Last edited Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:37 PM - Edit history (1)

as measured in blood tests.

And this isn't just because doctors are looking harder for it. There was a study involving blood samples that had been collected decades ago, compared to recent samples given by the same people. Many of the people who produce gluten antibodies now did not produce them decades ago -- something happened in the meantime.

It just seems odd that we've been eating wheat for thousands and thousands of years, and all of a sudden we're allergic to it.

the peasants couldn't afford wheat (which the absentee landlords were shipping off to the Continent, along with butter, milk, etc., during the "famine.&quot The mainstay of their diet was potatoes.

Now it's hard to avoid wheat, since it's in most processed foods, as well as in foods you wouldn't expect -- like soy sauce and "rice noodles" (which can contain more wheat than rice.)

I got really sick recently after drinking a wheat beer. I never get sick. And a friend of mine had the same experience. We looked around the interwebs and found that many people say they're having allergic reactions to American beers (yes, just Americans). People are wondering if it's GMO crops that are doing this.

I don't have a problem with wheat. It's the processed soy in everything that causes me grief.

is not the same beast we're eating today. Modern hybridization has changed it almost beyond recognition. You can read more about that here: and here: http://cilie-yack.org/food-allergy-news/194-modern-wheat.html

and here: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/saturated-fat/wheat-belly/

After reading Wheat Belly, I have a way better understanding of why modern wheat is already sort of "processed food" even when it's whole grain.

A lot of genetic tinkering and breeding to increase the gluten levels.

I'm guessing there's more than one source for it, but here's one: http://www.einkorn.com/

That's the stuff people were eating for thousands of years.

growing the heirloom wheats as well. I grow one called Sonora that was supposedly brought to the New World from Portugal before Columbus- who knew?

Anyway, look for heirloom wheats, they are around. The yield is WAY lower (like 5 x's lower per acre) so the price has to be higher. But wow does it have flavor and way less gluten and apparently the proteins that make the gluten up are somehow different in molecular weight and shape.

A lot of processed foods, like chicken nuggets, are mixtures of wheat gluten and chicken. And, the first ingredient in Morningstar Farms fake meats is wheat gluten. Many parents feed their kids this stuff, especially chicken nuggets. So, it's not surprising the kids are having digestive tract issues.

It's the same with many pet foods. Lots of them up the protein content with wheat gluten. Not very healthy for your pet, especially the kitties, who are obligate carnivores, whose digestive tract and metabolism are geared toward meat consumption.

and gluten sensitivity is a major problem leads me to think it might be more than chemical.

To add more gluten.

with William Davis, M.D., a preventative cardiologist and author of "Wheat Belly"

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/09/20/on-the-evils-of-wheat-why-it-is-so-addictive-and-how-shunning-it-will-make-you-skinny/

I wish it were as easy to lose weight on a wheat-less diet as he says, though! Celiacs might find it easier to gain weight because food doesn't just shoot through healed intestines.

And Round-up ready? They're trying to kill us.

food, grains, sugar.... eat a primal diet.... cure your auto-immune diseases. We should not be eating gmo.

marksdailyapple.com

I worked for a doctor who treated it and he didn't think it had anything to do with diet. But doctors aren't well trained in nutrition, even gastroenterologists.

... that many inflammatory/autoimmune diseases are aggravated by various dietary factors.

If I were seeing that doctor, I would get a new one

Pollution.

Poptart, Twinkies, Soda, Gummi Bears, self pollution of our bodies way beyond tap water.

Which may be contributing to allergies. The human immune system needs to be challenged. If our children are brought up in sterile environments, that doesn't happen. No mud pies. No eating ants. No swimming in raw sewage (as George Carlin put it).

I use bar soap without anti-bacterial stuff. Plus, your fucking hands (and the rest of your body) are covered with beneficial bacteria. They help you.

Anybody who uses anti-bacterial soap puts their children's health in danger.

expose ourselves to a variety of chemicals trying to create a sterile environment!

