Clinton's Security Council, said when meeting Bush officials like Condi Rice--

Al Qaeda was "Clinton's thing;" not theirs . . .

Last edited Wed Jun 20, 2012, 09:03 AM - Edit history (1)

9/11 happened because some very bad decisions were taken, not for lack of attention.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/258

Also, you show amazing patience to still keep writing here. Thank you.

I like it here.

in one of these threads, you have to tell us why.

as new information becomes available. After November 2012?

But, I'll leave that open on my calendar, just in case they have other plans.

So "Bush kept us safe," huh?

They would have tried to impeach him before his first year in office was over.

Republicans don't know how to lead.

I've been through two major hurricanes in my lifetime -- Betsy, during LBJ's presidency, & Katrina. LBJ helped to get our area back to normal very swiftly. I'll never forget the difference between the two aftermaths. Bush was cruel & very political, which was the last kind of leadership we needed.

It wasn't exactly a secret that NO wasn't prepared for a major hurricane, and the GOP had an abiding interest in weakening the Democratic Party's hold on urban areas generally. It still does. Gov. Piyush is proof of that.

National leaders - not necessarily the figureheads, and no matter what their political affiliation - are usually blessed with great ability & have great accomplishments behind them. There's no need for them to suddenly display unusual ignorance, stupidity & incompetence when simple unfeasance will do the job they want & need to be done.

National Guardsmen with assault rifles everywhere, having to line up at Wal-Mart (the only grocery store that was stocked up ) for groceries, checkpoints everywhere, curfews -- it was like living in a nightmare.

It could very well have been LIHOP. He certainly couldn't put politics aside in dealing with the Democratic mayor & governor.

Yep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

the last word and leading a country where you are supposed to represent all the people. This is one real problem I see with Rmoney and why he is so out of touch.

They needed a new "Pearl Harbor" event to get their plans in motion - taxcuts and war! The way you let it happen is to make sure you (POTUS) don't let yourself know what's going on. You can't prevent what you don't know.

It's very hard to dispute that they didn't want what happened once you've read that document. In fact, they wanted it to happen.

I think that most Americans know in their heart-of-hearts that 911 was an inside job.. designed to justify the WOT.

Its a terrible thing to live with and admit... (the cognitive dissonance) to acknowledge that there is a shadow govt or group of humans in the U.S. who would do what they did on on 911.

But they did do it.. and it happened.. can't change that.

He has already said that he will carry on the agenda.

Romney is just as inept as was Bush in dealing with the neo-cons. They are salivating just thinking that his winning will give them the green light to reignite their plans to dominate the Middle East by firstly bombing Iran into the stone age and then wiping out the Palestinians leaving Israel the dominate force in the chaotic Middle East.

It's shocking without context, and lame in context.

They did get their laptops upgraded a bit, though.

have a acual manifesto for world domination and that's "lame" in context? It's acually the other way around it's not shocking without context since it's a thinktank. When you add the context of powerful people and world domination it's shocking.

Read the report. The whole thing. They're talking about IT upgrades. Not world domination, but upgrading military technology.

When you "add the context of powerful people and world domination", you are adding something that isn't in the original PNAC document.

MIHOP. I will ALWAYS believe that. Too many holes.

MIHOP!
Read "Rebuilding America's Defenses" and you will see why.

If a bunch of insiders came forward and exposed how the Pentagon arranged the attack on 9/11 the news would be all about a bear running around in the suburbs, a flight delay because of some married couple arguing, and how Obama's poll numbers are tied with "what's his name"....

That is SOOOOO 2011-ish.

What'z zappening in the modern day is the wild and crazy up and coming sport of the masses:

dressage

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101735587

NASCAR, it's been nice knowin' yah. Get back to bootlegging and rum running where you belong!

Let's get Obama re-elected and blow the lid off this MIHOP/LIHOP 9-11 once and for fucking all!

The prosecution of George W. for TREASON will make for marvelous TV, doncha think?

-90% Jimmy

would never blow the lid off 9/11. he and the *ushes are buds!

Because it is not just a theory.

what is a CTer?

the 'company line'.

Off course there are many truly ridiculous and/or patently false people and theories when it comes to 9-11, but the vast majority of these psy-ops are simply disinfo designed to give a convenient brush with which to discredit legitimate scholarship and the massive lies that emanate from the official US government's version of what happened.

This short video sums up a lot of the legitimate questions about 9-11:

and done quickly too.

I was genuinely curious to hear what the video might say, but the early distortions about how difficult the 9/11 attacks were to accomplish immediately turned me off.

