Thank you Bernie!

At least the Trump supporters genuinely think they're doing the country a service by electing the daughter-fucking Cheeto. The hardcore Bernie holdouts are actively trying to screw us all over, in order to "send a message to the establishment". They don't care about the people whose lives and livelihoods will be jeopardized under a Trump presidency. Revolution takes sacrifice! Just as long as they aren't the ones making it. It's childish and selfish and it disgusts me. It's the same "I've got mine, fuck everyone else" attitude that Republicans have.

When has big business EVER cooperated and respected in regards to labor and the environment? Talk about unicorns farting rainbows.

They were all on board for Bernie, but have either gone third party or checked out completely for the general.

My son (college freshmen) is largely reporting the same thing, though a few of his friends are Trumpsters.

Most of them look at a Clinton/Trump contest as "lose/lose" and just don't give a shit anymore.

I would not want to be known as the generation who ushered in President Trump.

An awful lot of young voters, and Sanders supporters, so far seem unwilling to bite the bullet and vote for Clinton. They may learn the hard way how much worse things can get.

Donald Trump might as well have been invented in a laboratory by liberals to be the most repulsive, ogreish, unpopular presidential candidate in the history of our republic.
So how the hell is Hillary Clinton barely beating him?
Certainly, a great deal of the blame for our terrifying circumstances lies with Clinton herself. She is an abominable candidate, a wooden speaker, a cynical triangulator, and—to put it kindly—ethically challenged.

But she also has something very important in her favor.
She’s running against Donald Trump.
I’m not going to rehearse the case against the Republican nominee in this space because I’ve done it so many times before. Needless to say, Trump is the most manifestly unfit presidential candidate ever to win the nomination of a major American political party. He is a racist. A proto-authoritarian. A menace to the free world.
Yet despite running against a candidate who combines the racial divisiveness of George Wallace with the pro-Russian sympathies of Henry Wallace, Hillary Clinton has barely been able to break 48 percent in any national poll. She does significantly better in head-to-head match-ups than in the actual four-way race, thanks to the not insignificant number of voters expressing support for Libertarian Gary Johnson and Green Party standard-bearer Jill Stein. Support for these minor candidates is most pronounced among a crucial demographic, my demographic: millennials. Twenty-six percent of voters aged 18-29 say they will vote for Johnson; 10 percent back Stein.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/16/if-america-elects-a-president-donald-j-trump-blame-millennials.html

"I'd rather see the whole world get nuked by President Trump than vote against my conscience and my precious sensibilities! Revolution takes sacrifice and I'm willing to throw my LGBT, female, and minority friends under the bus to accomplish that! If more blacks fall victim to another Dylann Roof or George Zimmerman, if my gay friends lose their right to marry, if my poor friends end up living in cardboard boxes, SO BE IT! I don't have anything to lose, I'll just smoke pot in Mommy and Daddy's basement for the next 4-8 years!"

And they complain when people call them out as the petulant, spoiled, self-righteous babies they are.

A nuclear war will result in our deaths. The horror of living under his policies are worse.

The vast majority of Bernie supporters will vote for Hillary to keep Trump out of the White House, the minority are like the Republican tea party, make a lot of noise and cause a lot of trouble but are not in the majority.

and apparently the 3rd party backers tend to chicken out towards the end and vote for one of the actual choices.

It's great that Bernie is out there trying to get his supporters to do the right thing and vote for Hillary.

We have to keep in mind that the crucial point about young people is that being young means being relatively inexperienced. Young people cannot remember historical events that happened before they were born. They could overcome this to some extent by reading, studying, doing research; but most people don't do that. It isn't fair for us to expect naive kids to understand topics far from their experience. They don't remember how Hitler came to power, and most of them have never listened to or read the writings of anyone who does remember. It's our job to help them learn and gain insight into how things work, including elections. They think it can't happen here, just as others have thought before them, and learned the hard way.