It's an enhancing (flavor) and binding agent. It's cheap and plentiful...but much is now GMO.

It's in Everything. Check out canned, processed food for "modifies soy protein." See how much you eat of it.

You even find "hydrolyzed soy protein" in canned tuna.

Best to buy tuna without this in it but you must pay the price for it of course.

Read Naked at Noon.

And please don't bring up the old trope about the sun causing cancer. The sun does not cause cancer. Sun BURNS cause cancer.

- but that's why God put Vitamin D capsules in little bottles!



Seriously - I and a couple of my kids can trigger flares of autoimmune disorders with sun exposure!

--
"Since the 1950s, we've become a much cleaner society, our food is much more sterile, and we use antibiotics much more frequently, so we are just not exposed to the amount of microbial agents that we would normally have been exposed to during our childhood," said Dr Gaya. "As a result, our immune system doesn't have the chance to get primed to these so-called 'safe bugs'.
--

Too much "healthy food" will kill you, or at least, make you sick. Orthorexia is a serious social problem, and it's just getting worse with the internet, with rumors and junk "diets", with everybody believing themselves to be a scientist of some kind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthorexia_nervosa

I'd think the low levels of Vitamin D might be the more likely culprit. Get outside, guys. Spending all day indoors will kill you.

My BIL got this as a teenager and all he ever did all day was sit on his ass in the house and watch TV.

He was the youngest of 8 who all grew up on a dairy farm drinking 4% milk (without the added Vitamin D of store-bought whole milk) and eating everything fried in butter. Purely anectdotal, but no one else ended up with bowel issues. And everyone else did chores during their free time instead of crashing on the floor in front of the TV.

If it were the milkfat, you'd think when agriculture was our major industry 100-150 years ago there would have been cases of IBD everywhere.

so many people refuse to walk out the door unless their child is slathered head-to-toe in sunblock. I'm lucky that our schools aren't super concerned about it and my youngest child's babysitter believes in short bursts of sunblock-free outdoor play to get vit D. I let my kids play outside sunblock free often. When we're going to the lake or going to be out all day, then they get slathered in it, but they are generally outside enough it's not a problem. LOL, at the local elementary school, the principal believes in kids being outdoors so much that unless it's colder than -25 degrees (Celcius) or a thunderstorm, the kids go outside, rain or shine. My daughter complains but I think it's good for them. I notice a difference on how well they sleep when they play outside. My other daughter does have to be careful (should've been a red head and is covered in freckles) but I think short bursts throughout the day are fine.

Here in Canada they were theorizing the rise in MS in Canada (some of the highest rates in the world) were linked with lack of vit D as well.

They are much stronger now and over-prescribed. They kill off good bacteria in our gut and cause an imbalance than can lead to various bowel diseases. This is a controversial issue and many doctors dont want to talk about it because of Big Pharma.

C-dificile is known to be caused by overuse of antibiotics. It's kind of a given, but maybe that is just among professionals and not with patients? Problem is that if you have a seriously ill person, they need the antibiotics to stay alive. They are then set up for c-dif. It runs through nursing homes...

Doctors start with the simplest antibiotic(s) that a given microbe is susceptible to and the patient is not allergic to, because they have fewer side effects and are safer as well as cheaper. Unfortunately, past and current overuse -- including and especially on factory farms -- is driving the increase in antibiotic resistance. That forces doctors to up the ante.

And yes, there have been doctors known to over-prescribe (decades ago, before I worked in healthcare) I had a co-worker with the flu demand his doctor prescribe antibiotics. even when I explained to the co-worker the differences between a virus and bacteria, he admitted he knew that. but he still insisted that everything possible be done. The doctor should have thrown him out, but I think back then they just relented because it was easier.

People are stupid, and sometimes doctors give up and give them what they want. No doubt they regret that now....