The essential truth about the 9/11 attacks were that they were ridiculously simple to carry out, owing to our arrogance and greed. And bin Laden being in a cave somewhere is irrelevant, since he wasn't directly involved in the planning or execution of the attacks.

Wish the message could come from a foundation of truth.

Those are questions I want answered. But to ask such a thing is to be labeled a "twofer". Or if one points out that in ALL of the photo's and video from all 4 crashes, we see no seats. 800 plus seats nowhere to be found in ANY picture. DNA identified, but frames of burnt out seats or empty seats or occupied seats are nowhere.

I know it sounds crazy. But I bet no one here can find one picture of a seat. Please IM me if you do. Show me I'm wrong. Not all seats would have burned up. DNA is more fragile than seats. And that last picture of the video with Pentagon employees picking up evidence off the ground is very puzzling. Why would workers who work at the Pentagon not be guarding the Pentagon or DC from another attack? Why was Rumsfailed helping victims instead of doing his job? 40 minutes after the second tower attack, the highways near and around the Pentagon were still open. WHY?

Because they knew there would be no more "attacks", that's why.

Maybe there weren't any - who knows?

...where the 'let's roll' crew supposedly crashed; let alone seats.

Last edited Wed Jun 20, 2012, 01:18 AM - Edit history (2)

1. Building 7 was reported on live BBC TV was having collpased when it was still plainly visible on the screen. It didnt collapse until 20 minutes later.

BBC Reports Collapse of WTC Building 7 Early-- TWICE



2. How were the calls from AA fights 77 (Pentagon crash) and Flight 93 (Pennsylvania 'Let's Roll' crash) made? Both were 757's. The Airphones were deactivated on AA 757's in January 2001, at the lastest, and cell phones couldnt be used at that height the planes were flying at the time almost all the calls were made.

http://tinyurl.com/yl8gz59


Did American 77 Have Onboard Phones?

 Statements from various representatives of American Airlines that its Boeing 757s did not have onboard phones, the most important of these being Chad Kinder, who, in response to the question whether it was true that there were no “seatback satellite phones on any [American] Boeing 757 on September 11, 2001,” said: “That is correct; we do not have phones on our Boeing 757. The passengers on flight 77 used their own personal cellular phones to make out calls during the terrorist attack.”95

 A page, dated January 28, 2001, purportedly from the Boeing 757 Aircraft Maintenance Manual (757 AMM), which states: “The passenger telephone system was deactivated by ECO [Engineering Change Order] FO878.”96 Although the phones were physically removed from the planes in 2002, this document says that they were deactivated, so that they could not be used, almost eight months before September 11, 2001. The authenticity of this page is vouched for by an American Airlines employee who, although he wishes to remain anonymous, is known to Rob Balsamo of Pilots for 9/11 Truth.





 The following statement of American Airlines Public Relations Representative John Hotard: “An Engineering Change Order to deactivate the seatback phone system on the 757 fleet had been issued by that time [9/11/2001].” Following this statement, Hotard emphasized that photographs showing seatback phones in American 757s after 9/11 would not prove anything, for this reason: “We did two things: issued the engineering change orders to disconnect/disable the phones, but then did not physically remove the phones until the aircraft went . . . in for a complete overhaul.”97

 The following statement by Captain Ralph Kolstad, who flew Boeing 757s (as well as 767s) as captain from 1993 until he retired in 2005: “[T]he ‘air phones,’ as they were called, were . . . deactivated in early or mid 2001. They had been deactivated for quite some time prior to Sep 2001.” In response to a question about this statement, he added: “I have no proof, but I am absolutely certain that the phones were disconnected on the 757 long before Sep 2001. They were still physically installed in the aircraft, but they were not operational.”98

Given the fact that these four mutually supporting pieces of evidence come from completely different sources, they provide very strong evidence for the view that American 757s in 2001, and hence American Flight 77, did not have functioning onboard phones.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cell Phone Limitations

http://tinyurl.com/yc24883


Given the cell phone technology available in 2001, cell phone calls from airliners at altitudes of more than a few thousand feet, especially calls lasting more than a few seconds, were virtually – and perhaps completely – impossible. And yet many of the reported cell phone calls occurred when the planes were above 25,000 or even 40,000 feet24 and also lasted a minute or more – with Amy Sweeney’s reported call even lasting for 12 minutes.25

Three problems have been pointed out: (1) The cell phone in those days had to complete a “handshake” with a cellsite on the ground, which took several seconds, so a cell phone in a high-speed plane would have had trouble staying connected to a cellsite long enough to complete a call. (2) The signals were sent out horizontally, from cellsite to cellsite, not vertically. Although there was some leakage upward, the system was not designed to activate cell phones at high altitudes.26 (3) Receiving a signal was made even more difficult by the insulation provided by the large mass of an airliner.

