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Judi Lynn

(160,540 posts)
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:48 AM Apr 2016

Oklahoma court: oral sex is not rape if victim is unconscious from drinking

Source: Guardian

Oklahoma court: oral sex is not rape if victim is unconscious from drinking

The ruling sparked outrage among critics who argue the judicial system engaged in victim-blaming and upholding outdated notions about rape and sexual assault

Molly Redden
@mtredden

Wednesday 27 April 2016 16.47 EDT Last

An Oklahoma court has stunned local prosecutors with a declaration that state law doesn’t criminalize oral sex with a victim who is completely unconscious.

The ruling, a unanimous decision by the state’s criminal appeals court, is sparking outrage among critics who say the judicial system was engaged in victim-blaming and buying outdated notions about rape.

But legal experts and victims’ advocates said they viewed the ruling as a sign of something larger: the troubling gaps that still exist between the nation’s patchwork of laws and evolving ideas about rape and consent.

The case involved allegations that a 17-year-old boy assaulted a girl, 16, after volunteering to give her a ride home. The two had been drinking in a Tulsa park with a group of friends when it became clear that the girl was badly intoxicated. Witnesses recalled that she had to be carried into the defendant’s car. Another boy, who briefly rode in the car, recalled her coming in and out of consciousness.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/27/oral-sex-rape-ruling-tulsa-oklahoma-alcohol-consent

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Oklahoma court: oral sex is not rape if victim is unconscious from drinking (Original Post) Judi Lynn Apr 2016 OP
Apparently, none of them have any daughters… or they are all sick world wide wally Apr 2016 #1
Oh, they have daughters, all right fred v Apr 2016 #3
But, only after getting them liquored up. /nt NCjack Apr 2016 #35
...or perhaps they correctly interpreted an inadequate law JustinL Apr 2016 #9
As if I needed another reason lapfog_1 Apr 2016 #2
I completely disagree with the ruling. n/t Little Tich Apr 2016 #4
.+1 840high Apr 2016 #12
How is it not rape? drm604 Apr 2016 #5
Of course it's rape. The law is being BADLY christx30 Apr 2016 #40
There are some sincerly scary and ignorant laws here. Behind the Aegis Apr 2016 #6
So, Oklahoma Judges... when YOUR daughters get roofied and orally penetrated... TygrBright Apr 2016 #7
I will take in the Oklahoma Refugees! Silver_Witch Apr 2016 #29
In the South, many do not consider oral sex to be sex. McCamy Taylor Apr 2016 #8
Former President Bill Clinton certainly didn't think oral sex counted as sex. olddad56 Apr 2016 #14
BUT THE GOP DID! cynzke Apr 2016 #18
I just threw up a little bit floppyboo Apr 2016 #10
Yet the FBI still says it's rape Crash2Parties Apr 2016 #11
so, if a guy drops a 'date rape' drug in a girl's drink, olddad56 Apr 2016 #13
The judges need to picture this... Ino Apr 2016 #15
BETS ARE ON....... cynzke Apr 2016 #19
Of course they would love it they are men right? Silver_Witch Apr 2016 #30
This is ridiculous. Helen Borg Apr 2016 #16
Someone test the water in Oklahoma mdbl Apr 2016 #17
Methane, from all the fracking???..nt freebrew Apr 2016 #25
WTH jpak Apr 2016 #20
So they are against LGBT rights, but in favor of rape if it's male and female? Dustlawyer Apr 2016 #21
Impure Thoughts in North Carolina Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2016 #32
Can't they just not be so overly broad and judge each case on individual merits? Bonobo Apr 2016 #22
Where is that statement in the text of the decision? jberryhill Apr 2016 #31
So, explain to me, how is that a consensual act? sinkingfeeling Apr 2016 #23
A strict interpretation of ambiguous language. malthaussen Apr 2016 #24
Yep jberryhill Apr 2016 #28
It's still rape... freebrew Apr 2016 #26
Thats absurd (nt) jcgoldie Apr 2016 #27
My God, who would vote for such scum that push this horrific ignorance! AuntPatsy Apr 2016 #33
WTF!? Phlem Apr 2016 #34
It's connected to a different law that's not properly updated Blue_Adept Apr 2016 #36
Shame on you Oklahoma! avaistheone1 Apr 2016 #37
WTF. If it involves "private areas" and it's involuntary, it's rape. Period. n/t Calista241 Apr 2016 #38
Oklahoma Legislators Seek Change in Sodomy Law After Ruling Eugene Apr 2016 #39
This is completely effed up! smirkymonkey Apr 2016 #41

JustinL

(722 posts)
9. ...or perhaps they correctly interpreted an inadequate law
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:59 AM
Apr 2016

From the article:

Michelle Anderson, the dean of the CUNY School of Law who has written extensively about rape law, called the ruling “appropriate” but the law “archaic”.

“This is a call for the legislature to change the statute, which is entirely out of step with what other states have done in this area and what Oklahoma should do,” she said. “It creates a huge loophole for sexual abuse that makes no sense.”

