Police kill armed teen student at Texas school
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45870968/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/BROWNSVILLE, Texas Police shot and killed an armed 15-year-old student at a middle school in South Texas on Wednesday morning. No one else was injured.
Brownsville police detective J.J. Trevino said police got a call about 8 a.m. Wednesday that there was an individual with a weapon at Cummings Middle School. They found the 8th-grade student in a hallway and shot him.
The shooting remains under investigation. Brownsville is 280 miles south of San Antonio on the southern tip of Texas.
WingDinger
(3,690 posts)boppers
(16,588 posts)BenYehuda
(17 posts)Simple question...did the boy try to shoot at them?
barbtries
(28,799 posts)was he just standing and holding a gun and they walked up and killed him? the story makes it sound like that. an 8th grader. damn
eta - read the article. they say that the kid "engaged" the police. maybe it was necessary.
atreides1
(16,079 posts)barbtries
(28,799 posts)their wording.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Islandlife
(212 posts)Very appropriate.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Seemed as though a predicative question was asked rather than a conclusion jumped...
But I suppose we do what we do.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)However, either action may constitute justification for use of deadly force. Shooting someone who brandishes a weapon at you, and who subsequently dies as a result, is generally not regarded as murder.
Here's another article that includes information about the alleged brandishing:
http://www.charter.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9S27OA00%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1011
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)No explanation as to what that means exactly, though.
The Doctor.
(17,266 posts)He might have used a few big words what with that uppity middle-school education.
No wonder the cop felt threatened.
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)He was reported by administrators at the school to the police for having a firearm on campus.
At the time of the shooting children are saying they were in their homeroom classes already, and they heard perhaps two or three gunshots.
No reason has been given for why he was still in the hallway.
There's no explanation as to how he got the gun past security on campus as of yet.
There's been no further mention of the other child they took into custody for questioning.
That's pretty much where this is at at the moment. In a couple of weeks no one will even be giving a second thought to this event anymore other than the boy's family, his friends and the police who shot him.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)minavasht
(413 posts)clarify what you understand by "tried to shoot at them"?
Held the gun in hand?
Pointed the gun at them?
Pulled the trigger?
At which point would YOU shoot to stop him?
BenYehuda
(17 posts)"...the boy...did not threaten any students or teachers, and no one else was hurt."
...those cops should be fired...they were never FIRED AT.......THEY SHOULD BE TRIED FOR MURDER ...eos.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Or a bean bag gun?
cali
(114,904 posts)it's sadly understandable.
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)Not that anything's been formally released. It's just a possibility being discussed he was either going to shoot a rival or was looking to intimidate one into not shooting him.
vminfla
(1,367 posts)If the student was 13 or 14 in the eighth grader, I would question the veracity of the police officers actions a little more. Given that he was 15 and held back, there is a higher probability that this student was a troublemaker.
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)For all we know his birthday could have fallen late in the year and he's was only one grade behind. Which isn't that uncommon. Or he could have had a learning disability, or any number of other issues could be involved. We don't know.
Pretty much all we know for sure is the boy is dead. He was shot by the police. He had a gun in his possession on a middle school campus.
Time will fill in the missing details. Yet no matter how this evolves it's a tragedy one so young lost their life over whatever circumstances led up to this shooting.
vminfla
(1,367 posts)He was held back at least one year, maybe two.
The Brownsville school in question does have a reputation for gang activity
He had a gun
He engaged, in some way, armed police officers.
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)vminfla
(1,367 posts)If true, that was a very foolish move on the part of the 15 year old.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)pocoloco
(3,180 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"uh no..."
What precisely makes this scenario a bad opportunity to use a taser?
hack89
(39,171 posts)you are asking a policeman to get pretty close to someone with a gun. He could be shot before he was in taser range.
provis99
(13,062 posts)those are even less dangerous than slingshots or yoyos.
hack89
(39,171 posts)it is very hard to tell the difference.
provis99
(13,062 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)bluevoter4life
(787 posts)I really don't think you're going to pay attention to what model it is. In law enforcement, a .45 is the same as a pellet game, which is the same as a painted water pistol. If you pull out any of the three, you will be shot. Period.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Real firearm or not?
How about this one?
Or this?
How about this one?
Or this?
Now add to the scenario that you are a police officer responding to a call about an armed remedial 15-year-old student at a middle school. The kid points any of the above at you. You have about .75 seconds to decide whether or not to shoot him with your known real gun.
How did you do?
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Tasers give one or two shots, and law-enforcement models have a maximum range of about 35 feet.
I personally would never deploy a taser against a lethal threat, such as someone pointing a firearm at me.
"don't bring a taser to a gunfight" comes to mind.
Tasers have very short range, under 20 ft, they require solid contact of the two probes in the body (i.e. if he had heavy clothing, it will be ineffective), most have only one shot (if you miss there is no time to reload).
Orrex
(63,216 posts)Who's with me?
vminfla
(1,367 posts)Let's do it the Nancy Grace way.
