finding of an unbiased court and I'm pretty sure they had a pretty sound basis to support their opinion, which is also kind of the one that matters. I'm also pretty sure Norway is a lot closer to the rest of the civilized world on this subject compared to the US, probably because they actually hold themselves accountable for torture.

I'm also pretty sure most people in Norway could give a fuck less what anyone in the US thinks about this court's decision. If anyone disagrees with it, they probably ought to provide something that remotely resembles support for their assertion and as yet all I have seen are some pretty half-fast attempts.

to relieve him of the "torture" of solitary confinement? As much as he's hated, what's to stop that person from slitting his throat? Or given his neo-Nazi sympathies, what's to stop him from killing someone else? What do you say to the family of the victim?
This guy is a remorseless killer. The handcuffs when he's going between cells is to stop him from hurting someone else. The prison has an obligation to protect everyone in it. Would you want to sleep in a cell with him for a night? Unless you can answer "Hell yeah," then you can't expect anyone else to do so.

Yet you expect the government to provide this level in prison? That's ridiculous. State prisons in the US already have a lower murder rate than most cities.

A far more relevant question is do you want to live next to someone who has been in solitary confinement for the past 20 years. Unless you can answer "Hell yeah," then you can't expect anyone else to do so. How prisoners are treated in prison has a direct correlation to how they will act on the outside. The recidivism rate in Norway is 20%. In the US it's almost 80%. That doesn't happen by accident.

But you can sure as hell minimize the risks. There are some people that are absolutely dangerous. They like to hurt others. I think a guy that has killed 70+ people fits this description. And these people need to be controlled. I'm not talking about beating them or punishing them. I'm talking about making them keep their hands in sight. I'm talking about restricting their movements.
And as far as living next to someone that's been in solitary for the past 20 years, I can answer, no, I would not want to live next to him. Of course, I don't murder children, or anyone, really, so that's not a problem I'm going to ever have in my life.
And as far as getting out, this guy will never breathe free air again. Give him a Gameboy, and 3 squares a day, and wait for him to die.

I asked if you would want to live next to someone who had been in solitary for the last 20 years, which may be a problem you might have in your life and definitely one some people will have to deal with. Even if you could give a shit if criminals are tortured you should at least care about what might happen to those who inevitably have to live next to people who have been tortured and methodically unsocialized.

But I want the innocent people protected. And the less dangerous criminals. Someone in jail for check fraud shouldn't have to worry about his throat being cut while he's asleep by a double murderer.

Some prisoners do need solitary confinement to keep others safe, but this should be evaluated on the current risk that person presents, not what their risk was in a completely different set of circumstances. That's why prisoners are evaluated by professionals when they are incarcerated.

The unchecked use of solitary confinement as a method of punishment is making everyone less safe. It's a big part of the reason the US has more violent crime and much higher recidivism rates compared to virtually all other civilized nations. When your primary objective is punishment rather than rehabilitation, the results speak for themselves.

Which you would know, if you actually read the article.

He's not going to do well with the other prisoners. He's not a popular dude.

You have absolute power over the system. Paint me a picture of what conditions for this guy would be like. How would you protect society, the other prisoners that are under your charge, in this guy's civil rights all the same time. Also, how would you do it in a way that's fair for people that aren't in prison because, frankly, this guy is getting way more than most people in the US are getting.

arrest for animal cruelty a person who crammed 3 horses in a 9foot by 9foot stall.

System, because asshat is living a better life than I am. And I haven't murdered a bunch of kids. But no one would give a crap if I went to the UN complaining that my human rights are being violated.
He's complaining about being handcuffed and kept in solitary conditions. That's because no one wants to risk him violating anyone's right to not be murdered. Having the killer handcuffed is the lesser of the two evils.
So, again, how would you protect his rights and the lives of the other prisoners and guards, all at the same time? Make him pinky swear he won't slash anyone's throat?

And whines about "inhuman treatment"...A treatment far better than the treatment he would give others who don't fit into his RW Utopia..

would be perfectly safe in the gen pop of a Norwegian prison.

IIRC he dressed up as a cop and stalked these kids on an island.

Maybe he could talk about video games with the other prisoners.

What could go wrong?

He wants to start a Norwegian nazi party.

With a population of 5 million, I would bet that one out of every hundred Norwegians has some sort of connection to the victims or the victims' families.

It cannot be safe to put this guy, who is seriously obnoxious at best, in contact with a bunch of other prisoners.

I thought the max sentence for mass murder in Scandinavia was like a few months?

may he succeed in carrying it the logical conclusion.

I wonder if he cared about how he inhumanely treated/degraded all the people he killed?

BUT...Jesus H Christ!!

for mass murderers of the likes of Brevik

to eliminate the possibility of these idiotic lawsuits.

wait until he starts harassing the families of the victims.

you laugh, but it happened in Canada with the Olson case.

....but honestly, Norway's prisons amount to pretty much literally involuntary adult summer camps, and he should be thanking God that's the country where he's sent to prison and not some godforsaken hellhole.

And Breivik is a complete douchebag for even insinuating that his human rights are being violated.

Shut up and take your punishment, you right wing murderous asshole.

and books, toys idk what all else they occupy his time with.

I think "void" is cruel & unusual punishment. Like solitary. Idk enuf about sensory deprivation to comment further but I can imagine the impact on someone who's already insane.

It's humane to fill prisoner's time. The alternative would be to take away all privileges and toys, put a loaded gun in his cell and wait. What's the difference between that and the death penalty. One can argue the death penalty is more humane.

In light of his crimes, I would hope that he stays in prison forever. No one that murders so indiscriminately can ever be trusted.

We suck in many ways, not the least of which is how we treat prisoners. I wonder how our recidivism rate compares to Norway? I bet it's worse. When you warehouse people with no attempt at rehabilitation, that is what you get. Even liberals are way too bloodthirsty here. In many ways, the US is on par with Saudi Arabia and Iran, in terms of criminal justice. Needlessly punitive and cruel.