Last edited Wed Apr 20, 2016, 07:21 PM - Edit history (1)

will be affected by her support of H1B's?

Will they say anything when it happens?

barring a Zombie Apocalypse, most of these people are already political Zombies. Braindead.

Seen it happen repeatedly.

http://www.zdnet.com/pictures/h1b-visas-and-us-presidential-candidates-a-primer/4/


Hillary Clinton, Democratic nominee for president and a former Secretary of State, hasn't said a whole lot on H1Bs, at least in comparison to her Republican foes. In fact, she doesn't mention it at all in her immigration platform.

That's because Clinton is someone who tends to bend with the wind on this issue. In 2007, in a speech to top Silicon Valley executives, she was very clearly on the side of boosting H1B numbers. " I am reaffirming my commitment to the H1B visa and increasing the current cap. Foreign skilled workers contribute greatly to what we have to do in being innovators," she said to loud applause.

In 2003, she was clearly not hesitant to inaugurate the offices of India's Tata Consultancy Services in Buffalo, one of the major beneficiaries of H1Bs and IT outsourcing contracts from the US. Clinton was the key architect of the whole plan to bring business, and TCS, to the State of New York, at a time when the whole issue of outsourcing and H1Bs was gathering steam.

However, in 2009, when the US economy was in a tailspin thanks to the subprime mortgage fiasco and the Obama administration that could ill afford to push things like outsourcing, her position was far more cautious. "In a global recession, every country is going to want to make sure that we have enough jobs for our people," said Clinton, while visiting India. "So, we have to figure out how we're going to work together. Outsourcing is a concern for many communities and businesses in my country."

Asia's Largest Technology Firm Opens Office in Buffalo; Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton Bridges SUNY-Buffalo and TCS; Government And Business Leaders Gather at Dedication Ceremony

As if we IT people would have been perfectly fine with losing our jobs to Norwegians or Portuguese or whatever.

I feel it's not needed.

I live in SoCal, and I've seen some really good engineers,
I mean some of the best, go unemployed for almost 4 years.

I was out for 22 months from the end of 2008 into 2010.

What really bothers me about HRC's statements is that we never
needed H1B's when we developed the fastest most powerful
aircraft, or computers, or ... the list goes on.

Yet we need them now?

No, this is all about depressing wages, and making profits.

Agree 100%

Why is it only the worker bees who's jobs are outsourced? Certainly there are plenty of talented lower-paid Asian executives.

my company has been trying to hire engineers for quite a while. We almost always have a req. out there. There are technical jobs out there, for sure.

I see several things that keeps companies from hiring:
1) Companies no longer want to train new employees
They want a new hire to start producing the minute they arrive
at their workstation. So those new college graduates? You better have
some experience coming out of college before you even think about
entering the technical job market.

2) The candidates for any position has to match the job requirements 100%
If there are 10 job requirements, companies will not hire a candidate until
they find the person that matches all 10. 9 of 10 won't do, because then
the hiring company would have to spend money on #1) above, and that
can't happen.

3) The requirements are completely out of priority.
Candidates get passed over a position because they don't know a tool that is
used for the job. Forget the fact that they can get the job done, and they could
probably learn to use a job tool quickly, but they'll hire a person that has
little experience in that job, but they now how to use their tool!

4) The job requirement is not really for US Citizens.
I had a friend at Qualcomm here in San Diego, tell me that they would
post a job requirement in Podunk Times or Big Bear News, fully knowing
that engineers never look for positions in those publications. Then Q would
claim that the job was posted in US papers, but we never got any applications
from US candidates, so we need to find an H1B.
Why? Because all the other companies are doing the same thing.

5) [font color=red]They can't find a US engineer willing to accept the pay that is offered.[/font]
I used to get contract positions that range in the $50 - $75/hour.
When the H1B's hit full force, I started getting contract offers in the
$15 - $25/hour range. Granted $25/Hour is still $50K per year, but you
can see the depressed wages that is occurring.
Now Qualcomm has this concept of EXEMPT CONTRACTOR.
Where you work as a contractor, but get paid by the day, not the hour.
So Q will try to get you to work 10-12 hours and pay a day's wage instead
of being paid for each hour.
There's no such thing as an EXEMPT CONTRACTOR!!!
Then when they offer you a permanent position, it's 60% of the contractor wage.

We do a lot of government work that requires U.S. Citizenship, and pay rates are very good.

Most of us are salaried, rather than wage employees, but the company does not permit unpaid overtime as a matter of policy.

Let's put it this way, our STARTING salaries for engineers begin in $60K range and go up from there.

