Seattle compost rule thrown out by judge as unconstitutional
Source: Associated Press
Seattle compost rule thrown out by judge as unconstitutional
Walker Orenstein, Associated Press
Updated 8:09 pm, Wednesday, April 27, 2016
SEATTLE (AP) An environmental effort in Seattle to stop residents from tossing food scraps and other compost into the trash was ruled unconstitutional on Wednesday by a judge who said trash collectors poking through people's garbage violates privacy rights.
King County Superior Court Judge Beth M. Andrus voided enforcement of the city ordinance in a written ruling, but she did not invalidate the ban on throwing away compost.
The now-defunct rule went into effect early last year, and it required trash collectors to tag garbage cans that contain more than 10 percent compostable material with education information.
A group of homeowners sued the city over the ordinance, and lawyers representing them said it made garbage collectors snoop through trash like police detectives. Andrus wrote that trash collectors' search of garbage is a disturbance of people's private affairs.
Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Seattle-compost-rule-thrown-out-by-judge-7379931.php
tularetom
(23,664 posts)It didn't go over so well, except for the local raccoon population, which loved to get into the compost piles, eat the food scraps, and poop. They had to back off a little. Im sure they would still like everybody to compost, but not enough so that they want to furnish every home with a covered bin. So most people don't bother.
MissB
(15,808 posts)Weekly pick up of the bin - garbage pick up is only every other week.
Yard debris here means branches up to a certain diameter and pretty much anything else in the yard other than dirt. We also throw food waste in there along with any food-contaminated paper/cardboard (think: pizza box or food take out bag.)
At my house, we have 3 yard compost bins, purchased quite cheaply through the regional government agency in charge of garbage and composting. I compost any non-meat item in site, so mostly it's just meat/dairy/bones that go in the weekly collection bin. Our yard compost bins are raccoon/rodent proof.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)you get a discount on your trash service.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,316 posts)They'd have to give the discount to everyone who asked for it, whether or not they were actually keeping compost out of their trash.
cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)to opt out you can just dont expect to get a discount like you would if you opted in.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,316 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)By opting-in, you're acknowledging that they have the right to verify compliance. Because it's voluntary, if you do not want to have them "inspect your garbage" you're free to do nothing and preserve the status-quo which is them not being able to inspect your garbage...you then just don't get the discount.
Edit: I should have read further down the thread, I see someone else already explained it.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)One is for recyclables, one is for compostable material, and one is for everything else.
demigoddess
(6,641 posts)and still some people apparently are too stupid to put things in separate bins and from previous commenter, I guess some people are too stupid to put the lid down on their bins to keep the animals and birds out. We live near a commercial area with restaurants who apparently just throw uneaten food in open bins. As a result we have crows bringing plastic wrapped cheese and doughnuts etc to our bird bath. Some times you need rules to keep the neighborhood clean. But I guess that is UnConsTitutioNAL!!
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,446 posts)demigoddess
(6,641 posts)no squirrels, raccoons, coyotes, bears etc. Which other neighborhoods have trouble with.
Retrograde
(10,136 posts)With the added incentive: the city will pick up as much compostable and recyclable material as you can put out, but we're charged for garbage by volume. They recently switched over to allowing food scraps - including bones - in the compostables. If there's a large proportion of yard waste I haven't had problems (yet) with bones in the compostables bins.
displacedtexan
(15,696 posts)We have compost bins, trash bins, and recycle bins. They will also pick up stuff like furniture and appliances if you call them. With 60,000 people moving here each year, it's common to see politely written instructional notices taped to people's bins, explaining what is compostable and what can be recycled.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Like most people in Seattle, I am in favor of separating waste and that's shown through Seattle's record of doing this.
I think it's the punitive approach that brought on the lawsuit.
The education for composting included a media blast of video showing city workers poking through garbage and commenting on items and slapping red stickers on violator's bins and noting how neighbors will notice this, encouraging shaming.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/01/26/381586856/tossing-out-food-in-the-trash-in-seattle-you-ll-be-fined-for-that
Seattle is the first city in the nation to fine homeowners for not properly sorting their garbage. The law took effect on Jan. 1 as a bid to keep food out of landfills. Other cities like San Francisco and Vancouver mandate composting, but don't penalize homeowners directly.