On the other hand, some doctors aren't too people smart -- or maybe are too constrained for time? We recently had a patient drop off a bloody stool in the lab to be tested for c-dif; she asked us what could cause bloody stool because her son also had diarrhea. On chatting with her, we determined quickly that not only had she been camping recently, but she had been teaching her son "survivalism." I immediately asked if they drank from a stream. Yup. Lab partner and I looked at each other, looked back at her, and answered in unison, "giardia." The doctor was ordering the wrong test; probably didn't have a chance to ask enough questions. Locals also don't realize (or, if tea partiers, don't accept) that climate change has warmed our fresh water to the point that giardia -- which never survived Maine winters in the past -- is now running rampant, along with a host of other microbes that never survived Maine winters before.

and they say the main reason they dont discuss it much with patients is that they dont want scare people away from using anti-biotics because the benefits usually outweigh the risks.

Yes, I know some patients are insistent on being "treated" with medicine even if they dont really need it and Drs go along with it because the customer demands it. This is a problem.

I had antibiotics constantly as a kid. Every time I had a sore throat (again, constantly.......found out as an adult it's ALLERGIES) I was on antibiotics. My kids have only been on a grand total of 5 times, total. That's between 4 kids where the youngest is 5 years old. Once for a persistant bladder infection. Once for borderline pneumonia. 3 times for dental absseses (genetically defective teeth). I was probably on antibiotics 10 times before I turned 2 - usually for a runny nose. No doctors that we have ever seen for the kids were anxious to prescribe antibiotics unless it was serious. LOL, most of my kids' antibiotics came from dentists.

I know at least 5 people who are suffering from IBD type diseases.

But I think I can safely assume you believe in biodems considering your use of language.

Last edited Sat Jun 16, 2012, 07:08 AM - Edit history (1)

Here are just a couple of references for your enlightenment..

Natural Health News — People who are prescribed a large number of antibiotics tend to have a higher risk of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), according to a new study.

The findings, published in the American Journal of Gastroenterology, and based on a sample of more than 24,000 people, add to evidence that antibiotic use can disturb the normal ‘friendly’ bacteria balance in the gut.

Previous studies have linked antibiotic use the spectrum of IBD disorders, which include Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis. In the current study, Canadian researchers found 12 percent of people diagnosed with the two conditions had been prescribed three or more antibiotics two years before compared to seven percent without the disease. This difference was consistent over a five-year period.

http://www.nyrnaturalnews.com/health/2011/10/antibiotic-overload-link-to-imflammatory-bowel-disease/

==========

The American Journal of Gastroenterology 106, 2133-2142 (December 2011) | doi:10.1038/ajg.2011.304

Association Between the Use of Antibiotics and New Diagnoses of Crohn's Disease and Ulcerative Colitis
Souradet Y Shaw, James F Blanchard and Charles N Bernstein

RESULTS:

The mean age at diagnosis was 43.4 years. In all, 12% of cases had ?3 prescriptions 2 years before the case date, compared with 7% of controls. The odds ratio for those receiving ?3 dispensations 2 years before their study inclusion was 1.5 (95% confidence interval: 1.3,1.8; P<0.0001) of being an IBD case. This difference in ?3 dispensations between cases and controls was fairly consistent at 3, 4, and 5 years before IBD case date. Antibiotic dispensations were associated with both Crohn's disease (CD) and ulcerative colitis (UC), with the association nominally stronger in CD cases for ?1 and ?2 dispensations, while the association was stronger in UC cases for ?3 dispensations. A dose-dependent relationship between the number of antibiotic dispensations, and the risk of IBD was observed across all years investigated.

CONCLUSIONS:

Subjects diagnosed with IBD were more likely to have been prescribed antibiotics 2–5 years before their diagnosis. This possibly implicates antibiotic use as a predisposing factor in IBD etiology.

http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/v106/n12/full/ajg2011304a.html

Believing in crap like ingesting MMS (bleach) can help cute autism, which is why Age if Autism linked to this article in the first place. Frankly, Natural Health News is not a better source.