Well-known Canadian scientist and mathematician A. K. Dewdney, who for many years had written a column for Scientific American, reported early in 2003 on experiments showing that these difficulties would have rendered impossible at least most of the reported cell phone calls from the 911 airliners.27 His experiments involved both single- and double-engine airplanes.

Dewdney found that, in a single-engine plane, successful calls could be counted on only under 2,000 feet. Above that altitude, they became increasingly unlikely. At 20,000 feet,

“the chance of a typical cellphone call making it to ground and engaging a cellsite there is less than one in a hundred.... [T]he probability that two callers will succeed is less than one in ten thousand.”

The likelihood of 13 successful calls, Dewdney added, would be “infinitesimal.”28 In later experiments using a twin-engine plane, which has greater mass and hence provides greater insulation from electronic signals, Dewdney found that the success rate decayed to 0 percent at 7,000 feet.29 A large airliner, having much greater mass, would provide far more insulation – a fact, Dewdney added, that “is very much in harmony with many anecdotal reports ...that in large passenger jets, one loses contact during takeoff, frequently before the plane reaches 1000 feet altitude.”30 Dewdney concluded, therefore, that numerous successful cell phone calls from airliners flying above 30,000 feet would have been “flat out impossible.”31

Such calls would become possible only several years later. In 2004, Qualcomm announced a successful demonstration of a fundamentally new kind of cell phone technology, involving a “picocell,” that would allow passengers “to place and receive calls as if they were on the ground.” American Airlines announced that this new technology was expected to be commercially available in 2006.32 This technology, in fact, first became available on commercial flights in March 2008.33

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. The extraordinary amount of drills occuring on or around 9-11-2001. Biggest swarm in modern history, with many involving hijacked airplanes, some flown into hi-rises, and some of them planned before Bush was elected.

http://archives.kpfa.org/data/20110907-Wed1300.mp3 Radio Pacifica, Guns and Butter Show

THE 46 DRILLS, OPERATIONS, WAR GAMES, AND ACTIVITIES OF 9/11

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?29696-The-46-drills-operations-war-games-and-activities-of-9-11

THE 46 DRILLS, OPERATIONS, WAR GAMES, AND ACTIVITIES OF 9/11
1
PRE-9/11 PREPARATION
Drill Date Scenario
1 NORAD Between 1991 and 2001 Foreign hijacked airliner crashing into
famous US building

2 White House, Richard
Clarke
1998 Terrorists load Lear Jet with explosive,
attack Washington DC

3 NORAD 1999-2001 Hijacked aircraft hit many targets,
including WTC, MASCAL

4 Able Danger: DIA, USSOCOM,
LIWA
Dec. 1999-2001 Manipulate al Qaeda; data mining (patsy
control)

5 Stratus Ivy: DIA Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Operate on patsies “out of the box” (patsy
control)

6 Door Hop Galley: DIA (?) Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Still secret (patsy control?)

7 Proactive Pre-emptive
Operations Group (P2OG)
unknown “Stimulating reactions” of terrorists (patsy
control)

8 NORAD (NEADS)
Exercises: UN HQ, NYC
October 16, 2000 Terrorist crashes Federal Express plane
into UN HQ NYC

9 NORAD (NEADS)
Exercises: UN HQ NYC
October 23, 2000 Terrorist crashes Fedex plane with WMD
into UN HQ NYC

10 Pentagon MASCAL
exercise
Oct. 24-28, 2000 Commercial aircraft hits Pentagon,
MASCAL

11 FAA drill December, 2000 Scenario: a chartered flight out of Ohio
that had turned its transponder off

12 Positive Force ’01:
NORAD plus a dozen
agencies; worldwide
April 17-26, 2001 Continuity of government; attacks on
transportation; one scenario: terrorist
group hijacking commercial airliner and
flying it into Pentagon (Pentagon attack)

13 Unified Vision ’01: US
JFCOM; US CENTCOM;
US SOCOM: 40 agencies
May 7-24, 2001 Invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan
(prepared Operation Enduring Freedom,
October 2001)

14 Red Ex (Recognition,
Evaluation, and Decision-
Making Exercise); NYC
OEM; FDNY; NYPD;
FEMA; FBI
May 11, 2001 Plane crashes and building collapses in
New York City (WTC attack, demolition)