Ian David
(69,059 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Seriously, if you want well-researched, factual information, tune into Fox "News"
...
....
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I propose rather that we discuss, wonder, consider and speculate-- a most benign form of interaction; and then form conclusions afterwards-..
Orrex
(63,216 posts)Ready! Fire! Aim!
treestar
(82,383 posts)killer assholes.
mainstreetonce
(4,178 posts)If he aimed at police I have no problem with them firing.
I want to know how the student got the gun. If a family member allowed access to a weapon that person should be in jail for a long time.
Won't happen in Texas.
crim son
(27,464 posts)Firing to kill, no.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)You fire with the intent to stop a deadly attack. Proper training teaches you to stop shooting once the attack has been neutralized.
If the attacker happens to die, that is unfortunate but it should never have been the intent of the defensive shooter.
vminfla
(1,367 posts)No credible training class in the world would teach their students how to "wing" someone or shoot them in the leg.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Nobody teaches students to aim for the head, or to keep firing until the attacker is dead.
No credible training class in the world would teach their students how to "wing" someone or shoot them in the leg.
Correct, because trying to do that is likely to result in a missed shot and failure to STOP the attacker.
Another thing they teach you in self-defense classes is how to behave when the police arrive after you have used deadly force in self-defense - Generally keep your mouth shut, don't brag, don't say anything that could be inferred as intent to kill the attacker.
If you haven't taken a self-defense course, I recommend it. They can be real eye-openers.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)Firing a lethal weapon at someone and hoping that you only injure them is ridiculous.
When you shoot someone, you aim at center of mass, as this is the best way to insure hitting and stopping your target. While not shooting to kill per se, you never shoot to wound.
Orrex
(63,216 posts)Sometimes I shoot to inculcate.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)but IF (big if, of course) a student was brandishing in a middle school, the police did the correct thing. Pointing a weapon at police is suicide, period.
DaveJ
(5,023 posts)"Just" being the operative term, killing the kid with the pellet gun.
Going above and beyond would have been figuring out a non-lethal outcome, for instance shooting him in a nonlethal part of the body, but they are trained to aim for center of mass, just doing their jobs.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)What part of "pellet gun that looked like a real handgun" do you not understand?
Are the lives of police officers not worth something?
This is obviously a case of "suicide by cop."
DaveJ
(5,023 posts)I'm sure they had bullet proof vests, shields, strategic position, and years of training, against a 15 yr old kid, who I dunno, was probably surrounded at that point and had no access to other kids at that point. They were just doing their jobs, I'm not saying they did anything wrong, but they did not do anything 'great'. Just my opinion, assuming I'm allowed to have one.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Do you think they enjoyed it?
How do you think they feel about it RIGHT NOW?
Could you do a better job?
octothorpe
(962 posts)and the bullet strayed and hit a student or teacher... Would you say "oh, well at least they tried to wound the gunman"? At the time, they had no idea it was a pellet gun, what if they shot and missed (since they are aiming for a smaller target) and he started firing at the police and his stray bullets found a civilian? The police officers would have totally been at fault for the deaths and injuries that might have resulted. That would have been negligence on all the officers fault if they took that route and something happened to a bystander. Bullets can go through walls and windows.
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)Seems to me that's kind of a small target with a higher chance of a miss as well.
I'm not a gun person though, so I could be wrong.
octothorpe
(962 posts)Where was this reported at?
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)But here's a quick link to another news report I just read.
His mother, Noralva Gonzalez, showed off a photo on her phone of a beaming Jaime in his drum major uniform standing with his band instructors. Then she flipped through three close-up photos she took of bullet wounds in her son's body, including one in the back of his head.
http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/texas/student-shot-by-cop-had-had-pellet-gun
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I suspect the head shot was fired last, and hit the unfortunate young man as he was falling down from the first two shots.
He really should have dropped the weapon when he was told to. Or maybe he shouldn't have brandished it when police were there. Or he COULD have kept the gun hidden and not displayed it to anyone.
Or maybe he shouldn't have brought it to school. He made a series of very poor choices.
backwoodsbob
(6,001 posts)come to my house and stand 40 yards away and let me shoot you with one of my pellet guns.
IF you survive I will call an ambulance.
elaborate on the type of training you have?
How many times have you had to shoot somebody in nonlethal parts of their bodies?
How many times did it work?
LetTimmySmoke
(1,202 posts)He brandished the gun at the officers. At that point, it's either his life or the life of the officers or other innocents in the area. He made his choice, and the cops did what they had to do.
crim son
(27,464 posts)Darnit, what a silly mistake.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Never bring a pellet gun to a gun fight.
Turbineguy
(37,343 posts)it's still a tragedy. 15 years old. What a waste.
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)as a result of the consequences of not reacting swiftly.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)Another lesson in 'Living in a Gun Culture'. Respond in kind. Shoot first....
.
Fourier
(27 posts)unkachuck
(6,295 posts)....another 'death by cop', this time, a child....shoot to kill!
....couldn't these well-trained system thugs use less lethal means, or maybe, shoot to wound?