I can think of a LOT of really horrifying scenarios where a wanted child is miscarried, and the fucking Texas government forces the parents into holding a funeral for the still-born fetus.

humiliation is the least of legally regarding early fetuses as people.

The minority woman Pence tried to keep in prison didn't have anyone except the government trying to persecute her. How about a nice white, Christian woman whose husband joins her hostile in-laws in blaming her for a miscarriage and claiming that she tried to kill her baby?

Btw, let's see a Texas woman go to court to demand that her insurance company pay to save the life of the 5-month unborn gestational-stage person being miscarried. It's inevitable, and who's going to pay the enormous costs? Conservative taxpayers? Yes, I know. No conflict at all. Mom to prison if can be blamed, "baby" properly buried with crocodile tears.

It was so horrible, she got hysterical and screamed and fell to the ground weeping for a long time. She later said she'd made an awful decision to have an open casket funeral and would never recommend that to anyone.

Even cremations aren't cheap. I am (wonderfully) surprised that the funeral industry is against it. I figured they would lobby for it.

cheaper than a funeral with burial, but still costly.

Unless the regulations apply to polluters or businesses that blow up towns by inappropriately storing their explosive chemicals.

I don't get it, but it seems to be what they like.

are not welcome. As is geographic bigotry.

Yes my state is full of the stupid, but we are all not cut of the same cloth.

Some of us are working hard down here to keep some sanity in this state. And trust me, it's an uphill battle. We don't need to be lumped in with the herd of idiots!

You would think that all Democrats would know better than to generalize about a group of people as all holding the same traits or beliefs.

I know Team Blue is working hard in Texas. I just don't understand why the majority of voters there keep voting against their own interests.

It's not limited to Texas.

once they outlaw abortion.
Which will happen soon.

aka miscarriages. I can see a group of women starting Periods for Texas soon.

What methods were used to stop a fourth and so on. Would love to hear his hypocritical answer.

We will put Iran to shame!

Miscarriages happen a lot more than you think and are subject to this law.

In a recent study, the majority of people surveyed thought miscarriages occurred in 5 percent of less of pregnancies. In reality, the share is about 20 percent

Welcome to Christian Sharia Law

Women will avoid prenatal care until the second trimester, just in case.

"all fetal remains, regardless of the period of gestation when the miscarriage or abortion occurred"

Most miscarriages occur in the first few weeks of pregnancy, where a woman can mistake the bleeding for her normally scheduled period. The only way to enforce such a law would be to bury or cremate used sanitary items.

This sh*t is bananas.

He's a big-mouthed, theocratic douchebag, and he's a prime mover of sick Christian Taliban measures like this one.

they specifically mentioned miscarriages as requiring burial/cremation services, regardless of the period of gestation.

That's what I recommend.

There are way too many politicians here on the wrong side of the grass.

That younger women will have this to contend with.

I do not want to learn of young women dying in back alleys. Women my age have already lived through that shit.

abortion clinics.

They want to punish women for being women. I don't care what other reasons they cite. We all know the real impetus behind this. It's a religious thing dating back to Eve. (And I'm a Christian, but I'm not an idiot.)

I live in Texas and I encounter these fundies on a daily basis. I've started to ask them if they understand that when they say that abortion is murder, that they are calling women who have had abortions murderers. They just look at me like I'm nuts, but THAT is the inference. I've lost several friendships over this, particularly recently. I will not tolerate that kind of stupidity and sexism in my life.

“Forcing a woman to pay for a burial after she ends a pregnancy or experiences a miscarriage is not just absurd—it is an unnecessary burden and an intrusion on her personal beliefs.”

Funeral home, cremation services, urn, burial plot, coffin, limo. It will cost at least $8,000 out of pocket.

You can skip the burial plot, coffin and limo. The cremains are sent back to you in a box which you can dispose of as you wish. Even so, that is a huge piece of crap pushed down on the woman.

However, to your point, it is an expense which will be incurred.

Thinking, today when your pet dies, you can opt for a mass cremation as part of disposal. (i.e., when you do not want to have the ashes sent back to you). This is nominal. Wonder if this can be done and can be done in a way which does not charge the woman. Create some sort of "Neptune" like society to handle this.

L-

Because then the embryo/fetus would be treated as "medical waste", and the rule says they can't be treated as medical waste.

Also when your pet dies, you can legally bury it in your backyard. It has never been legal to take a dead fetus home and bury it in your backyard.