15 Amalgam Virgo ’01: USCanada
multi-agency drill;
NORAD; SEADS; Coast
Guard, Army, Navy
June 1-2, 2001 UAV drone launched from rogue freighter
in Gulf of Mexico or cruise missile from
barge in Atlantic Ocean; Joint Based
Expeditionary Connectivity Center
(JBECC) mobile radar command center
tested. (Pentagon attack)

16 Mall Strike 2001,
Westmoreland County,
Pennsylvania (near
Shanksville); 600 local first
responders and
emergency managers
June 16, 2001 Toxic chemical agent and the simulated
release of radiation and radiological
contamination; (indoctrination of first
responders).

17 FAA Drill: FBI Miami field
office, Miami-Dade County
Police Department.
Summer 2001 Varig airlines Boeing 767 hijacked over
Florida

18 Ft. Belvoir, Davison Army
Airfield helicopter base
MASCAL
June 29, 2001 Scenario based on plane hitting Pentagon
(indoctrination of first responders).

19 US Department of
Transportation Hijacking
Exercise
August 31, 2001 US Dept. of Transportation Crisis
Management Center drilled hijacks;
simulated cell phone calls.

20 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant
Guardian)
September 6, 2001 Tokyo to Anchorage flight hijacked by
“Mum Hykro” to Vancouver and San
Francisco

21 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant
Guardian)
September 6, 2001 Seoul to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Lin
Po” to Seattle

22 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant
Guardian)
September 9, 2001 UK to NYC flight hijacked, blown up

23 NORAD SEADS NEADS
(Vigilant Guardian)
September 10, 2001 Ilyushin IL-62 from Cuba hijacked by
asylum seekers, lands at Dobbins Air
Force Base in Georgia
ON 9/11
Drill Date Scenario

24 FBI training exercise in
Monterey, California for
FBI/CIA Anti-Terrorist
Task Force
Through 9/11 Diverts top FBI, CIA anti-terrorist and
special operations agents and heavy
equipment away from Boston, NYC,
Washington DC

25 NORAD annual readiness
drill, Cheyenne Mountain,
CO (Vigilant Guardian)
9/11 Full ‘battle staff’ levels to test entire
organization

26 Vigilant Guardian:
NORAD, NEADS, USCanada
9/11 Live-fly hijacking and air defense; hijack
multiplication, diversion and confusion

27 NORAD/JCS Vigilant
Warrior
Through 9/11 Reported by Richard Clarke

28 Operation Southern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 174th Fighter Wing, New York Air
National Guard, to Sultan Air Base, Saudi
Arabia, to impose no-fly zone over
southern Iraq

29 Operation Northern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 6 fighters from Langley AFB sent
to Incirlik AFB, Turkey to impose no-fly
zone over northern Iraq

30 Operation Northern
Vigilance
Through 9/11 Diverts fighters, 350 personnel to Alaska
and northern Canada to counter a
Russian bomber drill

31 Operation Northern
Guardian, Keflavik AFB,
Iceland
Through 9/11 Diverts fighters from Langley Air Force
Base (Virginia) deployed to Keflavik AFB,
Iceland to counter a Russian bomber drill

32 Red Flag, Nellis AFB,
Nevada: 100 pilots
9/11 Diverts most F-15s of 71st Fighter
Squadron, Langley AFB, VA; DC ANG’s
121st Fighter Squadron of Andrews Air
Force Base also depleted.

33 Andrews AFB local drill 9/11 Diverts 3 F-16s to North Carolina

34 National Reconnaissance
Office drill, Chantilly,
Virginia
9/11 Simulated plane crash into high-rise
government building; satellite imaging
(WTC attack)

35 Tripod II, New York City 9/11 Response to biochemical attack; run from
backup command center at Pier 92,
Hudson River.

36 Fort Meyer VA Education
Center training drill for
9/11 Assembled and indoctrinated Pentagon
first responders, local firemen.

37 Timely Alert II, Fort
Monmouth, New Jersey
9/11 Indoctrination of WTC first responders.

38 World Trade Center
Emergency Drill, Fiduciary
Trust Co., 97th floor,
South Tower
9/11 Meeting called to assemble and silence
unreliable outside contractors?

39 Global Guardian,
STRATCOM: Offutt AFB,
Nebraska; Barksdale AFB,
Louisiana; Minot AFB,
North Dakota; Whiteman
AFB, Missouri.
9/11 Nuclear warfighting; Armageddon.
(deterrence of Russia and China during
invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan)

40 Amalgam Warrior 9/11 Large live-fly air defense and air intercept,
tracking, and surveillance drill; air defense
against foreign retaliation.

