"controlled Congress for two years" is lying.

We didn't control Congress for one day, much less two years. Our 60th Senate vote -- the critical vote to defeat an unprecedented number of filibusters by Rethugs -- was an Independent who had been defeated in the Democratic primary, Joe Lieberman, who sided with the other side more than with us.

They could have changed the senate rules and lowered the threshold to 55 votes at the beginning of the session. They didn't in 2009, and refused again in 2011. Instead they cowered every time the GOP raised their voice.

The Dems have been a disgrace for over a decade now.

tank talking points from 1000 stations to 50 mil a week took free pot shots all day at the reps they pledged to support, while they stuck their iPods in their ears and walked on by.

well then, there already is the republican RIGHT Wing party. You can join them in attacking us.

the right puts a bunch of idiots on every stump and corner in the country screaming liberals and unionists are traitors and thieves and your sisters are whores and the left just walks by with their iPods in their ears because it gives them a headache to listen to it.

until there is a challenge to right wing radio the left is not getting its reps backs.

until then much of the criticism of its reps is based on inadequate evaluation of the forces against them.

eg. until then talk of the 'left' messaging better is idiotic (criticizing it for not messaging better).

until then the right will continue to be able to minimize the effect of democracy loving volunteers and their small time and money donations with a few blowhards with big microphones reading chamber of commerce and koch think tank talking points.

considering the time lost on global warming action ignoring talk radio is the biggest political blunder in history

to know that the Rethugs would break all historical records in their abuse of the filibuster.

They did make some changes in 2011, though I would have preferred more. OTOH, they may be a minority some day, and they don't want the filibuster completely destroyed.

nobody could have anticipated an action like 9/11, and nobody could ever have imagined the destruction of the levees. Right now, I, an ignorant and unemployed psych/soc major, cannot imagine the consequences of global warming.

Not buying. How loudly can I scream this?

.. even without majorities. Democrats have become the party of delivering excuses.

nt

Who else would have trusted the dip fucks?

quite a few bloggers such as Kos, AmericaBlog, Pam Spaulding, et al said that thinking the GOP would keep their promises was idiotic, and that the bipartisan fetish Obama insisted on was foolish in the extreme.

Hell, I called it when the Dems staring making "nice, nice" after winning back the congress in 2006:

http://www.thoughtcrimes.org/s9/index.php?/archives/1483-Dems-still-freaking-clueless-about-their-opponents.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After chafing for years under what they saw as flagrant Republican abuse of Congressional power and procedures, the incoming majority has promised to restore House and Senate practices to those more closely resembling the textbook version of how a bill becomes law: daylight debate, serious amendments and minority party participation.

Beyond the parliamentary issues, Democrats assuming control on Jan. 4 said they also wanted to revive collegiality and civility in an institution that has been poisoned by partisanship in recent years. In a gesture duly noted by Republicans, the incoming speaker of the House, Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, offered Speaker J. Dennis Hastert of Illinois, who is remaining in Congress, the use of prime office space in the Capitol out of respect for his position.

Then you people are idiots.

The GOP MUST be punished for its six years of abuse of the system. I am all for treating people fairly and not acting like assholes the way Hasert, Delay, Frist and Co. did, but only AFTER these smegma-brained pricks get a taste of their own medicine AND the Dems UNDO all the damage wrought by Bush and his Constitution-destroying reign.

For the next six months, and conditioned on their good behavior, the GOP reps should be told to shut up and stay out of the way while the adults clean up the mess they have made of the country. If they so much as open their mouth once to bitch, then they should be told they just added another month to their punishment. Since they have acted like power-mad brats, then they should be treated like power-mad brats.

Later in the story we see that the GOP has NO intention of acting in anything vaguely resembling a civil manner:

“There are going to be days when we will offer alternatives in ways that are going to be very appealing to Democrats in districts the president carried just two years ago,” said Representative Roy Blunt of Missouri, who will be the second-ranking House Republican in the 110th Congress.

Republicans see the ability to force tough votes — which they avoided in the majority by stifling Democratic alternatives — as having two potential benefits: It can put vulnerable Democrats on record with positions that might not be popular at home, or it can fracture the untested Democratic majority. Mr. Blunt noted that even senior Democrats who served in Congress when Democrats held control had no experience dealing with a relatively thin, 16-seat majority that will not allow many lawmakers to avoid tough votes.