We do not employ temporary employees, except for short term consulting work (for example a project requiring domain expertise we do not have, and do not usually use)

You keep mentioning "my company", but no name.
Can you please supply?
Thanks in advance!

When Petroleum Engineers were in short supply globally their annual pay increased 8% a year. Which is in line with what Economics teaches about supply and demand. Wages should be doubling every 9 years if their is really a shortage. If it is artificial wages may do little more than keep pace with inflation.

Ask yourself do you really think there is no engineer in the county who could do the advertised job. If there is one then why is your firm not making an attractive enough offer for the engineer to relocate to work for your company?

Our raises are sometimes impeded, because we often are on government contracts, and the government has rate rules tied to the pay of government workers. I didn't get a raise last year because the government set a cap on rates for engineers in my labor category.

Economic Theory says that we should be seeing companies fighting to lure workers if their is a shortage of labor. Claims of salary caps and government limits don't coincide with being unable to complete the job for want of a qualified engineer to do it.

If the shortage is actual you should be able to walk next door for a 10% raise anytime you are seeing a salary cap.

immigration are all the same in that they provide jobs and a better life for POC from developing countries. I guess you could be called a racist for opposing any of them. On the other hand, all three have the same deleterious effects on the American worker in terms of lost jobs, making it harder to find a job, and depressed wages. All three also make the one percenters much richer due to the depressed wages and are a major reason for the growing gap between the rich and the poor and middle class.

Does the good outweigh the bad? I'm not sure.

develop and find them jobs. Charity begins at home.

One of those odd eccentricities of the human-- like religion, which dictates who is more deserving of charity predicated wholly on imaginary lines on a map.

Even many rational minds bow down before it without question. Magic thinking, indeed.

You don't want to have to depend on someone 8,000 miles away for things.

People who will never have to personally encounter a protest or revolt. It creates pressure for Free Trade Agreements which circumvent labor and environmental laws.

Offshore and foreign employees should not dominate the companies of any particular country.

working for U.S. companies, so, no, not all outsourcing jobs go to "brown" folks.

to be treated like scabs.

I think the H1B laws should be enforced stringently, and usually are, to ensure the H1B employees are not undermining prevailing wages (which is the law).

But, the hatred for foreigners -- and Nationalism and America First junk -- is getting somewhat disgusting. We live in a big world and have taken more than our fair share of the world's resources and wealth.

appearing on their picket line?

yeah, Hillary will not be there either, but she is evil and Bernie is good, no?

BTW, outsourcing (which appears to be the issue that prompted the protest) and H1B are two different and diametrically opposing issues. The former takes jobs out of the country and the latter keeps jobs in the country. Yes, H1B workers, like any other legal (or illegal) immigrants, depress wages, but at least they pay taxes. Close the borders to all immigrants (which, BTW, will not in itself alleviate the problem of depressed wages one bit), and all you will be left to deal with is outsourcing.

But let's not concern ourselves with the pesky details. We can't pass up the opportunity to bash Hillary, can we?

so pointing out her stance on positions is bashing.

Good to know.

and your subsequent post

...How do I move those dots one column to the right?

Isn't the important thing that in both cases, and I guess you could include undocumented immigrants as well, American jobs are being given to foreigners, mostly POC from developing countries. There are good arguments to be made on both sides(helping foreign POC better their lives vs. the effects on the American worker), but whether it is H1B, outsourcing, or undocumented immigration, they all have the same effect on American worker and on the American elite. Both outsourcing American jobs to foreign workers or insourcing foreign workers to take American jobs make the one percenters much richer by driving down wages and is a major reason why there is a growing gap between the one percenter elite and the middle and lower classes. That's why the US Chamber of Commerce and the corporate elite, along with their bought and paid for politicians are all in favor of H1B visas, outsourcing, and open borders. They are getting ever richer off of all three. Meanwhile the American workers have to deal with losing their jobs, jobs are harder to find, and depressed wages.

The taxes that H1B and undocumented immigrants pay are probably made up for by the government services they use and the government services used by the Americans they put out of a job. And if wages were higher, everybody would be paying more taxes.

you may have an argument. But then you will have to include legal immigrants as having the same effect as H1B recipients. They have the same exact effect on the job market as H1B workers. in effect, you are arguing that immigration is detrimental to the American workers and beneficial to the elites.

I am still not convinced that closing the borders will do the American workers any good. I am of the opinion that outsourcing union movements across the globe will have a greater effect.

providing a better life for almost exclusively POC from developing nations while legal immigration is generally open to anybody, rich or poor, from developed or undeveloped countries.