41 Crown Vigilance, Air
Combat Command
9/11 No details known.

42 Apollo Guardian, US
Space Command
9/11 No details known.

43 AWACS drill, ordered by
NORAD commander Gen.
Larry Arnold
9/11 Two AWACS aircraft from Tinker AFB,
Oklahoma sent over Washington DC and
Florida; surveillance of capital and
president during coup.

44 Global Guardian Computer
Network Attack
9/11 Enemy forces “war dialed” STRATCOM’s
telephone and fax systems; “bad insider”
has access to key C³ system (missile
launch option)

45 STRATCOM Strategic
Advisory Committee, Offutt
AFB, Nebraska; Andrews
AFB, MD; Wright-
Patterson AFB, Dayton,
Ohio.
9/11 Three E-4B National Airborne Operations
Center planes (Doomsday or Looking
Glass) airborne; passengers include Brent
Scowcroft; Warren Buffet at Offutt.
(Committee. of Public Safety option?))
After 9/11
Drill Date Scenario

46 Amalgam Virgo ‘02 Scheduled for June 2002 Air defense, interception, surveillance,
and pursuit drill; Delta 757 with real Delta
pilots, actors as passengers, FBI as
hijackers - deviated from Salt Lake City to
Hawaii; Canadian police to hijack DC-9
near Vancouver BC.

------------------------------------------------

the best 9-11 timeline on the net:

http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

I believe there was live simulations of hijackings with counter-hijacking methods to thwart these simulations planned under this umbrella exercise....like RC systems? Might that explain why a lot of folks from Raytheon's RC Division were onboard UA11 that day?

Because if 1 or more of these planes were involved, what are the chances that the hijackers would have picked this day and those plane(s) involved in this exercise? It'd be a miracle of coincidence.

Flight 77 which took off from Dulles airport in Washington D.C., was piloted by Capt. Charles Burlingame who was a Navy fighter pilot and once worked on anti-terrorism strategies in the Pentagon (the same area of the Pentagon that got hit), and one of the many unusual passengers on this flight.

"At Dulles Airport, Capt. Charles Burlingame, who had been a Navy F-4 pilot and once worked on anti-terrorism strategies in the Pentagon, was steering his 757, American Airlines Flight 77, down the runway for the long flight to Los Angeles." - Washington Post (09/16/04)

"Mark Burlingame said his brother was in the Navy Reserve and had worked in the same area of the Pentagon where the airliner crashed." - Newsday

this and much more at:

http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html

"none were part of the live drills that day" And how would we know if they were? I doubt that info would ever have leaked out of the Rumsfield's Pentagon. Would be just a little too coincidental, no? The Raytheon connection to UA11 and the war game sims gaming anti hi-jacking scenarios has always bothered me.

As for the 'official' 9-11 fable put out by the USA government, that, IMHO, is the true conspiracy theory, requiring so much willful denial of events and pure hard evidence that it boggles the mind. I do not pretend to know exactly how it happened, but I would bet my life that it didn't happen the way the official line says it did.

9/11: Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out, Full-length, Pre-Release-v1.3; Low-Res.



http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/629-world-premiere-tour-911-explosive-evidence-experts-speak-out-final-edition.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Government Admits Flight 93 Shot Down


In the prosecution of Bin Laden's driver at Gitmo, the government just made an interesting admission.

Prosecutor Timothy Stone made the admission in his opening remarks:


"If they hadn't shot down the fourth plane it would've hit the dome," Stone, a Navy officer, said in his opening remarks."


The quote originally appeared in a Reuters article, http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/07/23/us-guantanamo-hearings-hamdan-idUSN2230096620080723 which was then edited to omit the quote. It still appears in the version of the article posted in the Brisbane Times (Australia) and other newspapers.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/world/the-fourth-plane-wouldve-hit-the-dome/2008/07/23/1216492500620.html

"I do not pretend to know exactly how it happened, but I would bet my life that it didn't happen the way the official line says it did. "

That's really where I come down on the issue.

Anyone collecting or cleaning up debris at the Pentagon had to have a security clearance - at a very high level. A friend of mine was one of those people - he was called to come over to the Pentagon, given a hazmat suit, and instructed to start picking up any debris that might be classified. He was not trained to provide security - he was instructed to only search the ground for items that could be classified. So that would explain some of the personnel that you described.

Rumsfeld was running around the building telling everyone to find some link to Iraq.