Once agin, the Dems are showing up to the proverbial gun fight with nothing more than a finger to wag.

Let me paraphrase Kyle Reese and spell it out for you fools:

The taste of Republican butt does not improve with age.

The NeoCons can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They do not feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop, EVER, until you are dead.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The filibuster should be done away with for the simple reason that one side uses it all the time, and the other side is afraid to use it at all.

Electing Obama didn't resolve Tom Delay's redistricting, state AG's fiddling with the vote, Diebold machines still in use, or the Blue Dog issues in D.C. from the Clinton years on.

Some people literally walked away completely when he got elected, thought their part in this way all done. The election of 2008 was just the very beginning. And we're not done yet.

In fact I seem to recall a lot of progressive doctors getting kicked out of congress for talking up single payer-universal. I also recall Rahm Emmanuel calling us profanities for our wanting to bring it to the blue dogs and push them to back the president and back progressive policy on several occasions. People have been speaking out on these matters for years.

We didn't walk away, we were showed the door by the very conservadems and blue dogs that demolished a historic opportunity all for whatever short term gains they thought they could make as lobbyists.

and thanks a fucking lot to those shitheads

sa lot of new voters hadn't been paying attention to politics and had/have no idea what the right can do with their blue dog and conservadem allies and are just plain naive about what is and isn't possible for dems- they expect them to stick their necks out while their local RW radio stations blast their communities all day with think tank swiftboating, taking free potshots at the politicians whose backs they promised to get.

The Blue dogs and conservadems suffered the lions share of our losses. Most of the Democrats that stuck to their liberal guns weathered the feedback loop. Also, the Presidents party usually does kind of poorly during midterms.

The Arkansas election where the blue dogs and establishment stood lock step for Blanche Lincoln was a clear example where a progressive (her primary opposition) would have done far better in the race than she did. And this was in the run up to the dreaded 2010 election.

President Obama and democratic all stars tossing weight behind Lincoln did more damage to themselves than anything. For President Obama it alientated his base just a smidge and it made his approval look powerless. He could have stood back and allowed the process to carry forward, which was the message he sent regarding legislation repeatedly in 2009 during the healthcare debate. Even had Blanche Lincoln by some miracle been elected we would only have retained an extremely obstructionist democrat who would have forgotten the White House support the moment she reentered congress.

Blaming this on the liberals and the activists is folly. But it is typical conservative democratic folly.

communities. they are pushed around by those limbaugh megastations in the red states callling them traitors and socialists all day, moving the center to the right (while doing friendly local sports on the weekends) and making sure progressive alternatives have been unacceptable for the last 20 years.

americans finally had enough from bush and put obama in. obama told us what he wanted to do and what he thought america could do and a lot of politically new and naive voters gave up after two years because they actually thought a black man could march into the white billionaires house and kick ass.

single payer was made unacceptable by team limbaugh getting a free speech free ride for 20 years. the left let that happen. same with much of the disaster of the last 20 years. bush, like palin, would never have gotten close to the white house if the left paid attention to those 1000 radio stations screaming in every blue community that liberals are traitors and thieves and whores all day long.

we can find all sorts of examples of obama political stupidity but until the left recognizes and challenges that unified 1000 station megaphone there will be no real democracy or significant reform. until then the left cannot say it is getting its reps backs. a single local blowhard with a big microphone and some talking points can undo the work of thousands of protestors and activists. it is fucking ridiculous.

considering time lost on global warming the left's ignoring of RW radio because it gives them a headache listening to it and there's no written record to read has been the biggest political blunder in history.

i can and will continue to blame the collective left for that in the sense that it can be fixed but is being ignored.

The media barons that own the stations put that garbage on and other than acknowledging its existence precisely what is the left supposed to do? We made use of the media we have had access to which is why we kicked and screamed about net nuetrality. Blame the left all you want but it is the DLC that changed the definition of the center by crowning its own as the spokesmen of the Democratic party.

There are a few websites that we have put up maybe you have seen them, or posted on them.

You blame the victims and those who have been active and making noise the longest. I blame the people that think they are the center without bothering to educate themselves on the issues. I blame the people that claim to represent the center and sell out to corporations at the drop of a hat.

