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TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 10:59 AM Aug 2016

Trump: Wind power ‘kills all your birds’

Source: The Hill

Donald Trump bashed renewable energy sources Monday night, saying solar power doesn’t work well and wind turbines kill birds.

The GOP presidential nominee has stated his preference for fossil fuels like coal and natural gas, and has previously said that solar power is unreliable and wind turbines are harmful to wildlife and unsightly.

“It’s so expensive,” Trump said of alternative energy at a rally in Pennsylvania.

“And honestly, it’s not working so good. I know a lot about solar. I love solar. But the payback is what, 18 years? Oh great, let me do it. Eighteen years,” he said, turning to wind power. “The wind kills all your birds. All your birds, killed. You know, the environmentalists never talk about that.”

Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/290093-trump-wind-power-kills-all-your-birds



I guess since Trump is also pushing the idea that global warming is a hoax, I can see why he is attacking alternative energy sources.
67 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Trump: Wind power ‘kills all your birds’ (Original Post) TomCADem Aug 2016 OP
It's hard to wait for the time when we don't have to read moonscape Aug 2016 #1
November, hopefully, should be soon enough. maddiemom Aug 2016 #42
Wind power doesn't affect my birds. And I have two birds for you. One on each hand! Feeling the Bern Aug 2016 #2
Something killed all his birds packman Aug 2016 #4
Both barrels, baby. Iggo Aug 2016 #13
Thanksgiving is going to suck this year underpants Aug 2016 #3
DUZY! trof Aug 2016 #14
Donald Duh graegoyle Aug 2016 #39
Then what will he do for brains? NT mahatmakanejeeves Aug 2016 #5
Cause oil is awesome for birds (WARNING - SAD BIRD PIC) auntpurl Aug 2016 #6
You beat me to it! Else You Are Mad Aug 2016 #9
I remember someone here at DU PatSeg Aug 2016 #15
The people who are against wind mills.. Else You Are Mad Aug 2016 #21
Yes that is what I believe PatSeg Aug 2016 #24
Windmills CAN be a huge issue if they are sited improperly dbackjon Aug 2016 #27
There are new designs being developed that are safe for birds. Kablooie Aug 2016 #32
That is good to hear PatSeg Aug 2016 #34
See? Wind power covers birds with oil! Shameful! Kablooie Aug 2016 #30
As usual, Trump is full of shit... TreasonousBastard Aug 2016 #7
That source is inaccurate - actual deaths are closer to a million/year. dbackjon Aug 2016 #28
I agree it's not that accurate, but no one seems to know... TreasonousBastard Aug 2016 #31
The problem is that the answer isn't to the question that's asked. Igel Aug 2016 #49
OK, so any idea what is total number of birds, bats, butterflies and whatever else is killed... TreasonousBastard Aug 2016 #55
Birds, about 150,000 I think Bradical79 Aug 2016 #57
Then everyone should switch to dogs, obviously. milestogo Aug 2016 #67
There is never a shade of gray with this dim-witted man bucolic_frolic Aug 2016 #8
Your big shiny buildings kill PatSeg Aug 2016 #10
Good point. Of course Feral Cats are the number one killer of birds. dbackjon Aug 2016 #29
Oh my god PatSeg Aug 2016 #36
LOL dbackjon Aug 2016 #38
Same here! maddiemom Aug 2016 #43
I love cats stage left Aug 2016 #53
I've known a few obnoxious PatSeg Aug 2016 #56
Even the one stage left Aug 2016 #59
We had a stray cat PatSeg Aug 2016 #60
Darth cat. stage left Aug 2016 #61
He was all black PatSeg Aug 2016 #62
I feel obligated to interject only to put my cat's name out there. Sand Rat Expat Aug 2016 #66
And when I thought we'd never see another birdbrain on the level of the Alaska half-term governor groundloop Aug 2016 #11
Palin rarely made any sense, PatSeg Aug 2016 #18
"know a lot about" sarcasmo Aug 2016 #12
Then shut your mouth you blowhard! mwooldri Aug 2016 #16
That should really fire up the Stein vote. bluedigger Aug 2016 #17
That bloviating windbag IronLionZion Aug 2016 #19
Statistically speaking, this is untrue ck4829 Aug 2016 #20
Trump is a typical real estate person ... VMA131Marine Aug 2016 #22
It's the flying turbines that kill the birds...... msanthrope Aug 2016 #23
He's a business owner. Shouldn't he be innovating and supporting innovations? Hissyspit Aug 2016 #25
"it’s not working so good" left-of-center2012 Aug 2016 #26
Like he gives a Astraea Aug 2016 #33
Here's your bird dumbass... 63splitwindow Aug 2016 #35
F you, Donny. roamer65 Aug 2016 #37
Trump is still bitter about losing that lawsuit to stop the wind farm next to his golf course. SunSeeker Aug 2016 #40
The dingbats that listen to him will believe him liberal N proud Aug 2016 #41
This is ALL about his bitter loss to the wind farm by his golf course. truthisfreedom Aug 2016 #44
Trump = Beyond Stupid Yallow Aug 2016 #45
Actually.... billpolonsky Aug 2016 #46
Donald Trump, bird expert, speaks. tclambert Aug 2016 #47
So do airplanes cannabis_flower Aug 2016 #48
All your birds? All, except for the ones killed by tall buildings. JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2016 #50
The guy really needs to go back to school. nt tawadi Aug 2016 #51
"I know a lot about solar. I love solar." True Dough Aug 2016 #52
You wanna talk birds, Trump! You are bat shit crazy! cornball 24 Aug 2016 #54
(Dump)’s but a walking shadow, a poor player maxsolomon Aug 2016 #58
Because the coal-fired plants he wants to support are SOOO much better for birds NickB79 Aug 2016 #63
This one's worse than Reagan's claim that "trees cause air pollution." forest444 Aug 2016 #64
Isn't he the eloquent one? llmart Aug 2016 #65