Cremation has gotten just as expensive as burials because the demand for them has increased.

Still wondering if a non-profit can be setup to handle this and the disposal (ala burial at sea which the Neptune Society does) in a way which makes this nothing more than a checkbox and signature for the woman.

I'm hoping the courts will step in and stop this nonsense. However, I'm trying to think ahead on the off chance... I'm not up for assuming anything these days, especially with these jokers in charge.

L-

I read an article about this recently, but haven't tried to find the link. It was like a forest environment. Is it a body farm???

Bodies are not buried, not embalmed - just allowed the decompose as nature takes its toll.

That's a donation to science...

http://www.txstate.edu/anthropology/facts/labs/farf.html

That might be an interesting legal alternative as well, though they would make a law forbidding the acceptance by a State University. Still, might there be a lab which can be setup to study fetal tissue?

L-

bodies lying here and there. It is a body farm run by the Univ of Tenn for research on how the body decomposes.

a law that says you can leave a baby at a hospital or fire station, perhaps you can just leave the fetus there for them to bury!

really. what is the supposed point of this?

but do they give a supposedly reasonable reason?

miscarriage is a spontanious abortion.

Pence passed the same law in Indiana and it also included miscarriages but it was knocked down by a Federal judge. Great site started by the women of Indiana - used to be Periods of Pence now Periods for Politicians.

https://www.facebook.com/REALP4P/

"Following criticism from medical providers, the state’s Health and Human Services Commission clarified that the requirement does not apply to miscarriages or abortions that take place at home. It also does not require birth or death certificates to be filed, to maintain confidentiality."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/11/29/despite-months-of-outcry-texas-will-require-aborted-fetustes-to-be-cremated-or-buried/

separate countries. I have a list of states I will never travel to, visit, vacation or anything. I won't even stay over in them if I can avoid it when traveling.

friggin' list of states and companies keeps getting longer and longer, might as well stay at home, lol

I hoped someday to drive across the country coast to coast. Looks like that dream is over. I guess I'll be going to Europe more if I travel. I refuse to go to those blood red states ever again.

strangeness about them, sometimes cities too.

the women, the fetuses, themselves, for public example, or their desire to control?

I love to mess with their tiny little minds.

Texas is a special kind of fucked up.

This just adds to the already great shame I feel for my state.

Texas just set the stage for a religious showdown. It goes like this:


"I refuse to bury the fetus because of religious reasons. Exodus 21:22 very clearly says that causing the death of a fetus is a property crime. A fetus is "property" not human. A cemetery is a place for burying human bodies only, not property. If it were, I could dispose of my old couch there. I believe in the Bible, so that settles it."

Of course some Texas idiot would take it to court and this is where the fun begins. Some pharmacists don't want to sell the pill because of religious reasons, and they can get out of it under that aegis, to use the same reasoning. No doubt a savvy attorney will get a anti abortionist on the stand and get them to admit that their belief is based upon their religion, and Bingo! The judge will then be forced to rule what is a "True Christian" - now they are defining what is religion and what is not and worse, whose interpretation of the Bible is "Correct"..

Somebody in Texas, please take this stupid law to court. This could be very interesting....

to determine whether there has been abortion or miscarriage, and then fault finding and punishment for women who have failed to complete every pregnancy?

so it's already being cremated.

I guess these morons want some preacher to get a cut for mumbling over it.

Requirements to give it a name, mark the grave, file something resembling a birth certificate, declare its religion, and so on.

Funeral homes should refuse to cooperate. Hospitals should refuse to turn over remains.

Let the goddam attorney general jail a few funeral home owners and hospital directors and watch what happens.

n/t

State and Local laws never would allow grinding up any medical waste or stuff like slaughterhouse waste and "discharging to a sewer system"

It's just a way to punish women and claim they care about the deceased fetus, but it's a total lie. I had a miscarriage at 17, at 2 months into the pregnancy. my parents didn't know I was pregnant and would have sent me away to a "home for wayward (pregnant) girls" which was really a religious prison. I was home alone, cramped really bad all day then finally passed it in the toilet. It was really like just a very heavy period with clots. Do you think I was about to go fishing in the blood soup, oh hell no. Did I cry, hell yes. I didn't want the baby, but was sad to see the life ended before it really began, sad to see all I had left of my first love gone. There is no way in the world any woman should have to deal with that. It's just totally barbaric and cruel. Most miscarriages occur between 2-3 months so the young women would have to go fishing through the bloody mess to see if there was a fetus in there or just big clots. Sorry to be graphic, but I've faced this and it was so awful. I did wonder if I had really been pregnant, but by that time, it didn't matter because I wasn't anymore. Now, if the baby is 6 months old when it passed, this law wouldn't be so bad, but with no lower age limit, it's damn heinous and repulsive.