So let's make this clear, IBD are still mysteries, we do not know environmental factors, if any, cause them. However we do know Chrohn's looks to be bacterial based, and a lot of studies are currently underway to see if an antibiotic solution can be found.

The study you link to above says that there is a proportionately higher number of two IBDS who had 3+ antibiotic treatments. However, due to subgroup selection the percentages look bigger due to the sample size. A 12% to 7% difference where only a ratio of 1.5 is observed between subgroup and IBD means significantly more study is needed to see if there is a real correlation or not. This is why the conclusion is "there may be a link".

Only the biodem people have decided this supports their good/bad bacterial crap which is why the only sites referencing the study you linked are knee deep in woo.

The American Journal of Gastroenterology. I think I would trust that source more than some anonymous poster who calls himself Godhumor.

You sure seem to be wound a bit too tight. Chill out dude/dudette (whatever you are), this is just a discussion board. Ciao.

Add I said on my message the study says there needs to be further research done.

And not wound tight, just hate the insanely dangerous biodem movement and everything it represents (ie bleaching the gut if a good thing). It is tortuous and the fact that anti-vaccers are adopting out represents nothing less than child abuse.

"This possibly implicates antibiotic use as a predisposing factor in IBD etiology."

Thats the conclusion from the journal article. I know its not definitive but what research is. This isnt the only study and there are many medical professionals who believe there is a link based on years of experience and seeing actual cases.

BTW, I have never heard the term "Biodem" and "bleaching the gut" sounds dangerous and absurd.

Futhermore I would not recommend people to stop using antibiotics.. just use them only when absolutely necessary.

And good/bad bacteria is the basis for the Biodem movement selectively targeting bad bacteria.

As I said the study is what is called a lead-off study. The scientists were a non random correlation between antibiotic use and 2 tips of IBD. The methodology and conclusion its Ann academic way of asking other scientists to Terri and reproduce the findings. If that happens, next step is to the track down if the antibiotics cause or are a supporting factor.

Look I am sorry for jumping all over you. It was uncalled for.

This topic is serious and does hit home with many people. I've also had personal experience with those in my family.

Clearly you know alot about this issue but I do believe there is a link. We shall see how it plays out as more research it done.

Peace.

Either it will come back that antibiotics are an "independent" correlation in that people who have to take a lot of antibiotics also happen to be more vulnerable to IBD, naturally.

Or we will see that certain antibiotics are a contributor with other symptoms for very specific types of IBD.

Or we will see that it was all statistical noise, heh.

IBD is really not understood well, at all. Lord only knows what we will eventually find out.

I've had Crohns since I was 5, but wasn't diagnosed till I was 16, due to most of the medical profession not thinking that kids could have it. Nowadays, children are diagnosed much more promptly.

However, increased poverty and its resulting poor diet could be aggravating the situation. So might concentrated milk fat - but more research needs to be done. There's no doubt that in some people dairy products, fat, or both can aggravate the symptoms of IBD, even if they don't cause it in the first place.

As literally everything put on the site is shit.

they've got the anti-vacc disorder bad.

I'm guessing this trend is caused by diet or a change in reporting/detection. Not all the stuff people are hypothesizing here.

And the reason they linked to the study in the op is they're now advocating curing autism through something called biodem. Essentially, this calls for giving children industrial strength bleach enemas a well as diluted bleach drinks in an effort to destroy bad bacteria and cultivate good bacteria. Primary to this belief is that antibiotics kill bacteria indiscriminately and should be avoided.

In other words, parents are forcing children to consume bleach to make them "normal". AoA is in front of this ground breaking child torture...I mean treatment.

Jesus, it's scary that these people reproduced.

/and bleach is "discriminate"? Crazy.

IMO, anyone unfamiliar with AoA might find it helpful to examine these threads carefully and objectively:

More at post #78 (below).

The whole autism-GI tract relationship is based on Wakefield's discredited work. There is nothing there and these kids are being poisoned for nothing.