moonscape

(4,673 posts)
1. It's hard to wait for the time when we don't have to read
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:07 AM
Aug 2016

all the nonsense he spews. January can't come soon enough ... (except for missing Obama!)

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
9. You beat me to it!
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:15 AM
Aug 2016

Oil kills all our birds, dolphin, fish, shrimp, crabs, humans that eat the poisoned sea life...

PatSeg

(47,602 posts)
15. I remember someone here at DU
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:19 AM
Aug 2016

a few years ago actually objected to windmills because "they kill birds". My reaction was pictures like that. This was before I realized there were professional corporate trolls everywhere.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
21. The people who are against wind mills..
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:51 AM
Aug 2016

On land or sea are generally against them only because it ruins their property values or are somehow making money from the oil industry. Anyone that says "won't you please think of the birds" really don't care about the birds.

PatSeg

(47,602 posts)
24. Yes that is what I believe
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 12:02 PM
Aug 2016

And as far as ruining property values, the oil spill in the gulf not only killed plants, birds, and fish, it ruined property values there and the tourist trade for a long time.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
27. Windmills CAN be a huge issue if they are sited improperly
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 12:24 PM
Aug 2016

No, it doesn't kill all the birds, but it kills current 600-750 THOUSAND a year.

Mortality up to 5 million a year is projected if wind power reaches the 35% goal.


It has nothing to do with being corporate trolls. Most conservationist are not opposed to wind power. Any form of energy is going to kill wildlife. But an understanding of the impact, and denying permits in certain areas is definitely in order.



The spoon-billed sandpiper will likely go extinct because of solar power.

http://www.saving-spoon-billed-sandpiper.com/

Kablooie

(18,641 posts)
32. There are new designs being developed that are safe for birds.
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 12:43 PM
Aug 2016

It is an issue that is being worked on.
Bats are also a consideration.