You might try talking to your fellow-millenials about some historical parallels, try to get them around to understanding what can happen and why a protest vote is wasted. However, it's better for the future that they vote for Johnson rather than for Trump, and it's better if they stay home rather than vote for Trump.

Overcome the feelings of frustration and try to think of anything you might be able to do that would bring them around.

Last edited Mon Sep 19, 2016, 01:14 PM - Edit history (1)

flipped to Hillary and his friends now treat him like he's a traitor on Facebook. He recently worked a couple music festivals in CO & OH where angry Sanders supporters would walk right up to him and say something snarky, rude, nasty.

What's funny is they pride themselves on tolerance, love but I saw a very different side of them on Facebook.

They are white college educated well traveled and spent many hours of their college years on the internet distrusting government and sadly buying into too many conspiracy theories.

My son is taking baby steps after the primary to introduce Hillary in positive light by posting informative articles or videos but sometimes he ends up taking it down because he get's so much grief for daring to support her.

Here is a link to the debunking of the one about the Clintons having their enemies killed over the years:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp

Politifact.org and FactCheck.org are also good sites, besides Snopes.com

In 2008 my niece was adamant that Hillary couldn't be trusted as a VP pick for Obama because of the alleged history of the Clintons killing off people. Wonder who started that rumor, right? Anyway Snopes.com debunks it. A lot of young people, lacking practical experience, easily fall victim to the considerable efforts that have been made over the years to slander the Clintons.

Here are more helpful debunkings -- but new conspiracies are fabricated regularly to replace the old ones

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-calls-for-americans-to-respect-and-empathize-with-isis/

http://www.snopes.com/pa-and-oh-voters-white-trash/

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-dead-and-cloned/

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-campaign-overcharging-donors/

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-was-responsible-for-the-waco-massacre/

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-1-year-to-live/

http://www.snopes.com/clinton-reported-dead-replaced/

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-barnwell-body-double/

http://www.snopes.com/julian-assange-bernie-sanders-was-threatened/

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-has-parkinsons-disease/

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-secret-earpiece/

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-told-seventeen-magazine-she-didnt-want-her-daughter-marrying-a-black-man/

Of course the above is just a small sample. Might help when talking to people under the sway of conspiracy theories, though. He could post them on his FB even

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/opinion/field-guide-to-defending-hillary-clinton-against-fake-scandals/24710/

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/debunking-anti-hillary-clinton-myths-lies-conspiracies/

Each generation has caused harm. Although gen X brought in president Clinton so we turned out well.

Last edited Sun Sep 18, 2016, 09:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Not me of course, I voted for Carter, Mondale and cried like a baby when both lost.

Why Reagan was reelected is a mystery to me - unemployment was high - Morning In America was popular, Dukakas got into a tank and that was the end.
Many of my peers were just starting to make money and were digging those tax cuts - I can't tell you how many times
I heard "I'm fiscally conservative, socially liberal" which translated back to loving those tax cuts. The term Reagan Democrats was how they described my peers.

Greed was good and cocaine was everywhere - all my gay friends died from AIDS. Many of my liberal friends did not vote until 92 when Clinton fired us up.

Ushering in Donald Trump out of spite, hate, conspiracy theories and misinformation would be a travesty for the entire planet.

of how democracy works.

And a man of his word. He backs the nominee 100%.

Depends who they would have voted for if no third-party candidate was there.
Johnson's Libertarian views are a natural magnet for disaffected right-wingers. Any votes he can draw away from Trump are all to the good.
The Green Party is the natural magnet for disaffected Dems, but Stein is not drawing very many, possibly because she isn't doing much Green campaigning, most noticeably just anti-Hillary; and any third-party anti-Hillary votes tend by nature to go to Johnson.

-- and the math is wrong on this meme. It isn't an entire vote for the other candidate. It's a fraction of a vote. Voting third party is the same as staying home (mathematically). If everybody stays home, it doesn't mean the opposition wins, it means nobody wins.

What we want is for the opposition voters to stay home, or vote third-party.