The highways near and around the Pentagon are major arteries out of DC. DC is surrounded on 3 sides by water. To shut down those arteries would have prevented any evacuation of the city - which had started already. By the time I had made it out of the city into Arlington later that day, roads heading into DC were indeed blocked. I walked from the Metro past the blockade of National Guard, and saw a US Postal worker with a truck asking them what he was supposed to do with his truck full of mail if he could not get to the post office three blocks away.

I don't know about the seats. My neighbor Lennie was in one of them. He was on the phone with his wife in the last minutes of his life.

Edited to add: I'm aware of the controversy surrounding the number of cell phone calls made from flight 77. I only know what Karen told me much later.

DNA could survive an explosion, as lightweight fragments of bone, skin get blown away from the point of impact, and subsequent fireball.

There was DNA collected from the tops of buildings around the WTC.

The majority of the plane bodies in the WTC were consumed in the building collapse. However there are fragments of plane all over the place around the Pentagon, Jet engines landed on the street in NYC.

In the Pentagon, the plane hit the pavement first, then entered the building penetrating 3 of the rings - and causing damage to all 5. The roof over the plane held for about 35 minutes, thanks to the then recent reinforcements to that side of the building. This saved many lives due to evacuation. Then the roof collapsed and several stories of flaming debris and reinforced concrete caved in on the what was left of the burning wreckage.

Some small personal effects - and DNA - of passengers were found strewn away from area of the crash (some found by my friend), likely due to the blast on impact.

Show me the evidence for this claim.

It's also not strongly bolted to the airplane, and bits of light material containing DNA can be blown away from an explosion.


A building full of classified, and you're wondering why they're going around trying to collect stuff that came out of the building?

"But I bet no one here can find one picture of a seat."

Here, have two:

Seats:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1135588

Much of what is in the video isn't accurate or doesn't support the "truther" claims.

Perhaps you could visit that group and discuss the video in more detail.

... hadn't seen it but have been totally on-board with all of it since the beginning when my spidey sense caused me to ask that same question to my husband the night it happened. I remember saying "You don't think anyone would allow this to happen or cause it to happen on purpose, do you?" and 10 years later, that question is still out there.

Wonderful video. Reposted on FB and expect some fireworks.

...but what is the significance of the photo at 3'10"?

You know...anyone that does not believe the official story about anything.

LIHOP or any version thereof. Not. One. Word.

This is why CT'ers have such credibility problems: they simply declare things to be the way they believe them to be, facts be damned.

Why the Pentagon didn't protect itself or DC? Why can't we see another video of the Pentagon attack. We KNOW they have camera's EVERYWHERE. They are supposed to be working for us. Looking out for us. The second tower attack happened at 9:03, the Pentagon was hit around 9:46. What did they the Pentagon DO? How could our biggest defense building get hit by a passenger plane? Who is to BLAME?

They tell us don't blame anyone and go shopping. So we are the nuts? Don't you want what you pay for to work for you. (Pentagon). And if they fail, don't you want accountability? Or is that blurry video enough for you? It boggles my mind that people accept this and go on like it's the truth. Now imagine Obama's Pentagon getting hit. Do you think the Repukes are going to sit back and not blame anyone?

What "facts" do you have that supports the Pentagons actions that morning? Where were the missiles that should have protected the air space of DC? Who is supposed to take care of that? Oh, the Pentagon. Think about all the money we give them, and when they fail us, they say don't blame anyone, or you're unpatriotic if you do.

Does it make sense that our defense building gets attacked? Does it make sense that our defense building didn't even defend itself? Does it make sense or Secretary of Defense was helping victims rather than doing his job? How did he know it was over? How come he wasn't with the VP and SOS discussing what to do next behind closed doors? You guys who believe the Bush "story" don't expect much from your government if you're willing to be so lax as they are. The theft of the 2000 election was their preview.

By law, the military can't attack anyone inside the US, unless there is an invasion of the US. That's why there was a huge controversy when W created "Northern Command" - it's supposed to plan for military operations inside the US, but it would be illegal to perform such operations.

So even if there were any SAMs at the Pentagon, it would not be legal to fire them.

Not to mention that a SAM doesn't make the plane go "poof" like in a video game. Shooting down the plane would make the plane crash into civilians. The military would rather absorb the hit on a heavily reinforced military building than let it destroy a very large number of lightweight civilian buildings. Compare the damage and deaths between the WTC and the Pentagon, and you'll see why.