PatSeg

(47,602 posts)
34. That is good to hear
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 12:52 PM
Aug 2016

because at the rate we are going, most life forms could end up extinct if we keep relying on fossil fuels.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
7. As usual, Trump is full of shit...
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:14 AM
Aug 2016

and I guarantee you he doesn't give a damn about any dead birds.

Windmills are one of the least damaging things to birds:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/wind-turbine-kill-birds.htm

(Feral cats are #1, btw)

And, if anyone cares about birds, it these people:

http://www.audubon.org/content/audubons-position-wind-power

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
31. I agree it's not that accurate, but no one seems to know...
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 12:41 PM
Aug 2016

most of the other estimates I've seen are several hundred thousand a year.

The point is that windmills do kill birds, but most of the things we do kill birds one way or another.

And, Trump just throws things out there for effect, not knowledge.

Igel

(35,359 posts)
49. The problem is that the answer isn't to the question that's asked.
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 05:39 PM
Aug 2016

"How many birds are killed each year by wind turbines?" versus "How many are killed each year by collisions with wind turbines?"

"Collisions with wind turbines account for about one-tenth of a percent of all "unnatural" bird deaths in the United States each year. "


They're not the same. As with bat fatalities, most birds die because of the pressure differential that the birds fly through. It ruptures their longs without their being any impact.

Hand grenades often kill the same way: A wave of high pressure is followed by a wave of low pressure, and the lung membrane's shredded. Blast fishing creates the same kind of rupture with fish air bladders for all the same reasons.

"Blast lung refers to severe pulmonary contusion, bleeding or swelling with damage to alveoli and blood vessels, or a combination of these.[3] It is the most common cause of death among people who initially survive an explosion.[4]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_injury

Note that birds have a different lung structure from mammals, and also have air sacs for increased buoyancy., so they're more sensitive to overpressure (and the following underpressure) waves than, say, humans.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
55. OK, so any idea what is total number of birds, bats, butterflies and whatever else is killed...
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 07:24 PM
Aug 2016

by wind turbines?

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
57. Birds, about 150,000 I think
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 07:46 PM
Aug 2016

It's an extemely low number relative to just everything else. For example cats kill about 1 billion to 3 billion.

bucolic_frolic

(43,295 posts)
8. There is never a shade of gray with this dim-witted man
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:15 AM
Aug 2016

Everything is in the superlative, good or bad

and it's all what goes on in his own mind

Don't ever let reality intrude

PatSeg

(47,602 posts)
60. We had a stray cat
Thu Aug 4, 2016, 02:01 PM
Aug 2016

that used to visit our yard and we called him Darth Cat - much better than TrumpCat!

PatSeg

(47,602 posts)
62. He was all black
Thu Aug 4, 2016, 02:33 PM
Aug 2016

with long hair, very menacing fellow. I think he probably fathered most of the stray cats in the neighborhood. Much better looking than TrumpCat!

Sand Rat Expat

(290 posts)
66. I feel obligated to interject only to put my cat's name out there.
Thu Aug 4, 2016, 11:33 PM
Aug 2016

He's a bigass fluffy half-or-maybe-more Maine Coon named... wait for it...

Chairman Meow!

My old roomie named him, and against all odds, it just stuck. From that day to this, he has been "The Chairman."

groundloop

(11,523 posts)
11. And when I thought we'd never see another birdbrain on the level of the Alaska half-term governor
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:16 AM
Aug 2016

OMG, he's totally made it down to her level, I didn't think that was possible.

PatSeg

(47,602 posts)
18. Palin rarely made any sense,
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:20 AM
Aug 2016

but I have to say she had a bigger vocabulary than Trump. Guess that made for bigger word salads.

sarcasmo

(23,968 posts)
12. "know a lot about"
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:17 AM
Aug 2016


The catchphrase Trump loves the most. I know a lot about, insert topic. Bat shit crazy.

mwooldri

(10,303 posts)
16. Then shut your mouth you blowhard!
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:20 AM
Aug 2016

Donald Trump is a windbag. He says wind power kills birds.