Go ahead and blame the left while you lionize the nice guys at the center, I am sure that will work well for moving the country back to the 'slightly-less-right-wing-but-still-significantly-right-of-center.'

you're thinking and talking in a talk radio vacuum.

all the left has to do is recognize the fact that what's been kicking their ass for the last 20 years isn't the blue dogs, which are a symptom of the problem, but talk radio. then they'd realize they're getting out messaged and outframed by the GOP because they get a free speech free ride- there is NO organized opposition. the iraq war protests i went to and got tear gassed at should have included the local limbaugh megastations, which were doing the heavy lifting selling those lies and got away with it because they were unchallenged. they are the reason a decorated war veteran became an elitist flip flopper, and a silver spooned failure and national guard deserter became commander in chief. palin was chosen for limbaugh, to get him on board with mccain. this whole primary idiot field is acceptable because the talk radio gods excluded the moderates years ago. these things were not some cyclic shift to the right. wall st deregulation, media deregulation, clarence thomas, scalia, single payer defeat are all trophies on the talk radio trophy room wall. there is no bigger national PC cop and censor-by-threat than limbaugh.

some of it's changed since rove lost control of it and the kochs horned in but the think tanks can still use it to message over just about anything the left does.

the same applies to OWS protests. there is no consequence for the sponsors of those radio stations and universities that broadcast sports on those stations that let limbaugh and hannity call OWS protestors maggot infested scum all day and deny global warming the rest of the time. to 50 mil a week. on stations licensed to operate in the public interest. protected by call screeners and prompted and reinforced by paid think tank callers. those local and national blowhards were yelling at the govs and mayors and cops and chiefs they needed to clean up the OWS scum, and exhorting their listeners to let them know. it makes a big difference.

nothing has moved the center or allowed the corporate media to move the perception of the center more to the right than having those blowhards on every corner and stump in the country screaming the same think tank generated BS all day long as if they represent the center or the majority and get away with it because no one gets in their face. print and TV omits but the radio monopoly can create. internet is diffuse while RW radio is focused and repetitive. no other medium can do that unchallenged coordinated repetition, deciding what is and what isn't acceptable, turning molehills into mountains in a day. the think tanks monitor the national conversation and if obama or wellstone etc are getting traction they develop a response and feed it to team limbaugh. OWS worked because it was one of the few political 'ops' that was louder than RW talk radio- but the radio keeps going all day every day.

and no one gets in the radio gods faces because the left thinks the fact they reach 50 mil a week is either irrelevant, they don't reach 50 mil a week, or the internet kicks their ass, or eventually all those pickups will have free high speed and global warming can wait, or they just have no clue, or are more interested in music. whatever.

the teabaggers are a product of 20 years of talk radio - all the koch bros did was give them bus passes. the fact that the left and the media generally have no idea that teabaggers are the talk radio base that were lured out of the limbaugh closet with koch funded bus passes is a big reason they're so successful. limbaugh spent months assuring them defaulting on the debt would present advantages for them, to force obama to cut govt. etc. that's likely the single most important reason we almost defaulted. OWS was necessary because democracy isn't working. democracy is designed to fix money and media problems but the left has allowed the right, with talk radio being the most important mechanism, to short circuit the normal feedback mechanisms that a democracy depends on. until the radio screamers are challenged getting money out of politics and demonopolizing media are practically impossible.

here's another way to look at it - the main talk radio gods are paid liars working 24/7 for the 1% on public airwaves. they have an effect on every national discussion. imagine if they just started telling the truth. the difference in our democracy would be amazing- advocating for clean energy for instance, instead of the oil companies. but there is no consequence for lying.

as far as doing something about it- besides local sponsor shaming, and protesting, it is possible that the RW monopoly couldn't survive without university sports (15 of 16 NCAA bball finalists in 2011 use limbaugh stations.). and no uni has any excuse for staying with limbaugh hannity savage stations. as soon as a few made that move their local sponsors would start peeling away and it would draw attention to the issue.

people power (ie OWS) is all we have. We don't have massive amounts of money to toss around buying up media outlets.

those stations are licensed to operate in the pubic interest and what they have been doing for 20 years, lying us into one disaster or another without any responsibility, is criminal.

on a local level, those stations depend on local sponsors to pay overhead and except in very red areas you're not going to get a lot of sponsors yelling back into the phone they love limbaugh. they're there for biz reasons. that support is soft- i've talked to them.