Strapped under the wings of F-15s flying in from Cape Cod. They hadn't arrived yet when the plane hit. And they weren't being sent to intercept the plane anyway because nobody knew it was there.

Before 9/11, our air defense doctrine was to intercept aircraft over the ocean before they reached the US. So our defenses were set up to do that, not respond to an attack originating inside the US. Because the threat model was Soviet bombers, not commandeered civilian aircraft.

As part of this doctrine, radar systems inside the US were not built to detect aircraft. They were built to trigger transponders in aircraft. This requires much lower power radar, so there's major benefits for doing it this way. More powerful radars were essentially "pointed" outside the US, looking for incoming bombers.

Since the 9/11 hijackers turned off the transponders, there was no way to know exactly where the aircraft were. They weren't in the view of the more powerful radars. So no one knew the plane was flying towards the DC area, so it couldn't be intercepted.

AWACS aircraft were put into the air as the situation unfolded, because they have radar that can detect aircraft with transponders turned off. That's why it was possible to send fighters to intercept the plane that crashed in the corn field. But AWACS aircraft were not "on standby", so it took a bit to get into the air (gotta find the crew, fuel the aircraft, figure out where exactly to fly the plane, and so on).


Because he's largely unnecessary for such a response. The Secretary of Defense is a bureaucrat. His primary job is to pay the bills and oversee the civilians that work for the DoD.

The people who actually know something about military strategy are the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They would be the ones consulted on a military response, and in fact they were the ones consulted on a military response.

I've had many such posts thrown in the dungeon because I dared question the "official story," and I have maintained for years that eventually and little-by-little, the truth will come out.

Dick Cheney* knew more about 9/11 than Saddam Hussein.

Thank you for my next bumper sticker!

-90% jimmy

that means everything the foil hatters said was right?

Everything would also include the ton of disinformation that is created to cover up the lie...and in fact is the reason for the disinformation...to give us all the ability to say what you said...you mean you believe that alien reptiles rule this world?...if you believe one you must believe them all.
The best way to hide the truth is to cover it with a pile of shit.

The reason for the lie was to cover up the truth that 9/11 was a false flag operation designed to get us into a permanent war...and the facts are there and are numerous.but if you are afraid of being accused of wearing a tin foil hat you will never look at them.

Anyone who didn't believe the official explanation from the Bush White House is an idiot, a twoofer, belongs in the dungeon with all the other kooks.

Someone says that on DU nearly every day.

This report must be wrong.

please drive thru.

"unauthorized use of a government vehicle" my ass.

RIP John O'Neill
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/

If you have the time.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1981225573970187433

gives me a headache

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/expert-panel-reports-false-accounts-of-us-political-and-military-leaders-on-911-2012-06-05

http://consortiumnews.com/2011/08/16/did-tenet-hide-key-911-info/

I've always thought we needed a new criminal investigation.

The Republicans were claiming the Clinton administration was exaggerating the treat of Islamic terrorism to distract the country from the Lewinski scandal. They railed about a million dollar missile taking out a ten dollar tent and called them "Monica Missiles". The movie "Wag The Dog" was all about a president using a war to distract everyone from his criminality and the Republicans kept repeating that crap until it became a FACT in their bubble. Any word about terrorism coming from any agency was seen as former Clinton loyalists trying to cover for their ex-boss. The attitude was one of, "Didn't you get the memo? That whole "terrorism" thing is over. We're in charge now.". Bush probably thought it was also a personal insult and purely a political move to try to pin anything on a member of the bin Laden family because of his ties to them.

Their focus was on finding an excuse to invade Iraq for multiple reasons:

Bush could stop the criticism against his family for not "finishing the job" during Desert Storm.

The Neocons were all set to go with their plan to take power over the world's oil and Cheney was carving up Iraq like a side of beef with oil company execs.

Then there was Bush's good buddies the Saudis who saw Saddam was trying to get the sanctions lifted by fully cooperating with the UN. Iraq was about to become a major threat by opening up untapped reserves that would flood the market and drop the price of oil globally which would make Saudi and Texas oil less profitable.

9/11 came at just the right time. Bush's poll numbers were at an all time low because of his domestic policies and ties to Ken Lay and his defending the accounting tricks in the Enron scandal. His tax cuts for the rich were wildly unpopular and he was pushing unneeded and unwanted Reagan Era SDI programs even though the Soviet Union didn't exist anymore. To top it off, word was about to come out that Gore actually got more votes in Florida so Bush didn't really win the election after all.

I recall an article I read many years ago (but after 9/11) about what you mentioned and the image of Bin Laden had lighting that appeared to be a halo over his head.

especially that first paragraph.