A miscarriage is an abortion.

Will conservative women want their names in the news for such a sad event?

We do nothing but whine.
Nothing the republican party is doing will reduce abortion!!!!!! Also consider that outlawing abortion will NOT stop or reduce abortion. I am old and I remember when abortion was illegal.
The things Democrats have done DO reduce abortion.
Free birth control for all Americans would radically reduce abortion!!
Obama care has reduced abortion.
Texas took funding away from PP. Maternal death rate in Texas has skyrocketed. Is that the plan. Republicans are killing mothers. Go ahead and say it out loud. Please say it!!! I demand you say it out loud.

If we all sit around doing nothing and letting republicans rule the conversation we will lose.
We have the high ground. Open your pie holes and scream.
I am a 60 year old fat old white guy and I am outraged that Democrats do not rule this conversation.
Me I want to reduce abortion. What do republicans want???

They want to, so let them.

Will they prosecute her for murder?

Texas House of Representatives
P.O. Box 2910
Austin, Texas 78768-2910

Texas Senate
1200 Congress Ave
Austin, TX 78701

Send them your used tampons and kotex.


Fuck these people and everyone that supports them.

of those legislative chambers.

Sorry, that was the most civilized thing I could think of to say about this. Un-fking-believeable.

yup

I can't even believe they're trying to pull this shit already. They must be stopped.

Nice choice of effective dates, too. It's the official beginning of the Trumpmare. It is truly sad when personal rights become political.

The law exempts women who abort or miscarry at home, after all. If a woman starts to miscarry at home, but knows she may be forced to pay for funeral services if she goes to a hospital for help, she might stay at home and hope that the failing pregnancy works itself out on its own.

There’s already significant evidence that a large number of Texas women are turning to DIY abortion methods rather than going to a doctor. The most popular method is using misoprostol, a drug that can induce miscarriage, either bought over the counter in neighboring Mexico or bought from a black-market dealer who buys in bulk and brings it over the border. While misoprostol is relatively safe and effective, women who take it still run the danger of an incomplete miscarriage and infection, which is why doctors would prefer it be taken under medical supervision.

But if going to a doctor means you need to hire funeral services for what looks, to the naked eye, exactly like the tissue from a heavy menstrual period, many women may be tempted to go the black-market route.

It appears there’s no limit on how bizarre Texas conservatives are willing to go, if it means making abortion more fraught or miserable for women. Now the anti-abortion crusaders are willing to punish women who suffer unwanted miscarriages, if it gets the zealots closer to their goal.

those facilities which provide abortion services-- since they can't constitutionally make it outright illegal.

for these remains. Once a year, just like the do for the bodies willed to medical schools.

The Satanic Temple is responding by using a tactic we usually only see with the Christian Right. They’re arguing that the new funeral rule goes against their religious belief in the “inviolability of one’s body.”

“Texas health officials are baldly imposing the view that the fetal tissue is elevated to personhood — a religious opinion that conflicts with our own. If Texas is going to treat the disposal of fetal tissue differently from the disposal of any other biological material, in contradiction to our own religious beliefs, they need to present a compelling state interest for doing so. Of course, there is no such state interest, and it is obvious to everyone that the demand for fetal tissue burial is a punitive measure imposed by sadistic theocrats.” said TST spokesperson, Lucien Greaves. “These officials deem harassment an acceptable form of pushing their misguided religious agendas.”

The Satanists are essentially using the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) law to say that the state can’t compel them to do anything that violates their religious beliefs unless there’s a really good reason for it. (It’s the same argument Hobby Lobby owners successfully used to get out of providing comprehensive health insurance — including birth control — for their employees.)

The Satanic Temple used the same argument last year when fighting a Missouri law that said women had to wait 72 (unnecessary) hours between her initial appointment with a doctor to have an abortion and getting the procedure done. That lawsuit was thrown out in August, on grounds of standing, because the plaintiff was no longer pregnant.

This time, if the Satanists can finding someone who has proper standing, they’ll sue the state. Let’s hope Lucifer is on their side.

Fuck you, Dan Patrick. Fuck you, Greg Abbott. And fuck anybody else who backs these odious new regulations.