I am arguing that UNCONTROLLED immigration and outsourcing is detrimental to the American worker and beneficial to the elites. There is an argument that all immigration, outsourcing, and H1B should be managed with the best interests of the American worker in mind as well as the overall economy but the one percenters wouldn't like that so our politicians would never do it.

As far as jobs staying in the US and jobs leaving the US, I would think many H1B workers would rather have the jobs in their own communities where they wouldn't have to leave their extended family and their earnings would go much further. With undocumented immigrants, I would think many more of them would prefer the jobs in their own communities where they can be with their loved ones rather than having to brave a dangerous journey to the border, face a high risk of sexual assault or being forced into human slavery, possibly dying of thirst in the desert, and having to live illegally in a strange land with a strange language just to get the same job.

by the same government that controls legal immigration. And legal immigration primarily consists of POC from developing nations, while H1B visas are open to anyone, rich or poor. In fact, H1B recipients are primarily highly educated people filling high level jobs in sectors where there is shortage of qualified candidates. They come from developed countries like Japan, Russia, Ireland, etc. as well as developing countries. The reason H1B workers come to the US is because they want to stay in the US, but cannot get in due to quotas imposed on their countries by the US governments. They get out of their way to hire immigration lawyers to change their status to permanent residents. And they certainly don't want to return to their respective countries, where their salaries and living standards are significantly inferior to what they can expect in the US.

to train their H1B replacements. H1B is supposed to be about employers being able to bring in skilled workers when there is a shortage of workers with that particular skill in the US. I like the rest of your comments though. Informative.

these workers are granted their visas. Does the process get exploited by employers? Yes. But it reflects badly on the employers (who, BTW are liable under the law for any false information they provide), not on the H1B program. And this certainly doesn't reflect negatively on Hillary for her support of the program.

Both sides.

Hillary vs Bernie isn't a WWF contest, or a college football game.

Be adults and discuss or debate intelligently... Like adults. If/when Hillary looses the nomination, just accept it and vote for Bernie.

I have no problem voting for Bernie, even though I prefer Hillary.

But bashing Hillary at every opportunity doesn't seem too productive in building a relationship with the Democratic base.

This is insane.

While I believe that Bernie is the obvious choice, and for good reason, I'm just not going to try to convince anyone who wants to vote for Hillary not to. They have their reasons... no matter how misguided (lol).

Vote your conscience and vote... JUST VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even if you're voting (puke) for Trump... but DAMMIT!!!!!!! Vote.

for him to stay home.

I love myself and my principles, but I love America more.

Not sure I get what you're trying to say to me.

It is rare to find a sentiment like yours on the pages of DU.

I also am of an opinion that it is far more important to vote than who you vote for.

That's why I would put a great deal of effort if it helps someone, even someone I completely disagree with, even someone who would vote against everything I stand for, to get to the polls and vote.

you just slayed every single Bernie Sanders voter. Good one.

You SLAYED them!!!!!

Slayed!!! Them!!!

Way to go. You rock.

In the public streets not the driveways and do silent protests. Shame the mf'ers.

what in the world are you talking about?

I'm sure your position merits attention, but I was simply voicing an opinion. You seem to have read WAY more into my post than was attendended.

But sometimes the real villians need to be exposed.

I am not affected by this issue and so I can claim to have a dispassionate perspective. I think it is very difficult for me to oppose the immigration of Indians and Chinese when we argue in favor immigration of Mexicans. It makes us seem like racists and hypocrites.

It was Columbian and Hondurian immigrants who were fleeing violence and coming to our borders after their countries were destabilized by US policy.

The Indian and Chinese have no such issue.

Second, the Latino immigrants aren't stealing our higher paying jobs.

The majority of undocumented workers are Mexicans and not everyone who comes from Mexico fled violence. They just came for a better life. I know people from Mexico. Similarly, people from China and India come as computer programmers for a better life here because life is tough in their countries due to the legacy of imperialism and also the policies of IMF and WTO.

These are NOT jobs that would go unfilled, or jobs that Americans do not have the skills for. These jobs are given to H-1B visa holders because they will work for less and because the company and the contracting firm make money off of them. Why would that be okay? No matter WHERE the H-1B people come from? Literally taking the jobs, and in some cases, the people losing their jobs are forced to train the H-1B visa people. That doesn't even make sense.

Life gets tough for all workers including those in the auto industry. We cannot pick and choose whom to scapegoat simply because they are from Asia. If we did that, there would be no difference between us and the Republican xenophobes.

is being abused, and want to put a stop to it. It's supposed to be for companies that can't get certain skilled labor in this country. The US has no shortage of IT workers. It has a glut. But companies are firing IT workers to hire cheaper labor from overseas.
Hillary loves the program being used as is. Bernie wants to reform it.