As Watkins made the rounds in Maple Leaf, a residential neighborhood of Seattle, earlier this month, he appeared disheartened to find an entire red velvet cake in someone's trash bin. Any household with more than 10 percent food in its garbage earns a bright red tag notifying it of the infraction.
"Right now, I'm tagging probably every fifth can," Watkins says. "I don't know if that's just the holidays, or the fact that I'm actually paying a lot more attention."
Add to that the fining process. There were flurries of announcements and news stories about the fines about to be implemented, first last July, then in January.
The fines for apartments and condos are both higher and have additions that aren't reported on as much. Our apartment manager had been threatening a rent increase because of this ( on top of regular annual increases here) and this is for a building that regularly has little in the garbage bin and most in the recycling and compost bins. The trash and compost bins are also in the alley, so anyone can toss whatever in them, even if building residents use them properly.
One local blog has a much more detailed description of how this works. Note that the blog is in favor of more recycling and composting and accurately depicts the lawsuit as having been brought by a right wing organization. But the blog also shows the issues with the approach that has been implemented. There are extra fees on top of fines and we all know that those will get passed on to residents, even if those residents make every effort to comply.
http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2016/03/capitol-hill-community-post-compostings-a-dirty-job-and-youre-hired/
When a food and yard waste bin is tagged as being ineligible for pickup, the contractor places a check mark on the tag explaining why the cart wasnt emptied. When someone uses a plastic bag instead of a compostable bag (to the untrained eye, a compostable bag appears indistinguishable from a plastic bag), or discards recyclable or otherwise uncompostable material, someone needs to pick through the mess to remove it. Compostable bags are made from plants, vegetable oils and compostable polymers. They are not the same as biodegradable bags and oxo-degradable bags, neither of which are acceptable in the food and yard waste carts and are considered contamination. Adding to the confusion, compostable bags are usually dyed green, but not all green bags are compostable; some bags are identified as degradable but arent dyed green and may or may not be compostable. Regular plastic bags are never considered compostable, but many residents use them to contain the foul smells of food scraps. Whose job is it to clean up after irresponsible, uneducated, or just plain confused apartment dwellers?
Enter the Friends of Recycling and Composting, or FORC (pronounced fork). To further education and stewardship goals, Seattle Public Utilities offers a program offering a one hundred dollar utility bill credit to a property owner or manager in exchange for assigning a steward to monitor the recycling, garbage and composting at a building. If the FORC steward attends a training session, held three to four times a year, the Seattle Public Utilities website promises free compost bins for the multi-family residence they represent. Signing up as a FORC is a simple process of filling out a form, reading some documents, and watching a few videos.
http://www.seattle.gov/util/MyServices/Recycling/BldgOwnersManagers_Recycling/HelpResidentsRecycle/index.htm
The FORC training materials encourage the steward to monitor bins and carts and remove contaminating items using a grabber when doing so is considered safe in the judgment of the steward (one presumes). When its not safe, the cart is fouled, wont be picked up by the waste management contractor, and will require a special pickup which will incur extra fees and possibly fines. The training materials suggest writing thank you notes to green heroes in the building and holding recycling- and compost-themed parties for residents to share tips and enthusiasm. The approach seems to be heavy on carrot for residents (if you can call a waste-reduction-themed party a carrot with a straight face) and sticks for property managers and FORC stewards (being assigned to pick through smelly refuse to avoid paying extra fees feels stick-ish), which seems like its keeping true to the spirit of the City of Seattle Zero Waste Resolutions intent to encourage participation before penalties but this ignores the essential fact of American life: shit oozes downhill so costs and aggravation always get passed on to the consumer.
Add to that yard waste fines and the way these have been imposed.
http://www.kiro7.com/news/seattle-yard-waste-bins-pushed-open-branches-could/43488894
"To nickel and dime me when we already pay a lot for our yard waste," Thompson said.
It isn't hard to find examples of yard waste bins with the lids not shut.
"I drive down the streets all the time and I see all these people with their lids sticking up, and I think, there's $5, there's $5, there's $5, nobody knows," Thompson said.
When Thompson told us about her extra yard waste charge, KIRO 7 checked the Seattle Public Utilities website and found no mention that customers could be charged if their lids don't close.
After we contacted the city, officials added a warning on the yard waste page.
There has to be a better way of doing this.