I really think it was a matter of Bush's legacy... the guy and his admin were simply incompetent -- where not innately incompetent, practically incompetent due to ideological tunnel vision.

And like all good vulture capitalists, opportunistic.

acknowledges they admit war can be reduced to a tool to deceive the public.

I have NEVER accused Dubya of being behind 9/11 but I HAVE accused him of being the type that would go along with it if the Pentagon and Cheney told him it would lead to an invasion of Iraq.

Let's face it. The Pentagon was facing actual extinction as a Cold War relic.

Being included in the attack guaranteed their participation and continued survival.

In hindsight though,....think about it....

Bush and company claimed al Qaeda was a powerful organization in 70 different countries and was described like they were the real life version of Ian Flemming's "Spectre" when they were little more than a biker gang. A failed one at that, having only a handful of members who'd been sent of to the ends of the earth. For THAT the Pentagon got a huge budget increase and pulled the dust cover off of some of their dream toys.

in his own words.

So did the Saudis.

long before the 9/11 attacks. I forget where I read that.

telling everyone to find a link to Iraq.

being told something was going to hit Washington and was ordering a stand down.

The Pentagon has AUTOMATIC defenses that had to be SHUT OFF for a plane to get through.

What got me was the guy they claim was the pilot previously worked in the Pentagon and took part in a simulated attack of a plane hitting the Pentagon.

If there were exercise going on that day it would make sense. They wouldn't know if it were friend or foe. I was always led to believe that the Pentagon was like a fortress and could detect 'enemy' aircraft. It does sound like someone did shut off the defenses on 9/11/01?

Which pilot worked in the Pentagon?

Of course the original Washington Post article about him taking part in exercises where an airliner hits the Pentagon have been conveniently scrubbed.

As have a LOT of articles from that time that don't fit the sanctioned version of events.

Even before Bush's administration came to power an article written by his then national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, warned that "nothing will change" in Iraq until Saddam was gone, Sir Peter Ricketts, a former chairman of the joint intelligence committee (JIC) and now the Foreign Office's top official, told the inquiry.

"We were aware of these drumbeats from Washington and internally we discussed it. Our policy was to stay away from that part of the spectrum," added Sir William Patey, then head of the Middle East department at the Foreign Office.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/nov/24/iraq-war-chilcot-inquiry

To top it off, word was about to come out that Gore actually got more votes in Florida so Bush didn't really win the election after all.


Weren't those results to be made public on Sept 12?

Ain't that a hell of a coinkydink?

They're at GWU's NSA...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB381/

thanks

LOL! Yes and Osama bin Laden told the Pentagon to stand down and do NOTHING for 40 minutes after the second tower was attacked. Was Osama the President? LOL! Oh but let's not blame anyone. Even our Billion dollar defense building has it's flaws after all. I bet on 09/10/01 anyone could have strolled through the lawns of the Pentagon without even being noticed.

Apparently though, someone did, and they stole 2.3 Trillion dollars. Oh My! Too bad the Pentagon doesn't have ANY camera's to catch the thief. They surely couldn't catch a passenger jet. LOL!

9/11 happened just as planned for the most part. Most believe their "story". And they made sure to make doubters like myself look crazy. But in reality, they expect us to believe in crazy shit. Like the Pentagon did NOT protect us. How does a Billion dollar outfit not protect itself? How come nobody's heads rolled? Why are so many satisfied with a blurry video of the Pentagon? Is it too much to ask for others without being called a nut?

Shouldn't we hold them accountable for their failure? Why does our defense building get a pass? There's a reason for ignoring all the "warnings". They needed Osama alive to make him the boogy man.

Monsters.

that the plane that hit the building wouldn't fit through.

Just the ones that make the Bush administration look bad.

...I guess that is all of them.

Were the passengers shipped off to Gitmo? For the rational snopes has a good article on this exposing how stupid these conspiracy theories are about the Pentagon attack. http://snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp

The flight list didn't have the "terrorist" names on it. The DNA was identified but the plane melted? How does DNA survive, but no reconstruction of a plane? The FAA usually does reconstructions. How come no reconstructions were done on 9/11 planes? Remember flight 800 to Paris? Why do you accept a blurry video of the Pentagon attack with all the camera's available? Is that acceptable to you that our defense building can't even defend itself?

And why didn't these "friendly" pilots "terrorist" not fly out of NY? I guess flying over military bases was easier than hijacking a plane after take off from JFK and turning it around. But, you go on. We're the stupid ones after all.