Ugh.

of the direct victims could be alive?

n/t

other means. Wasn't meant to be any kind of slur of course people here seem to find some reason to attack at the slightest
misunderstanding. Just saying the ones alive have to be very old a little too little too late.

I too lay the blame on others when I say something half-witted, stupid or generally oblivious. It allows us an unwarranted pretense of cleverness...

(additional creative rationalizations justifying an oppressively stupid statements as the fault of the listener to soon follow in space provided below free of charge)

But maybe you should stick your overly large nose in someone else's business.

And being gay doesn't automatically make you sterile?
You said something stupid and now you want to double down on it rather than admit it.

As recently as the 1980's, in the United States, gay parents were being stripped of their parental rights because their homosexuality made them "unfit parents" in the eyes of the law. And adoption? That wasn't even a possibility in Germany until 2004.

The other posters point was crudely framed, but somewhat valid. Until the last couple of decades, it was VERY rare for an out and open LGBT to have children in Germany, the United States, or just about anywhere else. While they were biologically capable of doing so, social and legal pressure kept all but the most dedicated from trying.

It is highly unlikely that many of those convicted under this law (which was enforced until 1969) ever had children. Even if they wanted to, the reality of their world would have prevented them from doing so.

here. Seems some of them just sit around and analyze every post to try and find something to attack someone for.
I am really surprised that Germany was like that clear up 2004. I have always thought the European countries were much more liberal than that. As for the others I am not going to argue with them, they want to be offended over it fine. IDGAF

let us not get hung up on extraneous BS when something important and special is happening. Yes. These folks would be old, if still alive. If you had been in a concentration camp incarcerated for homosexuality, and were 20 and it is 1944, then now you would be 92.

Those who suffered because a loved one was taken then are dead. Those who suffered because the person's life was tainted with the memory are getting a little recognition and understanding and acknowledgment along with the victim if he /she is still alive.
Though late, the Germans in my opinion are to be lauded for an attempt at rectifying so much evil. As we all know, big or small transgressions, it's not easy to say "I'm sorry" properly.

In the third Reich many young homosexuals were rounded up and stuck into the camps. They were brutalized and stigmatized and barbarized. They often took off the pink triangle they had to wear on their clothing and replaced it with a star of David from a Jewish corpse. The treatment of the Jews was better than theirs many times.

Now that you know that, let's stick with what's important.

That may not go over well with some, but sadly, it is close to the truth. Also, the pink triangles were larger than most triangles, so they were easier to see in the distance, and they were also made to wear them on their backs as well (a few Jews got that treatment at various camps as well). Gay men were routinely murdered by other victims of the concentration and death camps. They were raped by the guards and prisoners alike. Some never even made it to the camps because they were simply killed in the streets. While the Jews certainly received the lion's share of hate and murder, gay men ranked right up there. After the liberation, criminals and gay me, because they were seen as criminals, were not liberated, and many had to serve out their time in jail as assigned by the Nazi courts. People like me, would wear what I currently use as my avatar.

I would have posted this story here, but was afraid it would get locked as "not of national interest". I posted it in GD instead, with 104 reads, no comments, and no recommendations: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027823819

And Shenmue posted in the LGBT group, no comments, 100 reads, and 4 recommendations: http://www.democraticunderground.com/113747571

At least it is getting some exposure, even if it is because of the nonsense which you properly and correctly address. Thank you.

I'm crying because I know.
And because I'm German I am both filled with national guilt and ---today---a little bit of an exhalation.
I wish one day we could talk... You and I. I am filled with lots of history.
Which is one of the reasons that my eyes rarely fill with tears any more.

It would be interesting to talk with you for sure. Like you, I am full of...history too (amongst other things, just ask my mother). After coming out in college, I immersed my self in studying gay history and culture, all the back into time. Read some really wonderful things; sorted through lots of crap, and found commonality with a variety of peoples and cultures. I actually used to do presentations on LGBT history throughout my working in the university system up until I left in 2003. I turned my attention to anti-Semitism a few years ago, and started a more in-depth study of that bigotry as well.

BTW, thank you for being there for a mutual friend over in the photography group!

Up until the early 60's consensual sodomy was a felony in every state and sodomy laws were still being enforced all the way to the Lawrence v. Texas decision just a few years ago. Earlier in US history, gay men were routinely castrated, which was seen as a more humane punishment than being put to death. Post WWII, many homosexuals were involuntarily committed to mental institutions where they faced unspeakable torture and lobotomies.

And yet despite facing worse treatment than any other minority group throughout US history, still to this day there are exactly zero federal civil rights laws which cover sexual preference as a protected class, unlike Germany.

Welcome to the way that many DUers look at America.

YMMV.

Welcome to the hyperbole many DUers confuse with substance.

Implying the US wasn't much different than German concentration camps makes you lose all credibility, which is a shame since the body of your post was good info. but no one will get past your headline.

The title is part and parcel to the point I made. Do a bit of research on conditions inside sanitariums and you might begin to see the parallels. The conditions were dismal and simply being forcibly committed was bad enough, but it didn't stop there. Homosexuality was considered a mental disorder by the medical community until the 70's. Standard "treatment" consisted of placing electrodes on the genitals of homosexual men and while showing them homoerotic material they applied increasingly severe electric current until the response was gone. If the patient didn't respond to "treatment" they were eventually lobotomized. Now understandably not everyone knows of this, but if one does and doesn't consider such treatment the worst sort of barbarism, I could really care less if they assign me any credibility or not.

That's what the earlier sex offender registries were for.

In some places this continued until recently. I can't remember when it was 2002 (?) when somebody sued a local newspaper because it "outed" him based on an arrest which had nothing to do with his sexual orientation.

Especially if you are referencing the pre-Nazi and Nazi era. However, if you are discussing post-war, then, by all accounts, the treatment of gays and lesbians, mostly gay men, were about the same in both countries as it was in most of the Western World. Places like the USSR, Eastern Bloc countries, and a few others, mostly South America were certainly worse than either the US or Germany, post-war.

Much of what you describe as happening in the US was happening in Europe as well. Raids on gay hangouts, publications, and other gay areas were common all over. I studied gay history for years, especially the early 20th century. The medical "procedures" carried out against gay people were horrific, and in some cases, limited to gay people. Lots of conversion therapies used then are still being practiced now, despite various bans. It is almost amazing how creative some bigots are when exacting their "treatments" on LGBT people.

It is also true there are very few federal protections extended on the basis of sexual orientation, unlike Germany, there is also no marriage equality in Germany. The state level discrimination is much worse, and many don't seem to understand that it is still legal to fire GLBT people or refusing them housing in almost half of the US, which is not the case for any other minority!