It certainly doesn't matter if you vote for Johnson (ugh! Why?) or Stein (yuk) in Oklahoma, Wyoming, or New York.

There is no excuse for voting for a Democrat voting for either Stein or Johnson. Remember 2000 and Nader

This is a democratic board and we should not condone or encourage voters to vote for third party candidates. It is clear to me that a vote for Stein or Johnson is a vote for Trump. We saw how this worked in 2000

I am merely pointing out that under our current system, unless the state is in play, voting 3rd party won't make a difference.

A vote for Johnson or Stein is a vote for trump. We can not condone or ignore these votes.

If you are talking about looking at totals nationally, and what they represent, then why on earth would you count them "for Trump"? That makes zero sense.

A vote for Trump is a vote for Trump, and a vote for Johnson is a vote for Johnson, in that case.

I support Hillary 100%, but she's not going to lose (at this point at least) because of Johnson or Stein. Neither one is polling anywhere near enough to be a spoiler for Hillary. Johnson might be a spoiler for Trump, but even that is doubtful. Even less likely, since he is not going to be part of the debates.

Go ahead and preach party unity, I'm all about that! I think every Democrat who doesn't vote for Hillary is nuts. But trying to say that anyone who is voting for Johnson or Stein is really voting for Trump just simply isn't true.

Votes for Stein or Johnson are the same as a vote for Trump. No true Democrat should be considering voting for Stein or Johnson and should not be condoning the casting of votes for Trump in any case

Right now Johnson and Stein are indeed making sufficient difference to swing the election to Trump. Again, a vote for Johnson or Stein is a vote for trump

Please read my previous post more carefully.

Just because I disagree with what you are saying does not mean I am in favor of either of those two candidates.

I AM NOT!

I was merely trying to explain to you how our electoral college works. AT THIS POINT, there are only a relative HANDFUL of states that will decide the presidential election. Unless someone lives in one of those states, a vote for a third party candidate will make ZERO difference in the outcome of this election.

The polls are too close for comfortable and having DUer condone and approve people voting for Stein or Johnson is not acceptable on this board. I am working on the Victory Counsel program and I live in a red state that we are working to turn blue. No votes for Stein or Johnson are acceptable in my book and condoning such votes is also unacceptable.

I strongly disagree that it is okay for democrats or voters in non-battleground states to throw their votes away by supporting Trump . A vote for either Stein or Johnson is a vote for trump

You are being deliberately intellectually dishonest.

A vote for Stein or Johnson is a vote for trump. Forgiving or agreeing that it is okay for voters in non-battleground states to vote for Stein or Johnson just add fuel to fire. Read Bernie's comments. I am not a fan of Bernie but he is correct in that this is not a time for a protest vote

Because that's what I said.

You are accusing me of crimes I did not commit and it's grossly unfair and dishonest.

Sanders is clear in the article cited in the OP. Condoning or excusing voters who vote for Stein or Johnson is simply wrong

I disagree with that claim and think that any vote for a third party candidate is a vote for trump That is what Sanders is stating in the article cited in the OP

That does not mean that I am saying people should vote for Stein or Johnson. I don't.
I think they are both vastly inferior to Hillary, and I said that from the very beginning.

@!!!!

You move the goalposts of your initial premise both creatively and deftly.

We're not supposed to think about those Libertarian-leaning voters, but they are there listening too...

I think Johnson is at 7% now.

I can see why disaffected GOP'ers would vote for this guy... true Libertarian types. But for anyone who supported Sanders - this guy is not who they think.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/why-you-shouldnt-vote-for-libertarian-nominee-gary-johnson-w435712

Thanks Bernie

Qualified candidate and we need to send a loud and clear message to the Republicans, they do not have any good policies for the citizens, we don't need to continue to support the top ten percent, we pay taxes and they give tax cuts to the wealthy.

They are draft age for starters.

Wait until they have to register for a draft.

Trump will start a war with somebody somewheres.

That is just for starters.

Good luck kids.

Better vote like your life depends on it because it might.