Jennifer Gentile Long, who leads a group, AEquitas, that guides prosecutors in sexual and domestic violence cases, agreed. She said the Oklahoma law was an example of a gulf that still exists in some places between the law and evolving notions around consent and sexual agency.


Are Michelle Anderson and Jennifer Gentile Long also "sick"?

lapfog_1

(29,205 posts)
2. As if I needed another reason
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:05 AM
Apr 2016

to never set foot in a red state again... there is this bit of stupidity.

christx30

(6,241 posts)
40. Of course it's rape. The law is being BADLY
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 04:30 PM
Apr 2016

misinterpreted. An unconscious person is 100% unable to give consent.
From what I remember, the only time I remember unconsciousness equals consent is the Heimlich maneuver.
Was the young lady choking on broccoli at the time? No? Then it was &@&@ rape!

Behind the Aegis

(53,957 posts)
6. There are some sincerly scary and ignorant laws here.
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:51 AM
Apr 2016

There are more coming down the pike too.

Of course, this "opinion" isn't just held by conservatives. It also depends on the victim and, in some cases, the sex of the attacker. If there is no consent, then it is rape/sexual assault. Rape is rape, regardless of the attacker or the victim. I find it troubling how many people try to find "outs" in regards to rape and sexual assault.

TygrBright

(20,760 posts)
7. So, Oklahoma Judges... when YOUR daughters get roofied and orally penetrated...
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 01:56 AM
Apr 2016

...it's not rape.

Got it.

When does the evacuation of young women from the State of Oklahoma begin? We can probably find shelter for a few here.

wearily,
Bright

 

Silver_Witch

(1,820 posts)
29. I will take in the Oklahoma Refugees!
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:26 AM
Apr 2016

How is it 2016 and we have not made a national regulation/rule/law that rape is illegal. Period. All rape not just icky rape caught on video that is aggresious.

olddad56

(5,732 posts)
13. so, if a guy drops a 'date rape' drug in a girl's drink,
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 03:32 AM
Apr 2016

then has oral sex with her while she is unconscious, that would be okay with the judges who made this ruling. I think this one just might get overturned.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
21. So they are against LGBT rights, but in favor of rape if it's male and female?
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:20 AM
Apr 2016

Just wanted to make sure I had this right, because that must be what Jeebus would do!

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
22. Can't they just not be so overly broad and judge each case on individual merits?
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 08:42 AM
Apr 2016

Why do they have to make a claim like "state law doesn’t criminalize oral sex with a victim who is completely unconscious." --which is so patently ridiculous?

If they want to argue that she gave a blowjob of her own free will, fine, but why does it have to get blown up into such a silly broad ruling (or claim)?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
31. Where is that statement in the text of the decision?
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:28 AM
Apr 2016

As noted in the article:

"But several legal experts declined to fault the appeals court, saying instead that the ruling should be a wake-up call for legislators to update Oklahoma’s laws.

Michelle Anderson, the dean of the CUNY School of Law who has written extensively about rape law, called the ruling “appropriate” but the law “archaic”."

We don't prosecute criminals based on feelings, but on what the statute says. There is an apparent flaw in the Oklahoma rape statute which does not cover the circumstances here.

malthaussen

(17,195 posts)
24. A strict interpretation of ambiguous language.
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:30 AM
Apr 2016

Common sense has little to do with the law. The problem illustrated is that the legislators are incapable of writing a statute that is clear and complete.

-- Mal

freebrew

(1,917 posts)
26. It's still rape...
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 10:24 AM
Apr 2016

the girl , 16, is not old enough to give consent. Drunk/drugged/asleep or not.

Isn't that federal?

Blue_Adept

(6,399 posts)
36. It's connected to a different law that's not properly updated
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:19 PM
Apr 2016

So they're doing their jobs right. I think it's the third or so post upstream from the top that talks about it.

Eugene

(61,899 posts)
39. Oklahoma Legislators Seek Change in Sodomy Law After Ruling
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 04:12 PM
Apr 2016

Source: Associated Press

Oklahoma Legislators Seek Change in Sodomy Law After Ruling

By SEAN MURPHY, ASSOCIATED PRESS
OKLAHOMA CITY — Apr 28, 2016, 3:55 PM ET

Outraged Oklahoma lawmakers said Thursday they'll move quickly to change a loophole in the state's forcible sodomy law after the state's highest criminal court ruled it doesn't apply to cases where the victim is unconscious or intoxicated.

State Rep. Scott Biggs, a former prosecutor, said he was "horrified" by last month's decision and is drafting language that legislators could consider as early as next week.

"I think the judges made a grave error, but if they need more clarification, we are happy to give it to them by fixing the statute," said Biggs, R-Chickasha.

The unanimous ruling, first reported by Oklahoma Watch, a nonprofit journalism corporation, said that while Oklahoma's rape law addresses unconscious or intoxicated victims, the forcible sodomy law does not. The court said it could not expand the "fair meaning" of the law to justify someone's prosecution.

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]


Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/oklahoma-legislators-seek-change-sodomy-law-ruling-38739045
 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
41. This is completely effed up!
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 04:47 PM
Apr 2016

God, I swear things just continue to get worse and worse for women and girls in this country. We might as well get it over with and declare Sharia law.

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