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muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 08:23 AM Nov 2016

Trump to scrap Nasa climate research in crackdown on politicized science

Source: The Guardian

Donald Trump is poised to eliminate all climate change research conducted by Nasa as part of a crackdown on “politicized science”, his senior adviser on issues relating to the space agency has said.
...
This would mean the elimination of Nasa’s world-renowned research into temperature, ice, clouds and other climate phenomena. Nasa’s network of satellites provide a wealth of information on climate change, with the Earth science division’s budget set to grow to $2bn next year. By comparison, space exploration has been scaled back somewhat, with a proposed budget of $2.8bn in 2017.

Bob Walker, a senior Trump campaign adviser, said there was no need for Nasa to do what he has previously described as “politically correct environmental monitoring”.
...
Walker, however, claimed that doubt over the role of human activity in climate change “is a view shared by half the climatologists in the world. We need good science to tell us what the reality is and science could do that if politicians didn’t interfere with it.”

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/22/nasa-earth-donald-trump-eliminate-climate-change-research



Walker mumbles "Earth-centric science is better placed at other agencies where it is their prime mission", but we all know there's no chance of Trump increasing their budget to make up for cuts at NASA.

This is the ideological attack on science, the environment and the future. This is the true heart of darkness at the centre of Trump's personal swamp. He's happy to shit on the world.
55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Trump to scrap Nasa climate research in crackdown on politicized science (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Nov 2016 OP
Not to worry - I'm sure he'll come around. He's moderating his positions, don't you know? hatrack Nov 2016 #1
So Trump fears what the data would show. Pholus Nov 2016 #2
That, in itself, is politicized science. TheBlackAdder Nov 2016 #16
Astronomer Phil Plait Agrees kebob Nov 2016 #33
I'm sure the Stupid-Fuck-Elect will generate his own data and research paper, worthy of a "No-sell Prize." InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2016 #51
Remember: Mother Nature is a b****, and she ALWAYS has the last word. DinahMoeHum Nov 2016 #3
Well remember what Mar a Lago means greymattermom Nov 2016 #4
Trump doesn't give a shit. He'll be dead before it sinks & his kids will sell it to some sap first! TheBlackAdder Nov 2016 #17
Hurry up Lord. TeamPooka Nov 2016 #39
They should research his head bucolic_frolic Nov 2016 #5
Maybe he'll be generous and will his brain to science ailsagirl Nov 2016 #30
Isn't the act of policing politicized science retrowire Nov 2016 #6
Science is Conservatively Incorrect JHB Nov 2016 #7
That's a very good framing of the issue, including or esp. "Conservatively Incorrect". . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2016 #36
that will show climate change, won't it? Fast Walker 52 Nov 2016 #8
Hey, his master used a bigly word yesterday mountain grammy Nov 2016 #9
Lunatics are in charge of our government jimlup Nov 2016 #10
Scrap the research? lake loon Nov 2016 #11
Need to reach out to the EU for help with this now. harun Nov 2016 #12
Politicized Science? Punx Nov 2016 #13
Half of climatologists dispute human activity? WTF is this asshat reading? Only Breitbart?! Roland99 Nov 2016 #14
Don't let Bob Walker cut the cake. He thinks .006% is half. tclambert Nov 2016 #23
Politicized science? A crackdown? How Orwellian Augiedog Nov 2016 #15
Truly mdbl Nov 2016 #18
NY Times, Flooding of Coast, Caused by Global Warming, Has Already Begun Botany Nov 2016 #19
Yet more officially-enforced dumbing down of America SpankMe Nov 2016 #20
And so it begins hibbing Nov 2016 #21
And their degree doesn't have to be in climatology or even meteorology LastLiberal in PalmSprings Nov 2016 #24
CFCs were like aggressive cancer. joshcryer Nov 2016 #26
Move it to agencies less political than NASA? Please tell me who that is. tclambert Nov 2016 #22
They will not move the money needed to do the work n2doc Nov 2016 #38
Obama should sell it off to a private consortium before leaving office bucolic_frolic Nov 2016 #25
The Navy will keep the important stuff. joshcryer Nov 2016 #27
Walker was just interviewed on CBC's "As it happens" TrogL Nov 2016 #28
Thanks for that - he was caught in a direct lie muriel_volestrangler Nov 2016 #32
What about politicized religions? mdbl Nov 2016 #29
Rodeo clown. mahina Nov 2016 #34
Why doesn't he just nuke the country while he's at it? ailsagirl Nov 2016 #31
Reminds me of the push for Lysenkoism in the USSR. baldguy Nov 2016 #35
No need? As if observing earth from space didn't work. Oh, yeah, it works against PaveTheEarth. . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2016 #37
I think this is a dangerous move by the Republicans. Also rladdi Nov 2016 #40
thats why republicans are better then fine with trump, they can do what they wish & he's unfit. Sunlei Nov 2016 #42
man sits in a tower and reads 'fake news' & fox lies for many years, all he knows is birther crap Sunlei Nov 2016 #41
This is how we "make America great again?" Towlie Nov 2016 #43
He'll also eliminate all money from NSF and NOAA Climate research. briv1016 Nov 2016 #44
I for one welcome our cockroach overlords. hay rick Nov 2016 #45
Guess he don't know too much about the boomerang effect either nolabels Nov 2016 #46
Will Trump really have the authority to do that? potone Nov 2016 #47
A Republican Congress will be right behind him muriel_volestrangler Nov 2016 #48
Conservatives conserve nothing Martin Eden Nov 2016 #49
Headlines like this are just "journalists" conveyor-belting Trump framing and language Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2016 #50
The media will whimper and kiss his ass saying this is good stuff! n/t RKP5637 Nov 2016 #52
Trump has so many mental issues, it's getting difficult to determine the predominate one RKP5637 Nov 2016 #53
Sad they accept the term "politicized science" bucolic_frolic Nov 2016 #54
Why does he single out the NOAA as being non-politicized? TrogL Nov 2016 #55