Therefore he should shut up and deflate for a while.

IronLionZion

(45,534 posts)
19. That bloviating windbag
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:21 AM
Aug 2016

the bullshit spewing forth from his mouth kills brain cells of all who listen to him.

For those who are concerned about the birds. Yes, during a storm a flock of birds got lost and ran into a windfarm and died. Under normal conditions birds will steer clear of windmills. They know it is something to avoid. Same deal with stationary objects like tall buildings. They can see that windmills blades are moving objects to avoid. And anyone who has actually seen a windmill in action can see how birds can easily avoid the blades. It's big and not that fast.

On the flip side, having wind farms can also lessen the impact of windy storms like hurricanes.

ck4829

(35,091 posts)
20. Statistically speaking, this is untrue
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:35 AM
Aug 2016

Gas fumes and liquid runoff from fossil fuel plants are several times more dangerous to wildlife.

VMA131Marine

(4,149 posts)
22. Trump is a typical real estate person ...
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 11:57 AM
Aug 2016

anything with a payback of more that 1 or 2 years is not worth considering. Solar power requires a life-cycle cost or net present value approach, under which it most certainly makes sense; that's why these solar companies are springing up all over the place.

Wind power is certainly competitive with coal and possibly natural gas at this point and the cost is not subject to the whims of the energy market.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
23. It's the flying turbines that kill the birds......
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 12:00 PM
Aug 2016

To the Jury.....no actual DUER was harmed in the making of this very inside baseball and tongue in cheek post.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
25. He's a business owner. Shouldn't he be innovating and supporting innovations?
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 12:02 PM
Aug 2016
http://www.wired.com/2015/05/future-wind-turbines-no-blades/

AUTHOR: LIZ STINSON. LIZ STINSON DESIGN DATE OF PUBLICATION: 05.15.15.

THE FUTURE OF WIND TURBINES? NO BLADES

IT’S NO LONGER SURPRISING TO encounter 100-foot pinwheels spinning in the breeze as you drive down the highway. But don’t get too comfortable with that view. A Spanish company called Vortex Bladeless is proposing a radical new way to generate wind energy that will once again upend what you see outside your car window.

- snip -

The Vortex’s shape was developed computationally to ensure the spinning wind (vortices) occurs synchronously along the entirety of the mast. “The swirls have to work together to achieve good performance,” Villarreal explains. In its current prototype, the elongated cone is made from a composite of fiberglass and carbon fiber, which allows the mast to vibrate as much as possible (an increase in mass reduces natural frequency). At the base of the cone are two rings of repelling magnets, which act as a sort of nonelectrical motor. When the cone oscillates one way, the repelling magnets pull it in the other direction, like a slight nudge to boost the mast’s movement regardless of wind speed. This kinetic energy is then converted into electricity via an alternator that multiplies the frequency of the mast’s oscillation to improve the energy-gathering efficiency.

Its makers boast the fact that there are no gears, bolts, or mechanically moving parts, which they say makes the Vortex cheaper to manufacture and maintain. The founders claim their Vortex Mini, which stands at around 41 feet tall, can capture up to 40 percent of the wind’s power during ideal conditions (this is when the wind is blowing at around 26 miles per hour). Based on field testing, the Mini ultimately captures 30 percent less than conventional wind turbines, but that shortcoming is compensated by the fact that you can put double the Vortex turbines into the same space as a propeller turbine.

The Vortex team says there are some clear advantages to their model: It’s less expensive to manufacture, totally silent, and safer for birds since there are no blades to fly into. Vortex Bladeless says its turbine would cost around 51 percent less than a traditional turbine whose major costs come from the blades and support system. Plus, Suriol says, it’s pretty cool-looking. “It looks like asparagus,” he says. “It’s much more natural.”

MORE AT LINK

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
26. "it’s not working so good"
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 12:16 PM
Aug 2016

Where did he learn English?
He used to demand Obama's school records be made public.
I'd like to see Trump's. They be not so good, I betcha!