IMO much of the monopoly depends on the association with university sports, which is antithetical to their mission statements. they are essentially requiring their fans and students to listen to RW radio stations dedicated to global warming denial, partisan lying, racism, sexism, etc. any university forced to reevaluate that relationship, and there are many, will cause a chain reaction among local sponsors and force the stations to either depend on subsidies from the kochs and the GOP or begin to offer balance, or fire limbaugh and go to sports or other programing.

the left orgs need to get on it before the election year gets flooded with citizens united money

creating made-to-order pro-corporate constituencies for any issue they want. those were the town hall screamers that intimidated and enabled our politicians to fight off public option, after making single payer unnacceptable and too commie for america in the first place.

have nervous breakdowns over it, and make themselves look liuke the nimrods they are

Especially now that it has switched to facebook only comments.

He must think the left actually is a vast economic power that can contend with the corporations for power over the media.

try getting your local university to stop supporting limbaugh.

have you been complaining about torture? did you know your local RW limbaugh station sells club gitmo t-shirts and mugs for limbaugh?

i suppose it's easier to blame obama and the blue dogs.

Blue Dogs- yes I friggin blame them for what happened between 2009 and 2010. If you want to forgive them or pretend that somehow the left forced them into selling out the party to the highest bidder because somehow the left wasn't standing up to the right wing media machine (while Lieberman and Evan Bayh were putting in appearances on fox news as token Democrats) then so be it.


Blame Obama? Not so much. Gods it is pathetic when you try to make excuses for the very blue dogs that collaborated again and again for screwing the party and screwing President Obama over while you blame the very left that tried to take them to task for cooperating with the Republicans. There is something utterly infantile about this. Like blaming television. (*cough cough* Clintonesque telecommunication act)

a shit or think much about the motherfucking cowardly blue dogs who are a product of that dynamic.

those blue dogs ride the limbaugh bandwagon and feed off that smorgasbord of pre-chewed talking points. they are the symptom of the left allowing those radio stations a free speech free ride.

major reforms while the think tanks have those 1000 radio stations blasting 50 mil a week with no one in their face. they're getting a total free speech free ride to dominate US media while the left looks the other way.

there is NO organized opposition to the right's best weapon but there are other ways than buying stations.

That is why Media matters, OWS, Code Pink, and any number of other left wing operations don't actually exist.

Again, how the hell are we supposed to afford stations? Do you have a few million dollars in your back pocket... or a tens or hundreds of millions. Gods this is a waste of time.

those orgs do great work but monitoring once in a while and commenting on an occasional racism or sexism from limbaugh just makes the roves laugh.

I really don't understand why you hate the left. It's very identity sort of precludes it from recieving the vast sums of money and organizing on a corporate level to buy out radio stations. Obviously you aren't a part of this "left" that you seem to believe is responsible for all the failure of the Democratic party, despite the fact that there has been a regular and concerted effort to marginalize the left within the party.

It is like you put up a dart board and used that to decide what to blame on the left. 'Talk radio' yup, that is definitely the fault of the left for the last 20 years. Couldn't have anything to do with the nulling out of the provisions requiring equal time and the fairness doctrine by Reagan, or the subsequent FCC decisions to water down media monopolization, or the Clinton telecommunication deregulation act.

You elaborate a lot on problems of media, but you utterly fail to describe how or where the left was responsible for Rush Limbaugh and the cornucopeia of right wing radio stars. What did the left in America do specifically to create this situation? This is a question that I don't expect you to actually answer.

just saying if you ignore him pretty soon your neighbors might believe him.

that's been going on for 20 years for all thing and candidates dem and liberal all over the country and the left has been ignoring it.

i blame reagan for killing the FD and all the deregulation and monopolization and the republicans and corporatists and blue dogs that were enabled by that radio monopoly soapbox.

but for the left to ignore the fact that RW radio has been kicking their ass is stupid. we can all do all sorts of things individually and collectively but to ignore the opposition's best weapon is idiotic.

waiting for internet in in every pickup or for legislation to fix elections and media and talk radio while leaving that media monopoly to continue to defeat any such efforts will not fix the situation. i don't understand what you don't understand about my position.

Dear gods we have been kicking and screaming and protesting and letter writing for years. It is the damnable moderates that have been shrugging and ignoring reality. What a twisted worldview to imagine the very people most active and most issue bound and most interested in progressive issues in general are the ones that caused this mess.