There is a site search engine. Please do drive more traffic there. We all need to pay closer attention.

One would think that parents of kids being poisoned with this shit would be screaming from the rooftops and calling for heads, not suggesting the stuff to each other and circling the wagons around the hucksters.

2009:
http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/04/1141979-60-minutes-episode-exposed-swine-flu-vaccine-injuries-lack-of-safety.html?cid=6a00d8357f3f2969e2011570601bb4970b

www.ageofautism.com%2F2009%2F07%2Fis-he-high-functioning.html&ei=va3gT-LIJqGt8AG2yLjvCA&usg=AFQjCNEGSKv0GEsi2lr23cVFBCud1b4e9A

Last week: www.ageofautism.com/2012/06/autism-one-is-there-a-doctor-in-the-house.html?cid=6a00d8357f3f2969e2016767342458970b

Including Odin, which lends even more weight to what LeftyMom said, and what I believe.

- if you look at the facts.

Oh lordy. Love the anti vac links, too.

you have to be joking.

I have no words...

As the poster who was responding to me was kind enough to link to charlatans claiming autism can be cured gastrointestinally. I didn't bother responding to him, but if you google the people he linked to in all his posts they have all been discredited or found themselves in court. Harvard's setting up a woo science department has given completely unfounded legitimacy to some of these ideas.

But yes, anytime someone talks about MMS cures, they're talking bleach. The biomedical movement had a lot to answer for.


Oh, look up Kerri Rivera on google/YouTube. She is the AoA speaker advocating all of this at the recent whackadoodle Autism1 Conference. She actually advocates MMS enemas until autistic children have uncontrollable "cleansing" diarrhea and drinking MMS enough to start what she calls "fever therapy".

See COMMENT here (June 06, 2012 at 06:33 PM, http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/06/vaccine-controversy-black-and-white-chalk-talk.html ) or, like me, don't (it's not representative of the site),
and among a list of presenters at the 2009 AutismOne Conference with perhaps 50 names, including Harvard's Dr. Martha Herbert (see above). Insufficient association to support your smear, certainly.

( http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zMhCwlpwVUQJ:www.ageofautism.com/2012/06/vaccine-controversy-black-and-white-chalk-talk.html+Kerri+Rivera+age+of+autism&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us )

The Princeton-Harvard (Blaxill), Yale (Olmsted), Stanford (Handley, Kuo Habakus), Johns Hopkins (Taylor), Berkeley (Belkin) educated parents who comprise much of the core of AgeofAutism are not so easily discredited, although I can fully understand how desirable that might be to some. These intelligent, informed, credible and committed parents drill down into the nitty-gritty of the comforting narratives we're all provided in what used to be called 'investigative journalism.' The AoA site is filled with examples.

Kerri Rivera was a speaker at Autism 1, the AoA organized crankfest.

Your links are all to either people associated with AoA or who have been discredited. Biomedical quackery will not "cure" autism. All it does is give false hope and damage families.

And the Harvard Osher Center for Integrative Medicine its the bane of actual doctors and scientists for the quackery it produces.

Again, using the Bible to prove the Bible.

Disregarding the original analyses and anecdotal information the site provides still leaves a wealth of meticulous commentary on sources from peer-reviewed journals, government reports, and hearings. Finger on the pulse, so to speak. Junk science does not cut it at AoA and attempts to discredit AoA on this thread by claiming the site endorses Rivera or her new 'protocol' presented at an independent AutismOne conference are specious.

AutismOne 2012
• 130+ SPEAKERS/PRESENTATIONS
• 20+ TRACKS
• 5 DAYS
• 3 KEYNOTES
• 6 FEATURED SPEAKERS

Ah, but they're in good company, since Harvard is on the 'woo woo science' list, too. Feel free to backtrack anytime. No shame ever in 'lessons learned.'

That is the very definition of junk science.