 

63splitwindow

(2,657 posts)
35. Here's your bird dumbass...
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 12:54 PM
Aug 2016


Lets spell that out for you asswipe:

source: New York Times

Obama Says Republicans Should Withdraw Support for Trump

WASHINGTON — In his strongest denunciation of Donald J. Trump so far, President Obama on Tuesday said Mr. Trump was “unfit to serve as president” and urged the leaders of the Republican Party to withdraw their backing for his candidacy.

Mr. Obama said the Republican criticisms of Mr. Trump “ring hollow” if the party’s leaders continue to support his bid for the presidency this fall, particularly in light of Republican criticisms of Mr. Trump for his attacks on the Muslim parents of an American soldier, Humayun Khan, who died in Iraq.

“The question they have to ask themselves is: If you are repeatedly having to say in very strong terms that what he has said is unacceptable, why are you still endorsing him?” Mr. Obama said at a news conference at the White House.
...
..."

more at: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/us/politics/president-obama-donald-trump.html?_r=0

SunSeeker

(51,715 posts)
40. Trump is still bitter about losing that lawsuit to stop the wind farm next to his golf course.
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 01:34 PM
Aug 2016

He doesn't care about birds. He just thinks wind farms spoil the ocean view from his Scottish golf course.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-loses-battle-to-stop-wind-farm-near-his-scottish-golf-resort-1450275439

truthisfreedom

(23,155 posts)
44. This is ALL about his bitter loss to the wind farm by his golf course.
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 02:20 PM
Aug 2016

He's just a bitter old man.

Wind is a wonderful source of energy. Luckily, Trump is only in charge of two things: Going bankrupt and getting divorced.

 

billpolonsky

(270 posts)
46. Actually....
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 02:40 PM
Aug 2016

A cursory, I mean very cursory, search on Google came up with this study.

"Window strikes – estimated to kill 97 to 976 million birds/year – Millions of houses and buildings, with their billions of windows, pose a significant threat to birds. Birds see the natural habitat mirrored in the glass and fly directly into the window, causing injury and, in 50% or more of the cases, death. Simple steps can be taken to reduce the number of birds striking windows."

http://www.sibleyguides.com/conservation/causes-of-bird-mortality/

Seems Trump's passion for building large glass buildings is a leading cause of bird mortality...

SCIENCE!....

tclambert

(11,087 posts)
47. Donald Trump, bird expert, speaks.
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 02:55 PM
Aug 2016




Bet he wants that bird to fly into a windmill. (Those tiny hands sure look like mice.)

True Dough

(17,327 posts)
52. "I know a lot about solar. I love solar."
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 06:05 PM
Aug 2016

"Cuz I'm practically the same color as the sun. Not from solar rays, of course, but from a spray bottle."




maxsolomon

(33,400 posts)
58. (Dump)’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
Tue Aug 2, 2016, 07:52 PM
Aug 2016

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage

And then is heard no more. It is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.

NickB79

(19,271 posts)
63. Because the coal-fired plants he wants to support are SOOO much better for birds
Thu Aug 4, 2016, 07:41 PM
Aug 2016


I mean, look at all that habitat for the birds to nest in, and find food in!

And did I mention the quality of the air they get to inhale? Wonderful, especially when it pumps fish full of delicious, nutritious mercury and arsenic!

?itok=Ci4WtXZh

forest444

(5,902 posts)
64. This one's worse than Reagan's claim that "trees cause air pollution."
Thu Aug 4, 2016, 07:58 PM
Aug 2016

Then as now though, it appealed to the anti-intellectual streak in the GOP because that's just how insecure most Republicans are.

llmart

(15,553 posts)
65. Isn't he the eloquent one?
Thu Aug 4, 2016, 10:06 PM
Aug 2016

I swear, he can't even use proper grammar and his comments are always on about a 4th grade level.

Geez, what a doofus.

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