It is like blaming canaries that squak in a mine for the cave in.

No one on the left has been ignoring right wing media and the moderates and conservadems have been enabling it. But go ahead, blame the left for the inactivity of moderates and the capitulation of conservative democrats that created the shift. Don't blame the Reagan Democrats, the Southern Strategy, the Democratic Leadership Committee, no definitely blame the left.

It was not the left that abandoned the word 'liberal' or 'left' it was the moderates. they conceded the fight before it even began.

Really, your argument doesn't make a damned bit of sense. If only there was a reporting mechanism for illogical argumentation.

who have the most to gain by challenging it. and attacking fox or pushing for media reform while ignoring the radio problem makes everything liberals want to do harder. and the 'left' IS and has been ignoring RW radio, as i have described. i've had countless conversations with liberals who dismiss it. and because it has been virtually invisible it has been the perfect weapon for the right- and the only medium that could be used to sell the teabagger alternate reality that causes liberals to scratch their heads.

and as i've said, one local blowhard reading chamber of commerce talking points can undo the work of thousands of hard working activists and protestors. and they have been doing that all over the country for 20 years, invisible to those who would rather play a scratched barry manilow CD they found under the seat than listen to the guy on the soapbox trashing them and their reps. there has been little thought or effort put into it by the very people most adversely affected by it. "buy a station" is an excuse right out of the heritage foundation. the left has been very inefficient.

here's what lhere's what Limbaugh said in part of one hour one wednesday morning after the OWS protests started:- he nor his local sponsors probably got no response or pushback- do you think having that on 600 radio stations in police cars and across the country makes a difference....

praphrasing Limbaugh (whose parent station BTW is WABC right near Penn Station, NYC)

xxxxxx



lousy hippies thieves rapists purse snatchers
sexually transmitted diseases, murder, filth, gunfire, scabies


The protestors are so used to urinating and defecating in the streets so when they go back home to their parents they might need to be housebroken again. They’re going to have to put some newspaper down.


endless parade of human debris,
whining little wimps 
looking for free meals free drugs free sex


xxxxxx

sure it's free speech. walking by to the protest with the iPods in the ears is giving it a free speech free ride, ignoring the blowhard on every corner and stump in the country. more than any other factor, thinking it doesn't make a difference is why we're in this mess, why those idiot fascists think they can be president and are actually in a position to end up there, and why those blue dogs are not progressives.

More direct action like this, please.

I am hoping that they get a more understanding reception from Dems than they do from Pubs

"You get a smiling face that tells you they'll listen – but when it comes to actually sitting down with someone who has the power to make decisions, you get the cold shoulder."

They kissed GW Bush's ass, allowed him to invade Iraq, groveled at his feet to pass the Patriot Act, etc.

I support the Democratic Party, but most Democrats in Congress are corrupt. We need to start from scratch and throw the corrupt bums out.

all over the political spectrum, taking free pot shots at their reps and causes to an audience of 50 mil a week.

throw the bums out is a right wing meme to suppress the vote.

since Iran/contra.

But they are what we have to work with this year. We can't just throw them out unless we have something to replace them with.

It was unlikely before because of his catering to Wall Street but now the odds look even worse.

the hysteria surrounding it and the ignorance of the changes that were made to it prior to his signature and signing statement. Yeah, I forgot about that.

That's legally binding, isn't it?

And uncritical links to a website run by Obama flacks!

You convinced me...

Criticism of Obama on this issue is not the exclusive province of right-wingnuts. A couple more links:

http://www.aclu.org/national-security/president-obama-signs-indefinite-detention-bill-law

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1575/689/Three_Myths_About_The_Detention_Bill.html

Lol, not really.

my more cynical self says because the WH can also read the papers.

My less cynical view because he actually has issues with this.

I tend to think it is the more cynical view.



And yes, signing statements do have a few problems with them. If my less cynical view holds and they retake congress (and buy a clue) they will repeal this.

I don’t trust what he says after he vowed to veto the bill. Why should I trust it won’t apply to American citizens, when there is no mention of differentiation in the law nor in the singing statement?
And, when this administration passes on, what then?
Sad to think in terms of the NDAA, 2002 and the Patriot Act are used as 'normal'.

