they need to go away

I just dont get why they are STILL on TV. And I admit watching some stupid shows, too. Its just ridiculous

you are a sexist to a jury.

Happened to me once. Even though I completely agree with you.

I'd hate to think about all the naughty words we'd be subject to if they weren't hard at work protecting our virtue.

Quick, run to the jury parents and passive aggressively bully the person who used a word I don't like.

So for me, that part is irrelevant.

I can also understand why someone would choose not to undergo reassignment surgery. Nerves are tricky things in terms of healing (or not). Sensation is a lot to give up.

Ready to undergo surgery and make that change.

Considering what people have to lose in terms of sensation, I can't blame them.

It's up to the person, but she's prefers to be called female now.

I hate to use the term PC but it was really draped all over this issue. It's like you could say anything negative about Jenner without being a bigot or a transphobe or whatever.

I support Cait on her transition.

But I give Chaz Bono hella more props for how he handled his transition.

Chaz has always been an LGBT supporter. La Jenner ... nada

or approve of everyone in the category, and in fact still find that some are personally distasteful for other reasons. So, I think this does help LGBT people gain acceptance as people with as much diversity as other human beings.

That said, I think the Kardashians are a really strange phenomenon reminding me of Hunter S. Thompson's "when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

Which to me is a lot like chickens for Colonel Sanders.

Advocating voting the racists, sexist, and intolerant party out of office (especially considering the "new" legislation coming out of state governments), does a hell of a lot more to promote LGBT than stripping to nothing and wrapping yourself in a flag that will be hiding the naughty bits.

The only ting I accept is that she is the very definition of a hypocrite. She may like being LGBT, but let's get real. She likes her money more!

And I have no intention of even beginning to follow that crowd.

The rest would not even be on the map if it wasn't for OJ Simpson. Now they're celebrities for being celebrities?

I find that really distasteful.

And she's 66. I don't care how much work she's had done, that's going to take industrial strength Photoshop.

Have they put any other nude 66 year olds on the cover? Didn't think so.

You can blame all this on the evil Ryan Seacrest. He's the one who pitched "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" and produced the show.

And makes the focus of her life just about sexuality.

I respect what she's been through but don't like her much. In fact I very much dislike her and I sure as hell don't want to see her nude.

thinks having your picture taken without your clothes is a good thing.

when I expressed such a sentiment, I was accused of being someone who could only envision sex in the missionary position

I kid you not

The human body can most certainly be displayed artistically. Whether this one actually accomplishes that goal is in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

I would post some examples but it would get hidden

Please go the hell away, whatever your name is today.

in any form.

Hollywood "hey, look at me" types don't interest much anyway.

On Fri May 6, 2016, 09:08 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Sounds OK, if the medal is 8' in diameter.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1439023

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Transphobic

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri May 6, 2016, 09:17 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I don't think the post is transphobic, but it is not OK nonetheless (it is not saying whatever Jenner's name is today) it is saying whatever Big dogs name is)
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: meh
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "Doesn't want to see Jenner nude = transphobic" sounds an awful lot like "Doesn't want to see Hillary as president = misogynist". The DU outrage junkies need to chill the fuck out.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

This place is somethin' else lately...........

That's really something I don't care to see, along with the rest of that family.....

Might as well make it a promotional endeavor as well.

not (s)he.

As much as I hate Caitlyn's politics, I support HER as a woman.

is tits and hair. I know she's a she, but her values are a mess.

there are/were a *lot* of women from her generation who thought that way.

But she has been living in an ultra-modern world for a long time and I don't see that as an excuse. However I suppose while she has become something of a role model for some in the trans community, that was never her goal. She's doing what's best for her. Basically, I just don't care for her as a person... nothing to do with her being trans or nude or whatever.

Bruce never posed nude - why does Caitlin need to pose nude?

My point is that jenner is a conservative republican.

Are the republicans going to support one of their own?

...like you would to anyone else?

anything that isn't self-serving and attention seeking? Just go away already.

...doesn't mean you should. Major TMI, IMO.

Just go away already. Shouldn't your 15 minutes be up by now?

Got a dong? Then you're a dude! Sorry if I'm being old-fashioned.

where things like this are not so cool. Nature likes diversity, evolution demands it. It tries all kinds of variations to ensure viability. Sometimes a person with a huge stature is not an aggressive person, sometimes a small stature person is very aggressive. There is nothing wrong with it at all. It is nature trying all things.

Do you get that? The Kardashians!

The name doesn't change evolution at all.

qualified as "evolution." But, by all means, stay correct!

your ignorance. Now you know that it can indeed be evolution. I think you are actually giving a reason unsupported for the action although even your reason supports the existence of evolution for that case. So, thanks. I appreciate you agreeing with me.

I think money is a main reason the practice is going forward, especially given the fact that the totally radical procedure is not medically justifiable:

Not only is that totally incorrect, but what about every other surgery that isn't "medically justifiable?" Does someone really "need" facial reconstructive surgery after a bad accident? Does someone really "need" a giant tumor removed from their face (or any other visible area?).

Btw., that article casts doubt on its own premise by pointing out how flawed studies of transgender people are. You're stating that Sex Reassignment Surgery is "not justified" as an established fact, but it's not an established fact.

I'd also like to point out that people who get it are already presenting as a woman. It's not like they woke up one day and said, "I think I'll go get my balls cut off today!"

& that goes for a lot of wishes btw

I saw you mention that you took the feminist position to Jenner above. Isn't it hypocritical to not want Conservatives to inject themselves into and control your medical decisions, but at the same time do the same thing to transgender people? Shouldn't this be up to Caitlyn Jenner? It's her body.