So let's do a few links for you:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/infiltration-of-quackademic-medicine-into-mainstream-a-pernicious-influence/
From Kausik Datta of John Hopkins

Fair and objective reporting doesn't get any better than this.

Adventures in autism is an anti-vac blog deeply routed in misguided thinking. Quoting two people from a radio show who both say vaccine do not explain a rise in autism rates, admittedly one more equivocal then the other, as sport that vaccines cause autism is deluded.

Herbert wants to be the respectable face of the biomed movement, which is why places like AoA love her. She is not espousing anything scientifically worthwhile, but hey what's the difference, right?

As for overzealous, I'd argue much more strongly for the people who insist someone or something is at fault for the condition who then engage in behavior that is dangerous to the child (biomed "treatments&quot and others (Refusal to vaccinate).

Look, the problem with all of this is that pretty much all the sites and people you quote treat autistic children as being broken who need to be fixed. They use language like "there in body but not in spirit" or "my son was taken away from us". They give good people the false belief that something is at fault and their child is no longer while.

I don't know how better to explain this, there is am echo chamber of pseudoscience. Sites feed off it, indictments are seen as persecution or conspiracy, discredited practitioners are unsung heroes fighting the good fight. And people get hurt as a result.

It boils down to one simple statement: they're wrong and they are doing real damage pretending to be right.

Great that everyone talked, but scientific rigor means accepting having to prove hypotheses. I'm done harping on it, so no comments on DAN! or Herbert.

I'm on a cell, so I can't really post links, but there is some really interesting research being done on the chemical revolution and physiological changes generations later. Essentially researchers injected a generation of rats with a mold and found that two generations later descendents reacted to stress situations differently than rats that had no ancestral contact.

The research is in its infancy, but if this physiological changes can also be shown to carry over in humans, well, we might be able to explain a lot of things. Essentially exposure from things like mustards in the wars, dyes in factories, etc were so pervasive we would be seeing pretty massive effects today. If I remember, I'll post the study here or in GD tonight when I get out of work.

See http://www.autismrevolution.org/ .

Publicizing this dangerous "trend."

Horrific. This is child abuse.

Reveal some really interesting studies and links.

Just a breakdown of some case studies of people who bought into this crap and what happened as a result. Of you really want to learn why this is so dangerous I strongly suggest you explore this website to start

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-price-of-anti-vaccine-fanaticism-a-story-in-three-parts/

what are solution for this issue!!!

About 94 percent of U.S. soybeans and 72 percent of the corn is genetically engineered. There's growing suspicion that the insecticide residues produced by bacterial genes implanted in these crops are responsible for health effects in humans. If we were going to see them, IBD and similar disorders would be the first place I'd look...

Irritable Bowel Syndrome responds favorably to probiotics.

Inflammatory Bowel Disorder can be triggered by an overgrowth of certain bacteria.

Antibiotics taken orally for an infection somewhere in the body, will also kill of good bacteria in the intestines and result in intestinal troubles like diarrhea and in susceptible people, IBS, colitis and IBD.

These things we know, when put together, support your hypothesis.

It's a matter of restoring healthy intestinal flora, which can be disrupted by diet and antibiotics and other drugs. But there is probably some impact of excessively clean and hygenic environments, just as with asthma. Kids no longer play in the farmyard dirt or out in the barn with the animals.

Your intestines contain way more microbial cells than there are human cells in your body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut_flora

Avoiding or reducing the consumption of

1) 'food chemistry' derived products (processed foods)
2) chemical laden 'conventional' fruits and vegetables

especially by children or individuals of reproductive age, until health safety has been established. It's called the Precautionary Principle. Incidentally, the recommendation for children is from the Herbert (MD, PhD, pediatric neurologist) book (above).


How about those ANIMAL FEEDING STUDIES by independent scientists on the substances in category #1 and #2 above? Real science, you know?

I am of the mind that intestinal flora may be a factor also. I personally prefer eating active culture yogurt and taking oral probiotics though.