hatrack

(59,587 posts)
1. Not to worry - I'm sure he'll come around. He's moderating his positions, don't you know?
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 08:31 AM
Nov 2016

Let the Reality Stick begin its descent, and may blood and pain follow in its wake.

You don't get to embrace stupid, and not suffer the consequences.

 

kebob

(499 posts)
33. Astronomer Phil Plait Agrees
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 07:33 AM
Nov 2016

From his Slate article yesterday:

Walker, however, claimed that doubt over the role of human activity in climate change “is a view shared by half the climatologists in the world. We need good science to tell us what the reality is and science could do that if politicians didn’t interfere with it.”


That is complete garbage. “Half the climatologists”? In reality, at least 97 percent of climatologists agree that humans cause global warming, and the data show you can’t explain the current rising temperatures without human influence.

The final wail from the ghost of Orwell is that last sentence by Walker. He’s a politician, and he’s interfering with science.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2016/11/23/trump_advisor_says_administration_will_eliminate_nasa_climate_research.html

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
51. I'm sure the Stupid-Fuck-Elect will generate his own data and research paper, worthy of a "No-sell Prize."
Sun Nov 27, 2016, 09:25 AM
Nov 2016

ailsagirl

(22,897 posts)
30. Maybe he'll be generous and will his brain to science
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:31 AM
Nov 2016

Last edited Fri Nov 25, 2016, 07:52 PM - Edit history (3)

If it hasn't already shrunken to pea-size, that is.

mountain grammy

(26,624 posts)
9. Hey, his master used a bigly word yesterday
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 09:27 AM
Nov 2016

connectivity.. as in humans to climate change. They gave him a word most of his voters wouldn't recognize. All good!

harun

(11,348 posts)
12. Need to reach out to the EU for help with this now.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 10:10 AM
Nov 2016

Maybe our climate scientists could defect to more enlightened territories.

tclambert

(11,087 posts)
23. Don't let Bob Walker cut the cake. He thinks .006% is half.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:35 PM
Nov 2016

(Based on a study that found 4 authors out of 70,000 published scientific papers questioning anthropogenic climate change.)

mdbl

(4,973 posts)
18. Truly
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 11:45 AM
Nov 2016

How bizarre that these people want to screw scientists and the planet and are so blatant about it. Even more bizarre, the american public lets them get away with it.

Botany

(70,516 posts)
19. NY Times, Flooding of Coast, Caused by Global Warming, Has Already Begun
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 12:12 PM
Nov 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/04/science/flooding-of-coast-caused-by-global-warming-has-already-begun.html?_r=0

NORFOLK, Va. — Huge vertical rulers are sprouting beside low spots in the streets here, so people can judge if the tidal floods that increasingly inundate their roads are too deep to drive through.

Five hundred miles down the Atlantic Coast, the only road to Tybee Island, Ga., is disappearing beneath the sea several times a year, cutting the town off from the mainland.