Retrograde
(10,136 posts)The worst I've seen here is a note on the can saying your refuse has been refused - and those are rare. I occasionally put yard clippings in the regular garbage when I've filled up all the compost bins, and haven't had any complaints about that (they keep going back on forth on whether bamboo is compostable anyway).
suffragette
(12,232 posts)I think they've taken what should be a shared positive process here and damaged it by making it much more onerous than it needs to be.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)a separate can for compostable material, including all food scraps...we keep the compost in biodegradable bags which are see-through...we also recycle other materials...no lawsuits in all these years...
Too bad the planet must suffer because homeowners seem not to care about the environment they live in...
Yes, I live in Nova Scotia...
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)Separate bin for grass clippings and food scaps. They compost it and we can buy it back cheap.
Crash2Parties
(6,017 posts)the composted material isn't cheap to buy *and* it sometimes has RoundUp in it.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)about that. Composting is an amazing process. The US gov't uses compost to break down and dispose of old TNT explosives and contaminated soil.
I went to a composting workshop once in upstate NY and someone involved in the research about this was leading the workshop. I don't remember the details but they kept increasing the proportion of TNT to other organic matter in their tests and they succeeded up to some ridiculous amount, 70% or something. After 6 months it was gone. Blew my mind.
From a quick google:
http://compost.css.cornell.edu/tnt.html
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Courts have ruled before that trash cans on the curb is considered abandoned. For example the police can not search trash cans next to a house without a warrant. When you take it to the street, a warrant is no longer needed. California vs greenwood.
on the plus side the fine was 1 dollar. Can I just tape the dollar bill to my trash can every week, and be done with it. Dont give me a note about composting, thats just one more thing that wont be composted.
PaulaFarrell
(1,236 posts)Approx 17%. This is the reason for composting food (as well as reducing landfill size). It's low-hanging fruit, you don't have to change your lifestyle in any way other than to be a bit less apathetic - you still throw food waste in the bin, just throw it into a different one.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)Compostibles need pick up, delivery, processing, product sales,etc.sales, etc
Democat
(11,617 posts)Police search people's garbage without a warrant all of the time, right?
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,446 posts)California v. Greenwood, 486 U.S. 35 (1988), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the Fourth Amendment does not prohibit the warrantless search and seizure of garbage left for collection outside the curtilage of a home.
Background
In early 1984, Investigator Jenny Stracner of the Laguna Beach Police Department learned from various sources that Billy Greenwood might be selling illegal drugs out of his single-family home. In April, Stracner asked the neighborhood's regular trash collector to pick up the plastic garbage bags that Greenwood left on the curb in front of his house. In the garbage, she found evidence of drug use. She used that information to obtain a warrant to search Greenwood's home. When officers searched the house, they found cocaine and marijuana. Greenwood and Dyanne Van Houten were arrested and released on bail. .... The California Superior Court dismissed the charges against Greenwood and Van Houten on the ground that unwarranted trash searches violated the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment, as well as the California Constitution. The Court of Appeal affirmed. The Supreme Court of California refused to hear the appeal. The U.S. Supreme Court granted certiorari and reversed the judgment of the California Court of Appeal.
Opinion of the Court
By a 62 vote (Justice Kennedy took no part in the case), the Court held that under the Fourth Amendment, no warrant was necessary to search the trash because Greenwood had no reasonable expectation of privacy in it. Although Greenwood had hidden the trash from view by putting in opaque plastic bags and expected it to be on the street only a short time before it would be taken to the dump, the Court believed it to be common knowledge that garbage at the side of the street is readily accessible to animals, children, scavengers, snoops, and other members of the public. Moreover, Greenwood had left the trash there expressly so that the trash collector, a stranger, could take it. Quoting Katz v. United States, the court concluded that "{w}hat a person knowingly exposes to the public, even in his own home or office, is not a subject of Fourth Amendment protection."
....
Dissent
Justice Brennan reasoned that the possibility the police or other unwelcome meddlers might rummage through the trash bags does not negate the expectation of privacy in their contents any more than the possibility of a burglary negates an expectation of privacy in the home. Under United States v. Chadwick, the bags could not have been searched without a warrant had Greenwood been carrying them in public. Merely leaving them on the curb for the garbage man to collect, Brennan argued, should not be found to remove that expectation of privacy, for scrutiny of another's trash is contrary to commonly accepted notions of civilized behavior.
People find really great stuff in the trash all the time.