His accompanying statement with this bill that lays blame with congress and makes him and his administration appear as nothing but purely harmless protectors of the American people is nothing but his usual double speak. In my mind, it was crystal clear he had no qualms with the excessive militant force against OWS, who were utilizing their constitutional rights to protest, so why on Earth should one believe he now has sufficient respect for our rights to due process if we pose some sort of perceived ambiguously stated “terrorist” threat.


It still stands that in no way, shape or form will OWS or any of us involved with OWS are going to side with these corporate shits we call elected officials.
I don't bite the other side of the rotten apple because it isn't as rotten.

And please, don't bother with a reply as I will be unable to read it without logging out, I am no fan of the Blue Link Brigade.

"In particular, I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists."

If the President himself has "serious reservation", why shouldn't I? It's really odd seeing Democrats and progressives characterizing a concern over civil liberties as "hysteria". So sad.

And the language of the NDAA clearly applies to U.S. citizens. There is no ambiguity. All one has to do is read it. President Obama's denials are nonsense.

But I'm sure you know that.

I don’t trust what he says after he vowed to veto the bill. Why should I trust it won’t apply to American citizens, when there is no mention of differentiation in the law nor in the singing statement?
And, when this administration passes on, what then?
Sad to think in terms of the NDAA, 2002 and the Patriot Act are used as 'normal'.

His accompanying statement with this bill that lays blame with congress and makes him and his administration appear as nothing but purely harmless protectors of the American people is nothing but his usual double speak. In my mind, it was crystal clear he had no qualms with the excessive militant force against OWS, who were utilizing their constitutional rights to protest, so why on Earth should one believe he now has sufficient respect for our rights to due process if we pose some sort of perceived ambiguously stated “terrorist” threat.


It still stands that in no way, shape or form will OWS or any of us involved with OWS are going to side with these corporate shits we call elected officials.
I don't bite the other side of the rotten apple because it isn't as rotten.

And please, don't bother with a reply as I will be unable to read it without logging out, I am no fan of the Blue Link Brigade.

I bought a coffee-table book of Obama's campaign speeches -
it makes me cry, not with joy, like when I first heard them,
but with dismay and horror at the betrayal and capitulation.

lately I've been answering the fund raising calls with:

"just another servant of the too-big-to-JAIL!"

it's not the same as being FOR our poor P.O.W. (prisoner of Washington)
to be against the REPtilian candidate

Obama is a pro-corporate Democrat. Except for mouthing platitudes, he will ignore OWS. The value of OWS to Mr. Obama is that, even if he does nothing, the issues they raise hurt the Republicans more than they hurt him. Mr. Obama is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Harness the energy? Is the movement some kind of whore like so many of his supporters feel from '08?
Harness OWS?
You think OWS would allow itself to be harnessed and abused and then tossed aside like so many of us supporters from'08?


I can't believe I am reading this shit.

Thanks i_sometimes.................

disappointment in Obama is one of the reasons OWS started

... can harness anything. It's just not in him to do anything remotely bold.

He makes John Kerry look like a wild-eyed rebel.

Oh man, that was a good one.

particularly care

....are distancing themselves from their vocal base groups....both political parties are making possible the genesis of new Left and Right wing parties....

....should the Progressives and the baggers both agree to slate candidates and start new political parties, neither group would be disadvantaged....neither group would be disarming making the others election probable within the historic two party structure....

....2012 is the year....why?

....the Dems won't even talk to OWS yet alone address their grievances or embrace them for fear of the pukes branding such an association as radical....and the corporate pukes and baggers get along about the same....yet, there's this reality to contend with..

"During that time, President Obama and the Democratic party put the agenda of Wall Street and the corporate 1% first over the needs of 99% of the country. Your leadership failed us. You must do better in 2012."

They want the Democratic political party to listen to their concerns yet they are afraid of being 'co-opted' so they keep their distance at the same time.

Not much is going to happen as long as both groups are afraid to commit.

On Shultz, Hartmann, and Goldman I've actually heard Democratic politicians favorably discuss the accomplishments of OWS. Then I come here and it's a different story.

I heard BO say he was going to get his comfortable shoes and walk with the public sector for decent jobs.

move the center right and decide what is and what isn't acceptable

the loudest political voices in most parts of the US are the local limbaugh stations and until the left mounts an organized opposition to it dems reps have to acknowledge them - because they are loud and focused.

everyday the last 20 years the right has put loudmouths on every corner and stump in the country yelling liberals suck and the liberals just stick their iPods in their ears and walk by.

the OWS movement is pretty much being ignored. Other than the topic of income inequality getting talked about the OWS movement has been an abject failure because they're coming off as spoiled children (pretty ironic considering the message).