And another 500 miles on, in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., increased tidal flooding is forcing the city to spend millions fixing battered roads and drains — and, at times, to send out giant vacuum trucks to suck saltwater off the streets.

For decades, as the global warming created by human emissions caused land ice to melt and ocean water to expand, scientists warned that the accelerating rise of the sea would eventually imperil the United States’ coastline.

SpankMe

(2,957 posts)
20. Yet more officially-enforced dumbing down of America
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 01:15 PM
Nov 2016

One potential (and likely) consequence of this is that other nations will pick up the space-based Earth climate analysis and will dominate the US in these areas of science. America's pre-eminence in science will be ceded to others and the U.S. will become a second or third tier nation in terms of scientific leadership and pace-setting.

hibbing

(10,098 posts)
21. And so it begins
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:20 PM
Nov 2016

I'm really looking forward to watching the loyal opposition not doing much opposing besides a few members.


How on earth did we ever get some consensus on banning CFCs, that would never ever happen today because you could find one kook with a degree who says they are fine and then the science is "disputed". Oh, I can answer my own question, that was before all Republicans were batshit crazy.

Peace

24. And their degree doesn't have to be in climatology or even meteorology
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:51 PM
Nov 2016

Just as long as they can spell "scientist" and are willing to parrot the GOP party line (for a fee, of course) they count as "reliable sources which contradict politically motivated results."

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
26. CFCs were like aggressive cancer.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 08:11 PM
Nov 2016

Everyone knew and accepted it was happening.

CO2 is like the shingles virus or something; occasional outbreaks (natural disasters), but unseen or under appreciated.

tclambert

(11,087 posts)
22. Move it to agencies less political than NASA? Please tell me who that is.
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 02:31 PM
Nov 2016

In their eyes, any agency that measures climate change is politicizing the issue. They don't believe in unbiased facts.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
38. They will not move the money needed to do the work
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 12:09 PM
Nov 2016

"Oh, NOAA? Here's some stuff we really don't want done and that we won't give you any money to do. Oh, and by the way, we are cutting your budget too!"

Watch as the shell game is used to completely destroy climate research in the USA. And it won't be just NASA, it will be all the university scientists supported by grants from federal agencies. That both kills off research and training of the next generation of scientists. 4 years is probably survivable, if Dems gain everything back and reverse things. 8 years and we will be ruined.

TrogL

(32,822 posts)
28. Walker was just interviewed on CBC's "As it happens"
Wed Nov 23, 2016, 10:10 PM
Nov 2016

He sounded half ways reasonable until he was unable to list an agency that wasn't politicized.

He also explained away the loss of NASA's satellite imagery with "NOAA has satellites too".

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-wednesday-edition-1.3864045/trump-adviser-wants-to-cut-nasa-climate-change-research-calls-it-politicized-science-1.3864051

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
32. Thanks for that - he was caught in a direct lie
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 05:34 AM
Nov 2016
CO: You've written that NASA is too focused on "politically correct environmental monitoring" of climate change. Can you tell us what you mean by that?

RW: Again, I've never written that. So, the fact is —

CO: I'm so sorry, sir. We just have an op-ed piece that's co-signed by you. That's not a quote from you? Your name is on that article.

RW: What you have is a position paper that was done by the campaign, that yes, I am signed on to. But, I don't remember that we said in that paper that it was politically oriented science.

His Op-ed - "Trump’s space policy reaches for Mars and the stars by Robert S. Walker and Peter Navarro — October 19, 2016" said

NASA was formed in the crucible of Sputnik and took this nation to the moon and stars. Today, it has been largely reduced to a logistics agency concentrating on space station resupply and politically correct environmental monitoring.

- See more at: http://spacenews.com/trumps-space-policy-reaches-for-mars-and-the-stars/#sthash.GOfhcje4.dpuf

So it was just 5 weeks ago, but he's already lying about what he wrote. When he appeared to pull more stuff out of his arse, he looked fairly bad. After the interview, he sent email saying what he claims his sources are - the CBC added it at the end of your article. And they have also be thoroughly debunked too:

After the interview, Walker sent Carol Off's program, As It Happens, an e-mail, in which he cited three sources: an organization called Open Source Systems, Science and Solutions; another called the National Association of Scholars; and something he called the Center for Climate Research.
...
The Center Walker cited may exist. If so, it does not seem to have any online presence.
...
The National Association is not, in fact, a scientific organization, but, rather, a conservative group dedicated to advancing a libertarian and conservative philosophy in research and higher education.
...
However, contrary to Walker, they do not complain that the consensus figure would be lower if one included only climatologists. To the contrary, they say quite the opposite, to wit: "The term 'climate scientists' is itself mischievous -- a way of writing out scientists who are experts in related fields, such as physics and geology, who disagree with the consensus model."
...
In the section of Open Source's web site dedicated to myths versus facts on global warming it says:

"This news and analysis section addresses substance of arguments such as 'global warming is a hoax,' 'global warming is a fiction,' 'global warming is created to make money for Al Gore.' The main fallacy noted is that most arguments are facts out of context while others are simply false representations. When the facts pertaining to the arguments are viewed in context relevance becomes obvious. The data clearly indicates global warming is happening and is human caused."

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/karl-nerenberg/2016/11/trump-climate-change-advisor-provides-cbc-dubious-sources

Walker is like a typical online climate change denier from the last 10 years. They lie, cite more and more obscure RW 'sources' that aren't scientific, but call the actual scientific organisations like the IPCC or NASA 'politicized', and have a series of fallback positions where they deny facts and data, but know they'll have to concede some reality. They want to delay anything, and muddy the waters.

mahina

(17,668 posts)
34. Rodeo clown.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 07:38 AM
Nov 2016

I doubt he even knows he's not in charge. Wonder who is. Koch bros, De Vos, who else?'

ailsagirl

(22,897 posts)
31. Why doesn't he just nuke the country while he's at it?
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:36 AM
Nov 2016


Oh, that's right-- he likes people to suffer slowly... silly me

rladdi

(581 posts)
40. I think this is a dangerous move by the Republicans. Also
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:51 PM
Nov 2016

with Trump eliminating many environmental programs it will take our nation back decades. What are the Republicans thinking about the continue destruction of our country with the air, water and land quality. America must fight back against this. But it will only happen with voting for those for a clean environment. The Republicans certainly don't have this concern. My big concern is G. Bush wanted to turn many national parks over to mining and oil, just hope Trump does not do this.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
42. thats why republicans are better then fine with trump, they can do what they wish & he's unfit.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:58 PM
Nov 2016

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
41. man sits in a tower and reads 'fake news' & fox lies for many years, all he knows is birther crap
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 03:56 PM
Nov 2016

bet he didn't pay attention in science class 50-60? years ago, he's not a very educated man.

Towlie

(5,324 posts)
43. This is how we "make America great again?"
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 05:34 PM
Nov 2016

This is like being the only sober person in the car and they won't let you drive.

briv1016

(1,570 posts)
44. He'll also eliminate all money from NSF and NOAA Climate research.
Thu Nov 24, 2016, 06:28 PM
Nov 2016

I wouldn't be surprised if they also eliminate the requirement for peer review for federal grants. That way they can use federal funds for "their" research. They tried it before.

hay rick

(7,624 posts)
45. I for one welcome our cockroach overlords.
Fri Nov 25, 2016, 12:40 AM
Nov 2016

First Bush, now Trump. Our "democracy" appears to be a threat to humanity.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
46. Guess he don't know too much about the boomerang effect either
Fri Nov 25, 2016, 12:40 PM
Nov 2016

Prohibition against things against things that don't flatter the rulers tend to render those items up to a mythological importance. Political expediency is often snakebite in the making.

potone

(1,701 posts)
47. Will Trump really have the authority to do that?
Sat Nov 26, 2016, 04:32 PM
Nov 2016

Surely NASA can't be under the direct control of the Executive Branch, is it? Congress votes appropriations for it, so they could starve it of funding, but how could Trump simply decide by himself what research NASA does?

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,007 posts)
50. Headlines like this are just "journalists" conveyor-belting Trump framing and language
Sun Nov 27, 2016, 09:15 AM
Nov 2016

Much better would be:

"Trump to scrap NASA climate research; alleges politicized science"

The Guardian (Grauniad) headline accepts Trump's allegation as if it were true.

Many people often read no further than headlines.

RKP5637

(67,111 posts)
53. Trump has so many mental issues, it's getting difficult to determine the predominate one
Sun Nov 27, 2016, 10:22 AM
Nov 2016

other than he's totally unhinged.

bucolic_frolic

(43,182 posts)
54. Sad they accept the term "politicized science"
Sun Nov 27, 2016, 07:22 PM
Nov 2016

It's not, it has data behind it

No one would select Trump for brainpower for sure

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