Are you transgender? If not, why should you have a say what medical procedures transgender men and women have?

And to answer your question, I've seen many transgender people who are happy with their decision. They don't need a study to tell them whether or not they are happy with their corrective, gender-affirming surgery.

yes it's their choice.
That doesn't make all of those things healthy--physically, mentally or emotionally.

It's mentally (or emotionally) healthy. It alleviates gender dysphoria. If someone is of a sound mind, why shouldn't they do it?

& because radical surgery might relieve the dysphoria while leaving/compounding the other problems:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939

It's suicide rates as compared to the general population (the control). This doesn't show that SRS leads to suicide. It shows that SRS doesn't fully treat dysphoria - a fact well known in the transgender community. Until people can actually be reconstructed to the opposite gender, I'm not sure dysphoria can ever totally be fixed.

Also, there are going to be people who regretted transitioning. That doesn't mean *all* people, or even most will regret transitioning.

You seem to misunderstand what being transgender actually is. Being a cross- dresser is something completely different from being transgender. There are cis men and women who cross-dress. Transgender people are not cross dressers. They were born with the wrong gender. Cross dressers may have an affinity for the opposite gender's clothing, but aren't necessarily that gender. Transgender people are already the other gender, but their body doesn't match.

Also, dysphoria isn't a simple looking in the mirror and saying, "Oh - I wish I was 2 inches taller..." It's a fundamental unease of who you are on the outside vs. on the inside. It's like if someone switched you one day from a woman into a man, and then everybody around you scolded you for not "dealing with it."

Also, remember that regret might not stem from gender-affirming procedures, but rather from the bigotry someone will face when not passing as the sex they were assigned at birth. There is privilege in being cis-gender. Giving up privilege is hard. Society is mean to people who fall outside its norms.

but I do find that your explanations/defenses are a bit overwrought.

your second-from-last paragraph could be accused of not respecting the unease that other people feel with other kinds of dsyphoria. How can you judge them, say that they are feeling anything less serious than what the gender dysphoric feel? How can you say

If you understood what it means to be transgender, you would know why. It's also a thing that a lot of transgender people are tired of hearing - "Oh, well why don't you just live with it?" Or "Well, I wish my hair was a little longer." That minimizes being transgender, like it's something they could just shrug off. I'm sorry for people that experience dysphoria for things they want changed about their body, but being transgender isn't the same thing. (I'm not saying all forms of dysphoria can be shrugged off - just that being transgender is different).

The switched analogy was just that - they aren't "switched" so much as born that way. Then, society tries to force transgender to live contrary to their real gender because it violates society's norms. The important thing to take from it as that demanding transgender people not affirm their gender is actually irrational - it's a societal norm.

Not sure where I used loaded words and charges? Could you point them out? It's a fact that society is bigoted towards transgender people. I offered this as an alternative to the assumption that transgender people regretted transitioning because they decided they didn't want to be female afterwards. I'm sure it's happened before, but I don't think that's the case for most transgender people who have transitioned and had SRS.

known transphobe Dr. Paul McHugh in your defense.

Here's a critique of the study you linked to:

http://www.transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm

Also note that there's a marked difference between how SRS was performed pre-1990 and now, the technology and techniques improve over time.

Who said it did?

You are the one making that case, so tell us why it does have to be medically necessary?

What's wrong with doctors telling a patient in extreme psychological torment that their problem will be solved if they have radical surgery to remove their sexual organs & have plastic surgery to create a semblance of different sexual organs, even though this irreversible surgery most likely will not work? Is that what you're asking?

Who said anything about a doctor telling anyone that. Fred V who's thread we are on said "I wasn't aware that DELIBERATELY altering one's body as a publicity stunt qualified as "evolution." But, by all means, stay correct!" I think the ratio of doctors telling it and people wanting it themselves is probably like 1-10,000, unless you have some evidence to counter that. So, when you can find where doctors have told patients " that their problem will be solved" is the reason people are doing it rather than people actually wanting it done themselves let me know.

like 0.003 % of the human population makes the argument moot..

I know how evolution works, why would .003% have any bearing?

why you are arguing with me when you also say I am correct. At least we have a stepping stone to work with.

of an X or Y chromosome.

not a flying fuck was given.

The contrast in sentiment between this and the original MRA-inspired SI Swimsuit edition thread is operatic.

Helps Skinner and EarlG find the ones that slipped through the last little rash of transphobic bullshit we had here.

So to speak.

Self promotion at the expense of the transgender community. Mark my words, I (imo) am going to say Bruce Jenner will become Bruce Jenner again in 3-5 years after this Bullshit publicity wears off....

But I guess if you don't have anything else, you pose for SI in the nude.

There is not one thing appealing about Jenner from politics to publicity seeking to seeing an old man (pretend trans?) naked.

Just ewww.

doubting her sincerity in her gender expression.

Can we be critical of the person without being transphobic about it, Jesus fucking Christ, is that too much to ask?

I could be wrong, but I don't see this issue flying off the shelves. Maybe people will buy it as a collectible.

I will say one thing. I wish Caitlyn would spend some time with a voice coach. Her male voice is disconcerting. It takes a lot of practice, but I knew a trans woman whose natural voice was much lower than Jenner's. She worked with a voice coach and you would never know she was born male.

What's the point? What do we learn about them that we can't see if they're wearing clothes?

All of them...Kanye, Caitlyn, Kim, Khloe, Lamar...train wrecks. No thanks.

to avoid doing a feature spread on her?

ya know with a feature showing her and ann colter i could be convinced to bring back the burning of books

Since she said she is a republican, and all.

Like attracts like.