Really.
"These people"?

and that we have a few amendments to deal with Citizens United, you can't be serious. Then again, if you are not paying attention you can.

I mean local Occupiers went to my local Critter's office two weeks ago.

Republicans have tried so many dirty tricks just like this.

Remember the reporter who was busted trying to make the occupiers look bad?

It was neat.

This has to be a joke.
[p]
12 protesters lay motionless on the lobby floor of the Renaissance Des Moines Savory Hotel
[p]
Maybe that worked for them when they were 4. My parents didn't fall for it and I don't think most adults will.
[p]
What goes through these people's minds? "I know. If I act like a toddler in public, that will force the world to take my grievances seriously."

Stick around and learn something.

You don't hand someone a list of complaints and then ask them to meet with you.

The obvious conclusion is that you want to complain some more instead of discuss issues on equal terms.

Most people, when confronted with an antagonistic attitude, tune out.

Did he get the meeting? Dunno. Did he change the world? Just a bit.

I think worldwide protest is about more than a few private meetings. Maybe that's what you need to learn. Study the biggies.

It's amazing to me how people want to conflate the civil rights movement with OWS. That seems pretentious to me.

If OWS really doesn't want to get anything done, they should continue to do what they are doing: sneaking into parks and insulting the Democrats instead of working to get things done.

The people running the recall elections in Wisconsin are up to the task.

have been through direct, antagonistic action. Minorities, gays, women, anti-war activists -- we have had to demand the change we wanted, to force our officials to bow to our will. OWS is just following in their footsteps and, as I mentioned, having a moderate success in awakening the American People to the issue. I look forward to their continued success.

I'd say that who sits on the bench and hands down decisions and who sits in the legislature and passes laws and who is in control of the executive branch has a little something to do with it all too.

And the examples you cite, such as women's rights and civil liberties for GLBT citizens, have required decades' worth of actions (and not just protests either) and the progress can't be taken for granted (Look at reproductive rights and collective bargaining these days,for starters).

I think people are focusing too heavily on the technique (protests) and not on the desired goal (progress). If you don't have a workable strategy, you can protest until your eyes pop but won't claim victory.

And key to this is public opinion. If you fail to sway public opinion (or, worse still, generate ill will), you can forget about progress there as well.

But it's good to see what the latest talking points are.

And welcome to DU. May your brief stay be a happy one.

One could say the same for you since you don't want to address the issue.

I'm quite proud of them.

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one's skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless nonhuman animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.

They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians supposed to be regulating them.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantive profit.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.

They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!

*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/

Since Dems have become part pf the problem, they deserve/need to take the heat the same way the GOPers do.

OCCUPY!

Events like this one at Renaissance Des Moines Savory Hotel and Obama's signing of the NDAA law, prove once again why the artificial left-right divide is just another alibi for the dynasty that has ruled the country with impunity for generations. As power alternates faultlessly between Democrats and Republicans in what is clearly an inside job, ordinary people seem resigned to a lifetime of failed promises.

Watch how the same people who enthusiastically voted out the Republicans in massive numbers in 2008 were on hand to give ruling Democrats a bloody nose just two years later. To this disenfranchised lot, voting for Republicans was the only way they could punish wayward Democrats, just as courting Democrats was a whip against the then ruling Republicans in 2008. Like a spurned girl who jumps straight into bed with his ex-boyfriend’s best friend, nothing much can be read into it, except that what one man lost the other was on hand to collect.

To be clear the 2010 mid-term victory by the right wasn’t a sign that Republicans had miraculously acquired the delicate art of shepherding a fairer, more sustainable economy, or even that Democrats ever had this rare gift. Stuck between the flaming Devil and the deep blue sea, intelligent people are known to close their eyes and take the plunge. Indeed, not since the infamous Match That Never Was between blood cousins West Germany and Austria at Soccer World Cup 1982 did two teams contrive to pass the ball harmlessly between themselves in order to manufacture a dour draw that serves none but the two of them.

www.maverickonomics.com

Corporate Dems shouldn't expect our support.

Washington needs a strong message. On the other hand, Dems shouldn't be singled out.