**cough**
So I've heard.
ETA: Travis_0004 has already cited California v. Greenwood: Seems like an odd ruling
christx30
(6,241 posts)jayfish
(10,039 posts)Not that it matters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Greenwood
happyslug
(14,779 posts)While the US Supreme Court has ruled that under the FEDERAL CONSTITUTION you have no expectation of privacy to garbage you put on the street to be picked up, state courts can use their own State Constitutions to find that such a right to privacy does exists, even of the wording in both constitutions are the same. Thus this MAY be based on the Constitutions of the State of Washington NOT the Federal Constitution.
Second, there is no Constitutional right to trash pickup. All the local municipality has to do is pass a law abolishing garbage pickup UNLESS you sign a waiver that whatever you put out as trash becomes the property of the City and the City has the right to exam it to see if the city WANTS it. No wavier, no Garbage pickup. At the same time the City can MANDATE removal of any trash in your yard and MANDATE any trash be disposed of in a licensed trash disposal area. i.e you can NOT leave the Trash around your home, but MUST have it removed to whoever is handling the trash for that local government. If you do NOT want the city looking into your trash, you have to haul it away to the dump (Or to where and how the local government handle its trash) and pay any dumping fees. If you want privacy you better be ready to pay for it.
branford
(4,462 posts)The government generally cannot mandate a waiver of a legal right as a condition of being provided with a generally available public service. Courts are unsurprisingly reluctant to let governments use backdoor or tricky means to violate rights.
For instance, what would stop a municipality from demanding waiver of other matters, including the speech, search, assembly and other restrictions, as a condition of refuse removal.
Absent a reversal on appeal, the city will likely have to devise an incentive, rather than punitive or intrusive, system to encourage compliance with the composting law.
happyslug
(14,779 posts)The Courts have LONG made a distinction between the two. The Government can NOT ban or licenses a constitutional protected activity, but the Courts will NOT require the same government to provide a service that PERMITS such activity. i.e. the Government can NOT prevent you from protesting, but the Government does NOT have to provide a place to protest. i.e. if you want to protest outside the Government Office, you can do so, but if the office faces an interstate highway, the Government has no duty to close that highway so you could protest.
As to Trash pickup, that is NOT a constitutionally protected right. The government can say it will NOT pick up trash and demand that residents take the trash to the dump themselves. The Government can say it will provide the service, but only to those residence who agree that the Trash can be searched. You continue to have the right NOT to have your Trash searched, but that trash does NOT have to be collected and hauled away by the Government.
The issue is what is the right being protected? Is it the right to have trashed picked up, or the right NOT to have that trashed searched? If the Government provides pickup service to everyone, then the Government can NOT stop some people from using that service if they object to their trash being searched. On the other hand, if the Government is ONLY providing service at is own discretion, termination of that service is perfectly legal. Imposition of a similar but new service but only citizens who agree to their trash being searched would NOT violate any right to trash pickup for the new right is conditioned on the right to searched and if you object, you can do so, but the Government will also NOT pick up your trash.
The Bill of Rights cover NEGATIVE acts only, it does NOT provide any POSITIVE ACTS, i.e. the government can NOT impose restrictions on speech, but does NOT have to provide a forum for such speech. The Government can NOT hold you in jail without a trial, but the Government does NOT have to put you are trial to clear your name. The Government can NOT prevent you from owning a Firearm, but the Government does NOT have to provide a firearm either. The Government can NOT take your property without compensation, but the Government does NOT have to provide you property even if you need a place to live.
Now, under the 14th amendment people have to be treated similarly, The government can not say X can do Y, but Z can not do Y, on the other hand if X can do Y, Z can NOT demand that the Government help Z to do Y (For example, I can print a paper and distribute that paper at my own expense to people in my area, my neighbor has the same right to do so, but can NOT ask the Government to provide them a printing press and access to name to receive that paper, unless the Government had provided such aid to me).
There is not to many Positive Rights in the US Constitution and the Courts have been reluctant to find any. For example, if you apply for public housing, your local public housing authority does NOT have to provide you housing. The Housing Authority has a duty to treat all applicates equally, but if someone gets in and the next person is told no, that is it, unless you can show some illegal reason for the Denial (And the burden of proof is only the applicate NOT the housing authority).
greymouse
(872 posts)open on one side. If wildlife wants to take something, they're welcome to it.